Faith or Law?

[Adstar]

Hi Adstar,

Your post here has presented to me the perfect example of the damage the mistranslation of pisteuo has caused.
I'm not singling you out, most of the church world is in your camp.

You said,
Believing IN Jesus is a combined believing and trusting in both the message of Jesus AND his Atoning blood.

I want to give you an opportunity to change my mind, with this important question.
Explain: How do we "trust" in Jesus for salvation, to recieve His Spirit?

Umm one either believes that the Atonement of Jesus, His self sacrafice on the cross pays the penalty for our transgressions against the LAW or one does not... Yet again a question that is so basic Christianity 101 i don't understand why a Christian would even be asking it???

Oh and ""pisteuo""??? i am not one who acknowledges Strongs to be an infallable Gospel scripture of God and i do not trust Strongs or other type books who end up giving multiple different interpretations of Ancient greek words seeking to sabotarge the Word of God by claiming that God has failed to protect His word in English Bibles..

 

[studier]

Why would any sensible person read and study the Bible, without a teacher. If you give the Bible to a 1000 different people, they will come up with a 1000 different interpretations.

Same if we gave the Bible to a thousand different teachers which leads to the thousands of denominations.

 

[Qt]

Oh and ""pisteuo""??? i am not one who acknowledges Strongs to be an infallable Gospel scripture of God and i do not trust Strongs or other type books who end up giving multiple different interpretations of Ancient greek words seeking to sabotarge the Word of God by claiming that God has failed to protect His word in English Bibles..

Just the fact that the many translations that we have vary so much in certain areas prove That you need to reconsider this.

 

[Adstar]

Just the fact that the many translations that we have vary so much in certain areas prove That you need to reconsider this.

This is why i trust in the King James Bible..

 

[Watchman22]

Umm one either believes that the Atonement of Jesus, His self sacrafice on the cross pays the penalty for our transgressions against the LAW or one does not... Yet again a question that is so basic Christianity 101 i don't understand why a Christian would even be asking it???

Oh and ""pisteuo""??? i am not one who acknowledges Strongs to be an infallable Gospel scripture of God and i do not trust Strongs or other type books who end up giving multiple different interpretations of Ancient greek words seeking to sabotarge the Word of God by claiming that God has failed to protect His word in English Bibles..

I understand you completely. You are the perfect example of the carnage the mistranslation of pisteuo has caused.

I see you have done your homework, thanks for that. I've satisfied the watchman in me.

You sound like your dug in like an Alabama tick, so i won,t bother you further.

One thing to consider, if the English is right and protected by God as you say, that would mean the Greek is wrong and was never the inspired word of God.

Ya, welcome to my world.

 

[Rob7]

You have provided no evidence that I have said anything you accuse me of saying or believing. Either quote me or apologize and retract your slander.

I've pointed out that you exhibit a spirit of rebellion to our Father God. You are teaching and promoting this rebellion to God's 10 Commandments as does Satan, rather than the Righteousness ( obedience ) of Jesus. You think you are not going to die, since you claim the salvation of the Christ, but then don't exhibit a "Born Again" spirit, a newness of heart.

From our point of view, you don't look like, or talk like Jesus. The "spirit" you present here in these forums is one of prideful rebellion and disobedience, which is the spirit of Satan (Antichrist)
A good example ( evidence) of this is your attitude and arguments in ALL your communications here in this forum by how you rationalize and defend your sin, ie. disobedience.

From the "The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?" thread, post #3,394

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” Matthew 5:17, KJV
Destroy means cancel. Replace. Abolish.

(To which you replied ) "And "fulfill" means "bring to completion". If something has been brought to completion, why do you think you still need to add your obedience to it?" .. ( in other words, a well used excuse to enable & excuse disobedience, " Jesus was obedient, so now I don't have to be.) .. as if you can now continue sinning and NoT Die ! ... Satan's #1 and primary LIE from Eden.

Your attitude of prideful self-righteousness is deafening.. According to you, we are all idiots if we don't understand scripture your way, ( rather than Jesus' Way ) You very rarely quote the scriptures ( The H.S.) in your arguing, just relying on your self-righteousness. You claim to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, ( the Spirit of Christ and HIS Righteousness ) but don't exhibit the fruits of Him, ( Love, patience, kindness, etc. "Faithfulness" – Loyalty and trustworthiness in one’s relationship with God and others.) ~~> Matthew 7:16

By my pointing out your prideful self-righteousness ( rather than Christ's Righteousness ) this in NO WAY, means that I am not prideful & self-righteous as well. This is what sanctification is all about. Coming out of our self-righteousness, into Christ and HIS Righteousness. Gal 2:20 ... We ALL are sinners and will be until we die, and I struggle daily ( Romans 7) and pray daily for God to forgive me for my sin and to take this self-righteousness from me and instill ( Indwell ) Jesus and HIS Righteousness IN ME.

Galatians 2:19,20 " For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live to God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. "

Do you actually believe that Christ will dwelling IN US, by His Holy Spirit, when we indulge & exhibit pride, self-righteousness and a spirit of disobedience?
Do you really believe that if we have the nature, the heart of Christ and His Righteousness, dwelling IN US, as ALL True Christians should, according to Galatians 2:20, that you will be keeping the AntiChrist's Sunday holy, rather than God's 7th Day Holy?
Jesus consistently, repeatedly taught OBEDIENCE to the Father, as He was, by faith... " If you love me, keep my commandments" Be obedient to ME & The FATHER.

( You said some where here recently that " Jesus did not need to have "Faith" because he was the Son of God." ) BUT he was also as us, a man, needing and having Faith as well. The Faith of Jesus, being trust and dependence on The Father, Jesus as the perfect example of Faith, Faith that lead Jesus to obedience, having the Faith of Jesus is essential for salvation. Being an identifier and prerequisite of the Saints judged righteous, going to Heaven.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

Matthew 5:48 states: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." ... This command is not a call to sinless perfection in this life, but a call to spiritual maturity, completeness, and wholehearted devotion to God’s character, exemplified by His 10 Commandments of LOVE. and ... Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27 ... It's ALL about LOVE for God and other people.

Prioritized self-love ... ie. All selfishness is SIN. Which we are born with, inherited from Adam and Eve, and that we HAVE TO overcome, to where we have the character of heart, like Jesus, to be worthy of His Name, (Christian) and Heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:9-10 "And he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires" (Romans 6:12)

Also; 1 Corinthians 15:57, where Paul declares: "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

1 John 5:4 affirms: "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith."
Romans 6:1-23

Dino ! I don't like your attitude of prideful self-righteous adherence to disobedience ( your sin), BUT I love you as another person, struggling to find salvation, while being tempted and deceived by Satan, into disobedience. Maybe by my pointing this out to you, ( & others ) you might become aware of your condition, and repent, be born again into newness of life, to become a God fearing Christian.

Revelation 14:7 "... Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." ~~~I Pray ! ~~ Amen ! ~~

 

[Dino246]

I've pointed out that you exhibit a spirit of rebellion to our Father God. You are teaching and promoting this rebellion to God's 10 Commandments as does Satan, rather than the Righteousness ( obedience ) of Jesus.

Prove your accusations with evidence.

 

[Toknow]

No, I don't follow the 1689 Baptist Confession, I follow the Lord Jesus.

I see.
Because in post no. 908 you stated the following:

"My Church holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of faith."
So, IOW, you attend a church in whose doctrine you do not believe??

But, I'm happy to hear that you follow Jesus.
He taught that He died for all mankind and that any person has the possibility to be saved IF he accepts God's conditions for salvation.

1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.

You obviously haven't read any of the 1689 confession, if you read number 2 of the summary, you would see the good news.

You sure do know a lot about me.
Have you been following me around?

Please post no. 2 of the summary...whatever that is.

Again...unless you could prove your claim...
I confirm that there is no good news in the reformed faith.

I believe I've stated why.
Please do the same.

There may not be any good news for you, in Reformed theology, but there is for us who know we are saved.

Yes sir.
This I know.
The good news is ONLY for those lucky few that God has chosen to be saved.

For the rest of humanity it's the BAD NEWS.....
everyone else goes to hell, through no fault of their own.

You could attempt to explain how we all deserve death due to our total depravity...
but you must admit that God DID choose some and left others to go to hell.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

The good news is that I deserve to be cast into hell, but God sent His only begotten Son to take the punishment for me. So I am saved by His stripes.

Actually, God sent His only Son to win death for everyone...
not just for the lucky few of the reformed.

Even some reformed believe this...as you might know.

I don't need to wait around to see if God keeps His promise, because I know He is not a liar.

I don't know where you got the idea that God loves all humanity, and wishes that none be lost, but I haven't found anything of the sort in my Bible.

Perhaps you could put aside the Confession and read the bible.
I'll show you where the verses are that you are unable to find:


1. GOD LOVES ALL OF HUMANITY

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

JESUS said that God loves the world.
Unless God is a liar we have to take Jesus' word.



John 3:17
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
2. GOD WISHES FOR ALL MEN TO BE SAVED
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

I haven't found anything to support your idea that "the atonement of Jesus was offered for the forgiveness of sin for all mankind".

Jesus' atonement was offered for the forgiveness of all mankind.
This is taught in the NT....


1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15
14For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

The Lord Jesus defeated the power of sin and death for Gods people, on the cross. Everyone will be resurrected, some onto eternal life in paradise and others onto eternal punishment in hell.

Yes sir.
Although I'd say that God's people will be resurrect to eternal life.

I've never heard about this "Jesus opening the gates of heaven for all who were waiting for Him". Could you please reveal your source for this information.

Sure. The source is in the New Testament.
Those that died before Jesus' sacrifice were waiting in Hades.
This is common Christian knowlege.

Luke 16:19-31
19“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20“And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

I've never heard that we can be forgiven through believing/following Jesus. My Bible says those who believe shall be saved, it doesn't say "can be" as if salvation depends on keeping the law and doing good works.

Those who believe will be saved.
This is correct.

Question is: What does BELIEVE mean?
If we DO NOT do good works....
are we BELIEVING??

You misrepresented everything I stated, I can only assume it's because your denomination preaches a different version of the gospel.

There's only ONE version of the gospel.
And I don't have a denomination...
but you do and it seems you're not very familiar with the New Testament.
It's a good idea to read it often.

 

[Toknow]

I did ask why you don't believe the Bible, where it says that everyone is born dead in sin. There are many other verses that confirm that man is born totally depraved, we don't have the ability to change our sin nature.

I did ask you to show where the NT mentions total depravity...
you can just respond in the other post to you.

 

[Toknow]

Prove your accusations with evidence.

I can testify to @Rob7 's accusation.

You may not be aware of it Dino...
but you are very combative and unkind.

 

[Toknow]

The above is what Gods Word reveals about the matter, I didn't make it up.
God does not accept "our good works".
Works done by unregenerate people, regardless of how virtuous they appear outwardly, do not please God.
Because these works do not proceed from a heart purified by faith, nor are done for the right end (God's glory), they are considered sinful.
While God may use the outwardly good works of unbelievers (e.g., civil obedience, charity) for the benefit of society, these acts do not make an unbeliever acceptable to God.

I have already mentioned a few verses that you don't seem to believe. Please state the reason, you don't believe them.

Which verses did you mention?
I do my best to reply to all verses.
I might have missed them...
Please repost.

God has never invited anyone to examine His ways, and to agree with Him. He doesn't care about your opinion, He does whatever He pleases whether you like it or not. The only thing that matters is, if you believe in Him.

I always believe God.
God does not lie.

 

[Dino246]

I can testify to @Rob7 's accusation.

You may not be aware of it Dino...
but you are very combative and unkind.

Irrelevant. You have no more evidence for your accusations than he has for his.

 

[Toknow]

Irrelevant. You have no more evidence for your accusations than he has for his.

Great reaction Dino.

Yes sir.

Just keep on as you're doing.

I've stopped posting to you...
perhaps the other member should do the same.

posting to you is most unfruitful.

 

[Dino246]

posting to you is most unfruitful.

Your accusations are devoid of substance and evidence. Exactly what kind of fruit were you expecting?

 

[Qt]

This is why i trust in the King James Bible..

The Reformers used The Greek and Latin text. That is what we should of stuck with.

 

[Psalm1]

yet you done the same thing,,, But John the Baptist, Elijah, Elisha, and such have to. Including Jesus! Tis the season maybe?

Oh no.
I am pushing back on your nasty accusations.

I am RESPONDING to the alignment YOU PUT YOURSELF into.
My point being that God's word says " an underved curse can not fund rest"

So what you did by your fslse accusations and attempting to curse the body of Christ, you pulled down garbage on your own head.

Proverbs 26:2 states, "Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest". This means baseless curses, slander, or malicious wishes spoken against an innocent person lack the power to "alight" or harm them. It is a metaphor for the futility of unjust negativity, which flies by like a bird without finding a home. "

(From ai)

 

[Dino246]

The Reformers used The Greek and Latin text. That is what we should of stuck with.

It’s “should have” and that is silly because we don’t learn Greek or Latin by default.

 

[Watchman22]

This is why i trust in the King James Bible..

I too understand the KJV is the closest to the Greek out of all translations. But there are other translations that are closer than the KJV in some things.

That is why it's important to find a gifted teacher to find those differences, and not elevate ourselves to that gifted teacher status.

My gifted teacher had the largest Bible collection in private hands behind the Vatican. He would take six different translations and look at each of them to see who was the closest. Sometimes it was a Spanish text, Sometimes it was a veitnamese text and so on.

The important part is to be able to access those Greek texts as the datum point.

 

[Qt]

…that is silly because we don’t learn Greek or Latin by default.

That is silly because if they had stuck with the Greek and Latin we would have learned.

 

[Dino246]

That is silly because if they had stuck with the Greek and Latin we would have learned.

Given the current reality, what do you propose?