Apart from the knowledge of good and evil they had no idea what sin was, or that lying was evil. They didn't even know they were naked, or that that was a problem till after Adam ate. Prior to eating of the tree, the only "POSSIBLE" sin was Adam eating of the tree.
Eve did not sin by eating of the tree.
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Don't forget to include what God was referring directly to. He never even thinks of bringing up Eve's eating. She did that because now, with a conscience, she believes she's in violation of what Adfam told her. She thinks it's about that. God is directly asking her, "What is THIS that thou hast done?" What was the "THIS" God is asking her to verify? Did Adam say, "Eve ate of the tree first? No. He could have. What did Adam say, "The woman that Thou gavest to me, gave me to eat and I ate." That's the ONLY thing God is referring to in Eve's judgment. That's it.
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How could they have known anything about lying?Here is my take on Adam and Eve and their first sin in the garden of Eden .
Genesis Ch 2 , V 15 , 16 + 17 . Notice in V 16 that God commanded the man . Notice also that Eve was not created until V 22 , well after God told Adam not to eat of the specific tree . So , who told Eve not to eat of that tree ? Is it reasonable to assume that Adam passed on God's message to Eve ? 1st Corinthians Ch 14 , V 34 + 35 .
When we teach our children not to do things that might harm them , how do we do that ? Do we say to them ; don't ever drink bleach ? No , we say don't touch the bleach .
In V 3 of Ch 3 , Eve says , neither shall ye touch it , lest ye die . Why did Eve say that ? Did she make that bit up herself ? Or is that what Adam said to her when he related God's message to get ? Eve doesn't even refer to the tree as : the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . Maybe Adam didn't tell her that that was what it was called . Why didn't he ? I'm guessing that Adam loved Eve very much , he didn't want her to die , he didn't want her any where near that tree , he didn't tell her what the tree was because he didn't want her to b tempted to know the knowledge of good and evil . Adam was trying to protect Eve but , in doing so , he corrupted and added to God's Word in order to keep Eve from temptation . But it backfired . The very second that Eve touched that tree and didn't die.....what did she think to herself ? Maybe she thought that Adam had made a mistake ? Or mislead her ? Or even lied to her ? Either way , she disobeyed Adams commandment not to touch it and.....she didn't die ! There were no immediate consequences , she didn't die because God never said that if u touch that tree u will die , He said don't eat of it .
But Eve doesn't know that . She only knows what Adam told her and so far , she has touched the tree and hasn't died. Maybe the fact that she didn't die when she touched it makes her think that for some reason Adam had lied to her , why shouldn't she eat of the tree ? It seems fine , totally safe ! Who tells her that if she eats from the tree she will know good and evil ? The serpent does and in that he doesn't lie to her does he ? So far , in Eve's eyes , this serpent has not led her astray . Eve said to him that she's not supposed to touch it or she will die and he says no u won't , she touched it and didn't die . The serpent wasn't lying to her . So , we c how , mishandling the Word of God , even if we seem to ourselves to have good motives , is an extremely dangerous thing to do . Adam was trying to protect Eve but in corrupting God's Word , he allowed the serpent to get a foothold . These r just my thoughts on this subject and I hope I expressed them clearly , I'm never confident that I've done so
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so? they didn't know what dying was either, yet God held both Adam and Eve accountable for both Adam and Eve having eaten ... or, according to your understanding ... Adam died for having eaten and Eve died for having given to Adam to eat.
we don't know whether they knew they were naked or not naked ... what we know is they were naked and not ashamed.
Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Eve knew not to eat ... she even told the serpent "lest we die".
While "lest we die" is reduces the certainty of "thou shalt surely die" to a possibility, the fact still remains that Eve knew something would happen (she would die) if she ate of the tree.
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She told the serpent that because that's what Adam told her .
Yeah. There's some unspoken agenda with the OP. Also a lack of understanding God's order and character.
This requires wisdom.
Adam was made in the likeness and image of God. This imbued Adam with certain behavioral characteristics and tendencies. Love, for example: God is love; so Adam would have certainly told Woman (her name before the fall) the commands of their Father.
Sin did not enter the world through Woman's act of eating the fruit because Adam was the head of Woman. As I said earlier, had Adam refused the fruit he could have redeemed Woman through his righteousness. But, because he ate the fruit Woman gave him, his actions were accounted to him as sin.
The law of love between God the Father and a son of God (as was Adam, Luke chapter 3) is "Do what I tell you and show you". "A son can only do what He sees His Father doing" and "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". By this, a son of God is bound, by love, to the words of his or her father (a son of God is neither male nor female). The gospel is about being given the right to represent the Father in the earth, as did Christ perfectly.
So, did Eve sin? Yes.
Did her sin condemn the world? No. She was not the head of Adam. Adam could have shown mercy as her head.
Did Adam's sin condemn the world? Yes. Then why did God not show him mercy?
He did, but the way of mercy was revealed much later in Christ Jesus.
All we know is what God told Adam ... we do not know what Adam told Eve because God's Word is silent on that point.
When Eve responded to the serpent, she said "God hath said".
Eve did not say "Adam said".
And I'm not saying Adam did not tell her what you and others claim/believe ... all I'm saying is we don't know what Adam told Eve.
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No. Disagree.
There is assumptions and twists added to this understanding that are not true.
Gal 5:8-9
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Adam could not pay for eves sin and be resurrected. The penalty of sin is eternal death. For Adam to pay the price he needed to die eternally..
God said no to the specific tree "the tree of knowledge of good and evil".
Gen 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Regardless of the error (touch it), Eve understood that God had said "you will die if you eat of it"
She had a choice, obey God or disobey God. It is not a sin to be tempted.
Eve sinned when She disobeyed God.
Adam sinned when he disobeyed God.
They made their choice.
Well, I suppose you can say it is in accordance with my understanding. According to your understanding, did God give commands to bot Adam and Eve together?
According to your understanding, did God give the command not to eat to Adam alone, before Eve was created? You know, "To Adam alone", not to Eve?
According to your understanding, Could it be, since God gave them both commands together, and God gave Adam alone, the command, that it was "Just for Adam", and not for Eve? Does that sound logical and reasonable? If it doesn't, please explain from the text using logic, reason, how you can conclude differently.
According to my understanding God would have conveyed all of the information needed to understand what He meant to the person He gave the command to. I believe that is a reasonable, logical, statement. Do you agree?
According to your understanding of Gen. 3:10-11, is understanding that they were both naked a result of the fall?
According to my understand, when a boss, person in charge, or even God, gives commands to absolutely everyone in a group, and then pulls a person to the side, and gives them additional commands, the reason for that is He wants something done, or not done, by that one singular person, and not everyone in the group. Is that logical and reasonable? If not, explain your answer.
The command given to Adam alone is repeated two more times. In both places, God refers to Adam alone as not only receiving the command, but for obeying it as well. Does that fit with your understanding as well? If not, please explain how God included Eve in His accusations and judgment of Eve.
According to my understanding, Adam made a statement:
Gen 3:12 The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."
According to my understanding, when anyone, in any language I am aware of, counters with this:
Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
According to my understanding, the, "What is "This", that God is referring to "Eve having done", has absolutely nothing at all to do with her eating. That isn't even a part of the discussion. Sincer her eating has nothing at all to do with God's judgment on Eve, and her having given to Adam, and getting her to eat, "was" the ONLY thing discussed, does God's being upset with that part seem to be the key for God's judgment of Eve? If not, please explain from the text how God ever refers to Eve eating from the tree, and not to her giving to Adam and getting him to eat.
We do know that they didn't know. The word of God says so. Gen. 3:7, 10-11
Eve wasn't given the command of God. If you do not do everything Moses was individually commanded by God to do, not everyone else, have you sinned? What if I tell you to do so? Then does it make it a sin that you don't obey every command God gave an individual? are you sinning if you don't? I say God wants you to do so, and if not you are grievously sinning. Then does it make it a sin for you not to do so? If you would say that judging you for not obeying commands meant for other individuals alone, and not for anyone else, is ludicrous, I agree.
God agrees as well. God didn't judge Eve at all for eating of the tree. Just for giving the fruit to Adam and getting him to eat. That, was what the word of God says God was referring to during Eve's judgment. (See the discussion above.) Again, from the text, please prove your point if you disagree.
I'm trying to hold fast to the text without adding, subtracting or distorting any meaning in an attempt to force the text to align with my beliefs. I am willing to alter any/all of my beliefs on any topic to hold fast to whatever is being proven good/true. You just need to hold to the exact meaning of the text. I'm open, and I only love truth. I'm not trying to hold fast to my understanding. How about you?
Well, since God says the command is only for Adam, and God judges Eve for giving the fruit to Adam and getting him to eat, and God reproves Adam alone two more times for disobeying the command He gave to Eve alone, according to my understanding, the one who deceived Eve was Adam. He's the one who took a command for him alone and didn't even share anything even close to what God said to him, to her.
Adam skipped the part about God saying this was meant for him alone. Adam created the part of not even touching the tree. Adam didn't explain the part about the command to avoid eating was only for him, and then state, but for safety's sake, I believe we should not go near the tree, or even touch it. If Adam hadn't deceived his wife and had shared absolutely everything, EXACTLY as God had said it, the serpent would have lost his in. We might all still be in the garden.
Thou shat not certainly die, was truth. Nothing happened when Eve ate. No change at all when she both touched and ate. The change happened when "The woman that thou gavest to me gave me from the tree and I ate." "THEN the eyes of both of them were opened."
Well, since nothing happened when she did, I guess she believed a lie. Which is exactly what Adam told her is.
The serpent also deceived Eve. The you shall know good
Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Nothing at all happened when she ate. But since the command was never meant for her, and neither were the consequences, nothing would happen.
2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
1Ti 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1Ti 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
If the command wasn't meant for Eve at all, why do we read:
(Gen 3:13 NKJV) And the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Both A&E committed the first sin of ignoring God because they were created with the capability of making moral choices and everyone else in the world also sinned and thus were condemned, but the way sinners may be saved was foreshadowed by the sacrifice of blood of innocent animals.
It is. That is a good point. Now, using logic and reason, and what we do have from the account, who told Eve something completely different that what God commanded Adam alone. Are you stating there is ANY other possibility based on the text and Eve's exceedingly fearful, if inaccurate, wording? I'd love to hear it. Logically, reasonably, rationally, who is the only one who would have "put such a fear of God" in not eating, no never go near the thing. Don't even touch it "Lest you die".
Do you have anyone, even remotely feasible, given the text, that would share that with Eve in that manner? If so, share with me.
That's the whole point. God never said any of what she says God said. Everything she said God said was a lie.
Again. You are correct. I await your sharing of who did tell her based on the text and events. Logically and rationally explain who you believe told her those lies?
Well, it sounds like you don't believe it was Adam. So, I await your conclusion as to who it was. If you can even show me a hint as to how it could be anyone else, I'd love to hear it. If, according to you, there isn't a single possibility anyone "else" could have done it, then let's look at the text and say, Adam told Eve what she repeats to the serpent in Gen. 3:2-3. If you disagree, explain to me why.
I agree, or Christ's death is meaningless.
Yep. Everythig Eve says is a complete lie. God said nothing about Eve dieing when she ate or touched the tree. As you stated, how could she receive the command from God as she wasn't even created yet.
Eve "understood" the complete lie Adam told her about what God said only to Him. Nothing in the statement she makes to the serpent had anything at all to do with her. Eve didn't understand a word about what God said because she wasn't told a word about what God said. Nothing she said was what God said. None of it was meant for her.
There was nothing in what Eve said that was what God said. If I tell you God says, "Don't eat pizza on Tuesday nights", and you eat pizza on Tuesday night, is that a sin? If so, judge Eve for it. Eve didn't get judged for that. She got judged, and her eyes were opened the moment she did it, because of "this":
Gen 3:11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12 The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?..."
Notice that the "You's" are all singular.
Now, sine the woman's eating or touching, or dancing around the tree, ... is never even a part of the discussion, what is the "THIS" that God is concerned with when it comes to Eve? It's the direct object just previously stated. Does God care about her not obeying complete lies? Does He say, because you disobeyed the lies your husband told you and touched and ate? What, according to God, since He brings up no other issue at all when it comes to Eve's judgment, is He judging Eve for in Gen. 3:11-16?
Eve never disobeyed God. There was no command of God for her to disobey. If there was show me how it "Was" the command of God for HER not to eat of the true or even touch it. If you disobey lies others tell you God said, have you sinned? If I say "God commands all Christians not to eat pizza on Tuesdays." And you do, is it a sin for you? Then why would you not judge yourself the same way want God to have condemned Eve?
Bingo. The command was for him alone (Unless you are saying Eve was there as well.) and he, alone, was the only one that could disobey a command he, alone, was given. If not, explain it to me.
That we agree on.
I didn't say Eve didn't believe a bunch of statements that were complete lies. She believed them all right. Up until she touched the tree and didn't die and then ate from the tree and didn't die. Oh, she believed every single word up till then. And then she gave the fruit to Adam, and he ate, and "THEN, the eyes of BOTH of them were opened." "Ut oh, I got consequences, it must be because I ate of the tree.".
But here's the problem ... Eve's eating of the tree was never ever mentioned by God. What God's only concern was, "What is THIS that thou hast done?" Understand, Eve's eating is never a part of the discussion.
While God gives Adam (2) reasons for his consequences, listening to the woman instead of God and eating of the tree I told "you" singular not to eat of. (Eve wasn't there for the telling, of course.), there is only one point God focuses on when it comes to Eve.
Gen 3:11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
Gen 3:12 The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done? ..."
Explain to me what, from the context, is the ONLY thing God focuses on when it comes to "What Eve has done". Does He ever bring up her eating? Well, judging her for believing lies that had nothing to do with what God commanded Adam is merely Adam's deceiving Eve about what God said. Not a single thing was true about it being a command God gave them both to obey. God did give them both (2) commands together. This one was for Adam "Alone".
I'd love to hear any scriptures or logic, reason, ...that allows for another interpretation... sticking to the meaning of the text, of course, without adding meaning not in the texts, subtracting meaning that is, and without distorting any meaning in an attempt to force the text to align with any of our beliefs.