T
theanointedsinner
Guest
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son
Jesus died for your sin
God raised Jesus from the dead
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jesus died for your sin
God raised Jesus from the dead
It is written, for he that cometh to God must believe he is. [Hebrews 11:6]
So if a person who comes to God must believe he is then they still don't know if there is a God any more than they did at the time they made a conscious choice to believe there is a God. So does believing something make it true?
L
LPT
Guest
Hmm interesting, is that the issue you are not sure what it feels to truely believe with your heart?
P
Pisteuo
Guest
Your answer means you would be claiming Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word before the Spirit of Christ has been sealed in you .
I explain this in detail in the oP or the updated post 43 .
The reason that won't work is " believing " in God's Word and His promises is not what true pisteuo or faithing is .
P
Pisteuo
Guest
The word " believe " in our bibles is used 248 times and everyone of them is a mistranslation of the Greek word pisteuo . Pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender , as defined in the Vines Greek dictionary .
L
LPT
Guest
What are you getting at, are you saying believers should use the word Pisteuo if someone believes in Jesus. I think there are a ton of people here who already surrendered their heart to him I doubt a proper word translation for faith is going to change their heart or their belief.
Either way you want to look at it Jesus gives his spirit freely and at his discretion, he decides who does and who doesn't, a thousand steps isn't going to get you any closer unless he allows it.
Faith - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Faith:
[ 1,,G4102, pistis ]
primarily, firm persuasion," a conviction based upon hearing (akin to peitho, "to persuade"), is used in the NT always of "faith in God or Christ, or things spiritual."
The above has nothing to do with "faithing:
Faith:
[ 1,,G4102, pistis ]
primarily, firm persuasion," a conviction based upon hearing (akin to peitho, "to persuade"), is used in the NT always of "faith in God or Christ, or things spiritual."
The above has nothing to do with "faithing:
P
Pisteuo
Guest
P
Pisteuo
Guest
You didn't read the oP , if you did you didn't comprehend what I was saying . I just didn't feel like repeating it to you all over again . I realize this is a deep subject with alot of moving parts , but if I'm going to go to all this work for you alls benefit , the least you can do is carefully read what I'm presenting .
This comes from an academic who knows the Greek language:
Colossians 2:6-7 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Having been rooted in Christ, you will therefore be built up (it’s passive), you will be established (it’s passive—again, God is the primary actor in both of those things), and in your response you’re abounding (active) in thankfulness; all of that’s going to happen (and now I’m going to quote Colossians 1:23)… if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting [“being moved”—that’s passive, as well] from the hope of the gospel that you heard… It still goes back to “You must believe.” It’s believing loyalty. You must believe. And if you believe–if you cooperate with God, if you believe, and if you’re trying to imitate the Lord and you’re trying to do what your savior and your master says, God will do these things in you. He will produce fruit from your life. But you have to keep believing. That’s really your primary role. It’s to be loyal to this God who saved you, who has forgiven you, who loves you. It’s returning love. It’s also being useful to him, because you want other people to be part of this. You want other people to have everlasting life.
“So, on the grounds that you received Christ, God roots you, God builds you up, and God establishes you in the faith, as you have been taught, and the Colossians respond with an abundance of thanksgiving (or excessive giving of thanks).
Colossians 2:6-7 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
- This conjuction: “as” (hos in Greek). So it could be either relative comparison or something about the grounds on which you ought to behave that are deriving from your profession of faith---believing loyalty. “Believing” is the faith part; “loyalty” is how we live in light of our faith. You can’t divorce the belief that you have from the process. So we’ve got a relationship between receiving Christ by faith and walking in him.
- “received” in the Greek language is an aorist tense; specifically it’s aorist active indicative. Now indicative is the mood of reality as opposed to the mood of unreality. Other moods deal with unreality. And the difference grammatically is that the indicative mood is about something that’s real; it’s really happened. The aorist tense in Greek focuses on action as a snapshot. In other words, the action is usually in the past because it’s an action that’s completed. It’s not out in the future.
- And then he adds a series of participles; so we’ve got rooted, built up, established, and abounding. And, those words are in some way tied or related to the main verb, which is “received.” The first three are passive participles. Passive implies you are not doing the action, but it is being done for you.
- “rooted” (participle) is a passive participle in the Greek language. “Rooted” is a perfect tense. Perfect tense in Greek conveys an action or event that has occurred in the past, but it has continuing effects or results. At some point, we got rooted. And then, also, it’s our present state. You’re still rooted; it’s ongoing. And it happened when they received Christ. That’s the aorist, that’s this one-time completed event. And then in relation to that event, they were rooted. Since it’s passive, something or someone rooted the Colossians in Christ; the Colossians didn’t do this, themselves; it’s something that was done to them. They were rooted in Christ by God. You put a plant in the ground; it takes hold. Now you expect it to progress to maturity, to grow.
- “Built up” (participle) is a passive participle. “Built up” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. God roots you—he plants you—in Christ, and then “builds you up” (it’s passive), so now you’re being built up by God.
- “Established” (participle) is a passive participle. “Established” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. God roots you, builds you up, and establishes you ( it’s passive), so now you’re being established. God has to do that work. There are commentators out there who take the passive participles as being imperatives, like commands. That’s not coherent, because I don’t know how you obey a passive command. How do you do that? Because as soon as you start doing it, you turn it into active. It just doesn’t make any sense. So it’s either the Colossians who are doing these things (and that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if they’re not commands) or it’s God who has rooted them, God who is building them up progressively, God who is establishing them in the faith progressively. But the Colossians still have a role to play because they can resist the Spirit.
- “abounding” is an active participle. “Abounding” is present tense (a progressive action). You would use the present tense to convey the sense of action in progress. But, it’s action in process. This is our role. And, if we’re really cooperating, it’s God who will build us up and will establish us. And we should be abounding in thanksgiving. We should be thankful/grateful. We’re back to this gratitude theme.
Having been rooted in Christ, you will therefore be built up (it’s passive), you will be established (it’s passive—again, God is the primary actor in both of those things), and in your response you’re abounding (active) in thankfulness; all of that’s going to happen (and now I’m going to quote Colossians 1:23)… if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting [“being moved”—that’s passive, as well] from the hope of the gospel that you heard… It still goes back to “You must believe.” It’s believing loyalty. You must believe. And if you believe–if you cooperate with God, if you believe, and if you’re trying to imitate the Lord and you’re trying to do what your savior and your master says, God will do these things in you. He will produce fruit from your life. But you have to keep believing. That’s really your primary role. It’s to be loyal to this God who saved you, who has forgiven you, who loves you. It’s returning love. It’s also being useful to him, because you want other people to be part of this. You want other people to have everlasting life.
“So, on the grounds that you received Christ, God roots you, God builds you up, and God establishes you in the faith, as you have been taught, and the Colossians respond with an abundance of thanksgiving (or excessive giving of thanks).
Okay, not entirely sure about the courtroom bit, but yes, the first coming to Christ for forgiveness, is not the point at which we receive His word, His promises, and most of all His abiding presence which is there at the beginning but is soon lost as we 'lose' our first love..
"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, AFTER THAT ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:12-14).
Of course not..........you are too busy going to seed on some new fantasized made up verbiage employed to support your dogma.....
You ever heard of the song....California Dreaming......? Yeah they had you in mind when they wrote the song......................
L
LPT
Guest
I'm cool with that, actually calling a dwelling a mansion indicates a level of grandeur and consumption considerably greater than the norm, with the additional connotation of quality.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
some folks just like toying around with heretical thoughts and doctrines
without the Holy Spirit you would not even know you were saved
In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13
without the Holy Spirit you would not even know you were saved
In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13
Amen
Ive quoted that verse many times in this guys' threads too
EPHESIANS 1:13 IS OVER LOOKED!
P
Pisteuo
Guest
Good Scripture as long as we understand it correctly . The two phrases that people see backwards because they don't know how to apply Faith or the verb pisteuo at the beginning of the Salvation journey are .
1) " who first trusted in Christ " . First trusted Christ for what ? Are we trusting Him to give us something such as Him , His word , or the promises in His word ? No ! Because we have yet to receive His Spirit , so Christ , His word , and His promises are not ours to claim yet .
So what are we trusting Him for ? If we have fulfilled our first act of pisteuo ( faithing , the verb that couldn't be translated into the English language , defined as " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " ) we are trusting that He will accept the surrendered life , that He will guide the surrendered life , that He will bless the surrendered life to sustain it , to keep the surrendered life , to grow the surrendered life , to build a relationship with Christ in the surrendered life . With true NT Faith and faithing , Pistis and pisteuo , we are giving Christ something , not taking something .
2) in whom also after that ye believed " . That word " believed " is a mistranslation of the Greek word pisteuo . Allow me to just replace the mistranslated word believed , with the correct definition . It should read , " in whom also after ye personally Surrendered your life to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender , ye were seal with that Spirit of promise .
Pisteuo or the application of Faith , ( faithing ) is a continual , daily action , throughout the Salvation journey .