Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[ATG]

I am not passing judgement not yet anyway.

I am trying to understand what you said below.

ATG said:
And the judgment of the law of Christ remains the same as that of the law of Moses (though the points of law are not all the same): Anyone transgressing any of the law is guilty of all the law:

Jas 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Fair enough. I tried to be clear, that the principle of law does not change with God, even though the points of His law have changed from that of Moses in the OT, to that of Christ in the NT.

As Jesus Christ Himself remains the same yesterday and today, so does His principle of law: Transgressing any part of the law violates the whole law. A transgressor is guilty of all the law, not only the part violated.

A fornicator is as guilty before God as a murderer. There is no moral relativism with God.

God rebukes any belief that one sinner transgressing His law, is any better or worse than any other sinner transgressing His law.

And so, any believer in Him transgressing His law, is as guilty as any unbeliever doing the same thing, or any devil also believing in Him:

Jas 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Inquisitor]

ATG said:
And the judgment of the law of Christ remains the same as that of the law of Moses (though the points of law are not all the same): Anyone transgressing any of the law is guilty of all the law:

Jas 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Fair enough. I tried to be clear, that the principle of law does not change with God, even though the points of His law have changed from that of Moses in the OT, to that of Christ in the NT.

As Jesus Christ Himself remains the same yesterday and today, so does His principle of law: Transgressing any part of the law violates the whole law. A transgressor is guilty of all the law, not only the part violated.

A fornicator is as guilty before God as a murderer. There is no moral relativism with God.

God rebukes any belief that one sinner transgressing His law, is any better or worse than any other sinner transgressing His law.

And so, any believer in Him transgressing His law, is as guilty as any unbeliever doing the same thing, or any devil also believing in Him:

Jas 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Your aware that Gentiles are not under the law?

 

[TruthDefender]

The law of Moses was written by Moses to the children of Israel not to transgress. The law of Christ is written by His apostles to the children of God not to transgress. And so, what do the Scriptures say of the law of Christ?

1 Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…

Gal 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness...drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

These are points of law of Christ called works of the flesh, that if anyone is transgressing, he is the unrighteous that shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And the judgment of the law of Christ remains the same as that of the law of Moses (though the points of law are not all the same): Anyone transgressing any of the law is guilty of all the law:

Jas 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

-"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
Galatians 2:16 NKJV

*-"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

-"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:4 NKJV

-"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18 NKJV

 

[Gideon300]

James says more than just faith without works is dead. He says, works complete faith. Now if thats true, and it must be if it's in scripture, faith alone cannot be sufficient for salvation because that which is already complete doesn't need completion. And if faith was complete without works, then it alone, would be sufficient.

You ignore what God's word really says. We are not saved by our faith. We are saved by grace. Faith simply receives the gift. We can add nothing to our salvation and take nothing away from the finished work of Christ, His death, resurrection, ascension and glorification. It was finished 2,000 years ago.

Faith makes that grace available to us. "If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”" Romans 4:2

 

[EddieM]

Eph 2:8 is used by many Christians to preach a gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone without works; Which some say is justification by faith apart from any works that we may be doing at the time, whether good or evil. So what does the Scripture say?

To clarify Eph 2.8, Paul is simply saying that the doctrine of "Salvation" (getting in) has nothing to do with man's works/behavior/actions. It is solely on the basis of man's faith that one is saved. James 2 is arguing that there are two different Justifications. A man is justified (vindicated) by his actions before man (once he is in), and he is justified (vindicated) by his works before man.

Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.

Omniscient Beings do not have faith. God can be faithful, but not have faith. Faith denotes a lack of knowledge; God does not lack knowledge or anything.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (conceptual antecedent) not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That not of ourselves, is that faith that is of God, and not of ourselves. And so we see the division made between the two. The same faith is not being spoken of throughout this verse of Scripture.

Only that faith by grace is the gift of God, but that faith of man is by his own will alone.

"The Faith that is of God" is not a correct translation. As I said before, omniscient Beings do not have faith. Nowhere does God give us faith to be saved. The translation should be "The faith in God...."

Now, having restricted the use of Faith to 'in God' there is, however, a faith that God gives some believers. This is faith that God gives some believers to demonstrate that God can always be trusted, even in tough circumstances, some of us as believers are given to man by God to demonstrate that God guides the believer at times (this faith has nothing to do with salvation). Most believers don't have this gift of faith, it seems to only go to a small group of believers so that these believers can encourage other believers to be trusting and brave in difficult circumstances.

But now by grace through Jesus' gift of faith, we cease doing our own works of faith, and instead can by God's faith, do His good will forever:

For salvation/justification nobody is given faith to accept Christ.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I live by the faithfulness of the Son of God...
I live by the faithfulness in the Son of God...

 

[TruthDefender]

James says more than just faith without works is dead. He says, works complete faith. Now if thats true, and it must be if it's in scripture, faith alone cannot be sufficient for salvation because that which is already complete doesn't need completion. And if faith was complete without works, then it alone, would be sufficient.

Could you please give Scripture?

 

[TruthDefender]

You ignore what God's word really says. We are not saved by our faith. We are saved by grace. Faith simply receives the gift. We can add nothing to our salvation and take nothing away from the finished work of Christ, His death, resurrection, ascension and glorification. It was finished 2,000 years ago.

Faith makes that grace available to us. "If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”" Romans 4:2

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
EPHESIANS 2:8


Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
ROMANS 3:28

 

[ATG]

And you don’t ever sin so therefore you need no advocate. We get it. We also get that you are a complete liar according to scripture.

And you always sin so therefore you need repentance. God get's it. He also gets that anyone is lying according to Scripture, that anyone is justified with Him while sinning without repentance.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

[ATG]

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re born again to do good and not evil

Exactly. All men are created in the image of God to do good and not evil. But if any man sins, we have an advocate to be born again in Jesus Christ's image to do good, and not evil.

If any man continues sinning unto the grave, then there is no more repentance nor newbirth to do any good.

 

[ATG]

Your misconception of "faith alone" is delusional.

Are you justified with God by your faith-alone while doing evil?

Your refusal to answer your own faith-alone justification is educational.

 

[ATG]

You have the biggest posts which makes a reply very difficult.

What does a "conversion to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the covenant and law of Moses" mean?

What "covenant"?

What do you mean by "and law of Moses"?

You have the biggest blind spots with in Scripture.

Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Now, if you acknowledge you are only a babe with Scripture, and don't know these primary things, then I'll be glad to teach you. Otherwise, you have some other purpose in such baseless questioning.

 

[ATG]

For someone who claims to have a sinless new nature, you are doing a great job of proving that pride is the one thing you haven't managed to repent of yet. It is pretty clear that your performance hasn't changed your heart, only your ego. I will leave you to your mirror.

For someone who claims to be such a sinner, you are doing a great job of proving that false accusation is one thing you have managed to do. It is pretty clear that your performance has changed your heart, but only hardened it. I will leave you to your dark glass.

Unless of course you come back for more, like a moth to the flame. Adios.

 

[ATG]

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood
and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers,
or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing
some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying,
‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other.

Exactly. Only sinners that repent can walk away justified with God.

The righteous by works alone or faith-alone, have no need to repent of their own sinning to be justified with Christ. And so they continue to walk away self-justified by their own works or faith-alone.

Mar 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Since Jesus comes only to call to repentance, then them that count themselves righteous by their own works or faith-alone, do not hear His call unto repentance, from all sinning and trespassing against God.

 

[ATG]

You still have not stated what the law of Christ is?

You keep talking about what the law of Christ is not.

If you have anymore Scripture for the law of Christ, then say on.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

And you always sin so therefore you need repentance. God get's it. He also gets that anyone is lying according to Scripture, that anyone is justified with Him while sinning without repentance.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

You’re quoting Romans 2, but you missed the punchline in Romans 3:20, which says no one will be justified by the law. Paul didn't write those verses to show how perfect we can be; he wrote them to show that everyone is under sin and needs a Savior.

You need to take off your 19th-century holiness movement glasses and read scripture. The only difference between you and the SDA is that they magnify a day and you magnify self-sanctification. Both are American-made religions. Neither you nor they magnify Christ. You’re not perfect and you never will be in this lifetime. Your imperfection shows clearly in your lack of understanding of plain scripture and other people’s words. You are very immature in your faith, and I pray you finally one day see the truth. I pray you turn away from your pharisaical mindset, drop your pride, and surrender to Christ. God bless

 

[ATG]

You still have not stated what the law of Christ is?

I have already shown some of the Scriptures of what the law of Christ is, point by point.

You keep talking about what the law of Christ is not.

1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

The law of Christ is only for sin and transgression. The law of Christ is not for justification

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,

 

[Dino246]

Are you justified with God by your faith-alone while doing evil?

Your refusal to answer your own faith-alone justification is educational.

Your persistence in asking idiotic questions says much about you.

 

[ATG]

Your aware that Gentiles are not under the law?

I know all men are now under the law of Christ.

You are not aware this is NT law and doctrine of Christ, not OT law of Moses? Are you an OT Jew or proselyte?

 

[ATG]

-"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."

-"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:4 NKJV

No man is justified by keeping the law alone, without faith toward God.

No man is justified by faith-alone, without keeping the law.

No man is justified by keeping the law alone, without faith toward God. No man is justified by faith-alone without keeping the law.

Rom 9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, [

*-"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

No man is under the law of Moses, which is passed away with the old covenant.

-"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18 NKJV

No man keeping the law by faith of Jesus Christ, under the law by transgression and sin.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Anyone transgressing the law of Christ is sinning against God and Christ.

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ps 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

 

[Dino246]

I know all men are now under the law of Christ.

No, only believers in Christ are under the law of Christ.