Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[Nedsk]

No, it is you who is incorrect.

lol - did you actually read AND understand the verse you quoted? Here, look at it again below. Do you see in it the "judgment seat of Christ"? It doesn't say the judgment seat of works that judgment is to be rendered to everyone relative to their works because there is no judgment seat of works and so no one can be saved by their works. Instead, it says "judgment seat of Christ" - that judgment will be rendered to everyone relative to Christ and all He represents as THE Savior - whether their sins have been forgiven by/through Him by God's grace - the good - or be judged by a trust in their works - the evil- which will be the cause of their judgment, not an escape from it.

[2Co 5:10 ESV] 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

And here is the judgment:

[Heb 10:29 ESV] 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

By the verse you've chosen, you've managed to disprove your own point.

What does paul say we will by judged on?

 

[Nedsk]

Righteous Works flow from, are a product and result of righteous faith
Evil Works flow from, are a product and result of evil faith.

Faith-alone justification manifesto:
We're built for good works, and but we still do evil works.
We want to do good works because of the holy spirit, but we still do evil works because of the devil.

But, by grace-alone through faith-alone apart from our works, we are saved and justified forever and ever and ever, unconditionally...

Jesus Christ the righteous justifies righteous works. The unrighteous Christ justifies unrighteous works.

Are works a choice?

 

[Nedsk]

Well that's fine and dandy that you have been down that long road but that doesn't mean that you actually learned anything as evidence by your continuous support that works that Jesus did did not cover you and instead you still need to do something to be saved you are denying the work of Jesus Christ on the cross on behalf of you it's a pretty simple thing

I am saved

Okay first if you actually knew what the Bible said you would understand that I am using the scripture in the text of my sentences I'm not breaking out dropping the chapter in verse because I've read about and I know what they say

The fact is what it really appears to me is you just like attacking my position and you don't understand it cuz I've said it several times but I'll say it again yes I am saved by faith alone because God gave me the grace to have the faith and it was through his works that I'm safe he did it all we had nothing to do with our Salvation except for to choose to follow Jesus Christ and believe he is who he is

If you can't see that in Scripture then nobody can tell you and I am not going to hand you the fish you're going to be forced to learn how to fish because I don't want jerks with an attitude in the fold it's called protecting the flock

Now having said that I do recall posting quite a lengthy response with five or six versus completely point of that that you just dismissed so obviously you are the definition of stupid which actually for all intents and purposes means you are unable to learn.

, I even gave you an out by suggesting hey if you believe that works are required and hey that's what you're doing them great and thus as for me my faith was enough for my salvation yet I do produce fruit and works so even by your definition I'm doing works but you didn't take that step out what you did is decide to try to trash me yet again and I'm getting kind of tired of it you either accept it or you don't you don't keep badgering people that they're wrong and slandering because in face to face would get you punched

You assume I have something to learn from you. You need to show that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. Why would I listen to you otherwise when I can read Scripture myself. Telling me I'm incorrect doesn't mean I'm incorrect. You get that right? Lie if you have to.

 

[rogerg]

What does paul say we will by judged on?

Make your point. I don't feel like playing games.

 

[mailmandan]

If faith alone is sufficient for salvation then why bother saying Abraham's faith was completed by works?

If faith alone is insufficient for salvation then, why was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 prior to faith being complete by works many years later? Also, why did the apostle Paul say that God imputes righteousness apart from works in Romans 4:6 if faith alone is insufficient?

 

[Nedsk]

Make your point. I don't feel like playing games.

I did by asking you a question.

 

[Nedsk]

If faith alone is insufficient for salvation then, why was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 prior to faith being complete by works many years later? Also, why did the apostle Paul say that God imputes righteousness apart from works in Romans 4:6 if faith alone is insufficient?

What does righteous mean? Does it mean salvation?

 

[mailmandan]

What does righteous mean? Does it mean salvation?

Righteousness is linked together with salvation.

 

[rogerg]

I did by asking you a question.

That's absurd. Answer it yourself.

 

[mailmandan]

Matthew 25:46 - And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Nedsk]

That's absurd. Answer it yourself.

Why won't you answer it? It's a legitimate question.

 

[rogerg]

Why won't you answer it? It's a legitimate question.

First, because I don't accept homework assignments; second, because doing the research might just be beneficial and help you to at least learn some of the gospel. Let us know what you find out.

 

[Nedsk]

First, because I don't accept homework assignments; second, because doing the research might just be beneficial and help you to at least learn some of the gospel. Let us know what you find out.

Lol figured.

 

[rogerg]

Lol figured.

Yeah, me too

 

[Nedsk]

Yeah, me too

A simple question that you are afraid to answer. Poor thing

 

[rogerg]

A simple question that you are afraid to answer. Poor thing

When (and if) you can actually partake in an intelligent dialogue then post it, until then, quit wasting our time with nonsense.
This thread should be reserved for serious biblical discussion, not the drivel you spew forth.

 

[legion]

You assume I have something to learn from you. You need to show that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. Why would I listen to you otherwise when I can read Scripture myself. Telling me I'm incorrect doesn't mean I'm incorrect. You get that right? Lie if you have to.

Ok you are literally stupid. I used scripture, I met your conditions, and you are unable to see this and learn. Apparently.

 

[LeeLoving]

Are you trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or are you also trusting in your performance/works for salvation? In regard to how we live, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10) We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:22-26) No supplements needed.

Works are not merely limited to specific works of the law.

Romans 4:1 - What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

You seem to have more faith in your best efforts to live in accordance with what Jesus taught then you do in His death, burial and resurrection as the means of your salvation. Living in accordance with what Jesus taught is the result of becoming a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) after being saved through faith. We don't simply conjure up obedience from an unregenerate heart. Many people who are "religious, but not right with God" will find that out the hard way. (Matthew 7:22-23)

This is problematic. You really don't understand what this means? What exactly are you trusting in for salvation?

By trusting in His words, it sounds to me like you are trusting in your best efforts to obey everything that Jesus taught as the means of your salvation (works salvation) instead of trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? *The answer to this question will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in for salvation.

Hey, thanks for responding to my posts. Sorry if I came off as rude at all.

I just believe Jesus' words in Matthew 7:21-24 and therefore see it as a requirement to follow his teachings in the sermon on the mount for salvation. He is clear to me that he is saying only those who follow his sayings will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I think you might see it differently because you say the will of the Father that Jesus is speaking about here is to believe in the Son. I don't see it that way, if you read on in verse 24 he correlates the will of the Father with his sayings.

I trust in Jesus alone for salvation in that I trust his death for my sin, but I also trust in him as who he is, the Christ (Messiah) and believe that he was given words by God to speak. So I take him very seriously when he says only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I believe eternal life comes through believing in him, but believing in him completely, that he is the Christ, and that he told the truth.

 

[mailmandan]

Hey, thanks for responding to my posts. Sorry if I came off as rude at all.

Not rude at all.

I just believe Jesus' words in Matthew 7:21-24 and therefore see it as a requirement to follow his teachings in the sermon on the mount for salvation.

So, where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you have sufficiently followed ALL of His teachings and now the Lord will be able to save you based on the merits of your performance? Is that salvation through faith or salvation by works? You seem to be trusting in your obedience/works (follow his teachings in the sermon on the mount) for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone.

He is clear to me that he is saying only those who follow his sayings will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. Matthew 7:17 - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I think you might see it differently because you say the will of the Father that Jesus is speaking about here is to believe in the Son. I don't see it that way, if you read on in verse 24 he correlates the will of the Father with his sayings.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. You seem to be confusing God's will for us to BECOME saved (believing in Jesus for salvation) with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved. (following His teachings)

I trust in Jesus alone for salvation in that I trust his death for my sin, but I also trust in him as who he is, the Christ (Messiah) and believe that he was given words by God to speak. So I take him very seriously when he says only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I believe eternal life comes through believing in him, but believing in him completely, that he is the Christ, and that he told the truth.

As soon as you "add" trusting in your performance/works for salvation you are no longer trusting in Jesus alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[Gideon300]

Hey, thanks for responding to my posts. Sorry if I came off as rude at all.

I just believe Jesus' words in Matthew 7:21-24 and therefore see it as a requirement to follow his teachings in the sermon on the mount for salvation. He is clear to me that he is saying only those who follow his sayings will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I think you might see it differently because you say the will of the Father that Jesus is speaking about here is to believe in the Son. I don't see it that way, if you read on in verse 24 he correlates the will of the Father with his sayings.

I trust in Jesus alone for salvation in that I trust his death for my sin, but I also trust in him as who he is, the Christ (Messiah) and believe that he was given words by God to speak. So I take him very seriously when he says only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven. I believe eternal life comes through believing in him, but believing in him completely, that he is the Christ, and that he told the truth.

The word "salvation" has become Christian code for going to heaven when you die. And that is an extremely shallow understanding.

Lord Jesus said that we must be born again even to see the kingdom of God. The sermon on the mount obviously is perfect teaching, but there is one problem. It does not say how to live the life that God is pleased with.

I was blessed in that I knew nothing of Christian doctrine. I'd never read the Bible. I knew Jesus as an historical figure, from Christmas and Easter and forced attendance at church. I was born again by accepting that I am a sinner and the death and resurrection of Jesus as full payment for my sins. I could not explain it but I knew that my sins were forgiven and that I had changed. I could not follow the teachings of Christ because I did not know them.

My experience is far from unique. Especially these days, there is a great lack of knowledge among unbelievers. So to say that we are saved, in the sense of sins forgiven and being born again, by following the requirements of the teachings of Jesus is incorrect. The thief on the cross certainly did not follow the teaching of the sermon on the mount.

Because the word "salvation" has lost so much meaning, I prefer to use the word "deliverance". Luke 4:18 is the gospel of the kingdom. It is the gospel of deliverance from what binds the sinner and keeps him from the abundant life that Jesus came to give.

There are two deliverances according to the word of God. The first is from the penalty of sin. We have the assurance of sins forgiven and being made right with God. It is the starting point of our spiritual journey. Our spirit man is made alive and we become new creations in Christ, not by anything that we do but by God Himself. The second deliverance is the "salvation of the soul", which Peter calls the "goal of your faith". (1 Peter 1:9). This refers to the process of being delivered that Jesus spoke of in Luke 4:18.

Everyone comes to Christ with problems and attitudes that God wants to change. It is not because He is mad at us, it is because those things are a curse and a blight. We don't always realise the effects of the problems we suffer. Some are immediately obvious. I was borderline alcoholic and it did not take me long to realise that it was a serious bondage. But for other problems, we may have carried them for so long we do not realise that they are harmful.

The Christian life is a marathon. We run the race that God sets before us, often stumbling, falling, failing and encountering obstacles. As we grow in Christ, we will begin to change. We may not see the change, but God does and so do others.

God leads us by His Spirit. Tell me where in the Bible that says I had to quit competitive table tennis. God told me to do that. There are many issues of life that cannot be determined by a Bible verse. We learn God's ways as we get to know Him. And that is the definition of eternal life, knowing God and knowing Jesus. (John 17:3)

The saddest people are those who accepted Christ but who are reluctant to change. Too many want to cling to their old way of life. Partly, this is due to a watered down gospel that is all too common today. Such people may be saved, but they miss out on God's best for them. And those people may be left out of God's kingdom. It does not mean they go to hell, but it does mean that they do not enjoy the rewards and blessings that are for those who carry their cross and deny themselves.

The one short life we have now is all we get to prepare for eternity. The wise do not waste it.