Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?
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I will come full circle and ask a basic question: Would Muslims and Buddhists who like the Samaritan in Luke 10 believed in loving their neighbors and enemies be part of the sheep in (Matthew 25:34-40), or is there some other place the Samaritan and Buddhists and Muslims like him go, other than inheriting God's kingdom?
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
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Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
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You make a good point. My experience of both muslims and buddhists is they do not know the idea of
loving ones neighbour as you love yourself. Love is a very difficult term, connected to danger, hurt, vulnerability,
anger, unforgiveness, humbleness, hope.
When John is saying if you love you know God, He is 100% meaning loving like Jesus.
And unless you know the cross, forgiveness, cleansing, purification, Holiness, righteousness,
these are more aspirations than reality.
Johns exhortation is about believers who claim to know God, yet hate others in the church and
behave in an unloving way, and thereby are liars and do not know God at all.
When you are talking about unbelievers who reject Jesus, cleansing, repentance, forgiveness, purity,
righteousness, truth, integrity, the cross, however they describe love, it is not in terms John is speaking about.
Often the love means being soft and supportive of another, but for very selfish ends and focus.
Muhammed never talked about love at all, or the commandments God gave, about loving God.
Buddhism is about life emptying and becoming one with the essence of everything, which is an
anti-life perspective, becoming an unmoving rock, which is not anything like love being the centre
of ones being.
loving ones neighbour as you love yourself. Love is a very difficult term, connected to danger, hurt, vulnerability,
anger, unforgiveness, humbleness, hope.
When John is saying if you love you know God, He is 100% meaning loving like Jesus.
And unless you know the cross, forgiveness, cleansing, purification, Holiness, righteousness,
these are more aspirations than reality.
Johns exhortation is about believers who claim to know God, yet hate others in the church and
behave in an unloving way, and thereby are liars and do not know God at all.
When you are talking about unbelievers who reject Jesus, cleansing, repentance, forgiveness, purity,
righteousness, truth, integrity, the cross, however they describe love, it is not in terms John is speaking about.
Often the love means being soft and supportive of another, but for very selfish ends and focus.
Muhammed never talked about love at all, or the commandments God gave, about loving God.
Buddhism is about life emptying and becoming one with the essence of everything, which is an
anti-life perspective, becoming an unmoving rock, which is not anything like love being the centre
of ones being.
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Unfortunately, what you say about most Muslims and Buddhists not knowing loving their neighbors is correct.
The vast majority of Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, do not believe in loving their neighbors, and especially not their enemies.
I'm just guessing, but maybe 1% or 2% may be like the Samaritan in Luke 10.
I would also, however, venture to guess that the majority in most Christian denominations throughout the worlds churches, likewise do not believe in loving their neighbor, and especially not their enemies.
The rest of your claim in which you state "John's exhortation is about believers who claim to know God, yet hate others in the church..."; the Holy Spirit through Paul never made such a differentiation between people.
So while what you say about they in Christian denominations who hate others in their communities is true, that they are liars, and do not know God;... the rest of the world's creeds who do not hate others in their communities, and do not hate those who hate them, but instead love their neighbors and their enemies, are born of God, who is love.
This is basic common sense reasoning in accord with scriptures, and not some dogmatic perspective which denies the Word by adding conditions which the Holy Spirit did not mention.
The vast majority of Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, do not believe in loving their neighbors, and especially not their enemies.
I'm just guessing, but maybe 1% or 2% may be like the Samaritan in Luke 10.
I would also, however, venture to guess that the majority in most Christian denominations throughout the worlds churches, likewise do not believe in loving their neighbor, and especially not their enemies.
The rest of your claim in which you state "John's exhortation is about believers who claim to know God, yet hate others in the church..."; the Holy Spirit through Paul never made such a differentiation between people.
So while what you say about they in Christian denominations who hate others in their communities is true, that they are liars, and do not know God;... the rest of the world's creeds who do not hate others in their communities, and do not hate those who hate them, but instead love their neighbors and their enemies, are born of God, who is love.
This is basic common sense reasoning in accord with scriptures, and not some dogmatic perspective which denies the Word by adding conditions which the Holy Spirit did not mention.
I think you are making some assumptions here.
John is saying to walk with God and having hate in your heart, means your walk is not in love.
It is not saying how many or who is suffering from this, yet you seem to want to extend this to groups and communities.
I do not know who does one thing or another, because that is not my concern. My concern is to be a light and shine,
because I know only God knows the truth and the balances.
And my impression in my life is without Jesus seeing this love and its expression does not come to fruition.
If anybody is concerned to walk in love, Jesus is the shinning light, that shows the way.
John is saying to walk with God and having hate in your heart, means your walk is not in love.
It is not saying how many or who is suffering from this, yet you seem to want to extend this to groups and communities.
I do not know who does one thing or another, because that is not my concern. My concern is to be a light and shine,
because I know only God knows the truth and the balances.
And my impression in my life is without Jesus seeing this love and its expression does not come to fruition.
If anybody is concerned to walk in love, Jesus is the shinning light, that shows the way.
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I am making assumptions in regards to how many people in the worlds numerous denominations actually believe in loving their neighbors and their enemies. And as I stated, I am only guessing on the percentages.
I, however, am not making any assumptions on who they in 1 John 4:7-16 are, and are not, other than what these scriptures clearly do not differentiate between so called creeds.
I, however, am not making any assumptions on who they in 1 John 4:7-16 are, and are not, other than what these scriptures clearly do not differentiate between so called creeds.
I would offer as prescribed in 2 Corithians 4:18. One of the keys that unlocks the understanding. We should try and do what is called "mix faith" in resect to those who heard the gospel and did receive the reSt of Christ as he works in us to make our hearts soft . (Hebrew 4)
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
God is simply not a man (a created being) that is a impossibility. Jesus as the Son of man said of his own corrupted flesh it profits nothing , other than a wonderful outward demonstration of the invisible work of God who promised to pour out His Spirit, the one source of life on dead flesh , typified as sinful (what the eyes see the temporal) In order to create a new creation as His eternal bride.
In John 6 many disciples no longer followed after Jesus. They were hoping in a fleshly God as a fleshly mediator (daysman) Jesus, to stand between God and man as a infallible umpire. They walked away in unbelief. (no faith) that alone comes from hearing God not seen called the hearing of faith . A perfect example of the phrase no faith in reference to the generation of unconverted mankind. They like Cain would have nothing to do with a God not seen.
.Jesus, as the Son of man refused to stand in the Holy unseen place of God's glory. Peter who mixed faith in what he did see and hear understood as the Holy Spirit revealed it to Peter. and therefore it was not revealed by the flesh and blood of Jesus. but again by the Holy Spirit .His word is Spirit and by His Spirit he gives us spirit life
John 6:68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Coming as theophany or vision like that of Melchedik would not fit the promised demonstration. (Isaiah 53) The Son of man, Jesus came in the corrupted flesh typified as sinful to demonstrate he is the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world. He came as our High Priest continually without beginning or end to do what Melchedik a vision without substance (no flesh and blood) could not do the law kills the body has already been judged as dead (corruption) . A living sacrifice is what is needed. The dead know nothing. The pouring out of His Spirit as the law of faith (believing God) heals.
Romans 8:3 For what the law "could not do", in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
God is simply not a man (a created being) that is a impossibility. Jesus as the Son of man said of his own corrupted flesh it profits nothing , other than a wonderful outward demonstration of the invisible work of God who promised to pour out His Spirit, the one source of life on dead flesh , typified as sinful (what the eyes see the temporal) In order to create a new creation as His eternal bride.
In John 6 many disciples no longer followed after Jesus. They were hoping in a fleshly God as a fleshly mediator (daysman) Jesus, to stand between God and man as a infallible umpire. They walked away in unbelief. (no faith) that alone comes from hearing God not seen called the hearing of faith . A perfect example of the phrase no faith in reference to the generation of unconverted mankind. They like Cain would have nothing to do with a God not seen.
.Jesus, as the Son of man refused to stand in the Holy unseen place of God's glory. Peter who mixed faith in what he did see and hear understood as the Holy Spirit revealed it to Peter. and therefore it was not revealed by the flesh and blood of Jesus. but again by the Holy Spirit .His word is Spirit and by His Spirit he gives us spirit life
John 6:68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Coming as theophany or vision like that of Melchedik would not fit the promised demonstration. (Isaiah 53) The Son of man, Jesus came in the corrupted flesh typified as sinful to demonstrate he is the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world. He came as our High Priest continually without beginning or end to do what Melchedik a vision without substance (no flesh and blood) could not do the law kills the body has already been judged as dead (corruption) . A living sacrifice is what is needed. The dead know nothing. The pouring out of His Spirit as the law of faith (believing God) heals.
Romans 8:3 For what the law "could not do", in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
God could never become a man as. us God has no beginning.
True. Jesus, as the Son of man demonstrated the work of the father pouring out his judgment on corrupted flesh according to Isaiah 53.
It reads it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He caused him to suffer making his suffering soul an offering for sin,. Joel speaks of the promised demonstration of the unseen work of the Father pouring out his Spirit on the Son of man, Jesus . By his stripes we are all healed .
The father and Son working together in perfect harmony worked as one to establish government as the peace of God that does surpass our understanding. We therefore are to lean of His understanding as it is written.
He was not declared the Son of God at birth at birth. He was given his corrupted flesh to be used as a one time demonstration. There simply is no "flesh of holiness' .
I think that would be more of a Catholic tradition .They need a fleshly god to create a fleshly Queen of heaven. .Just as did the faithless Jews that walked after the flesh as if it could profit for something.They had a different name for the same Queen Blasphemy .
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
True. Jesus, as the Son of man demonstrated the work of the father pouring out his judgment on corrupted flesh according to Isaiah 53.
It reads it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He caused him to suffer making his suffering soul an offering for sin,. Joel speaks of the promised demonstration of the unseen work of the Father pouring out his Spirit on the Son of man, Jesus . By his stripes we are all healed .
The father and Son working together in perfect harmony worked as one to establish government as the peace of God that does surpass our understanding. We therefore are to lean of His understanding as it is written.
He was not declared the Son of God at birth at birth. He was given his corrupted flesh to be used as a one time demonstration. There simply is no "flesh of holiness' .
I think that would be more of a Catholic tradition .They need a fleshly god to create a fleshly Queen of heaven. .Just as did the faithless Jews that walked after the flesh as if it could profit for something.They had a different name for the same Queen Blasphemy .
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Joh 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
I guess that's why I felt I am going around in circles with you. One needs to be born again to begin to grasp these things.
(Joh 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
I guess that's why I felt I am going around in circles with you. One needs to be born again to begin to grasp these things.
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The word became flesh, everything we are physically with its limitations, strengths and weaknesses
to prove we have no excuse, it is our attitude and heart that destroys us, and leads us to sin.
The flesh is corrupted because we have corrupted it. Love and communion with God conquers all things.
And Jesus took all the punishment man could give Him, innocent yet called guilty, an example of healing
and love, but accused of being satan, and wanting to destroy Israel.
But His response was forgive them, for they know not what they do.
And it this we gain forgiveness for our sins, because a sinner truly does not know what they do, because
they live in darkness, driven by passions and desires that spring up and drive them on.
to prove we have no excuse, it is our attitude and heart that destroys us, and leads us to sin.
The flesh is corrupted because we have corrupted it. Love and communion with God conquers all things.
And Jesus took all the punishment man could give Him, innocent yet called guilty, an example of healing
and love, but accused of being satan, and wanting to destroy Israel.
But His response was forgive them, for they know not what they do.
And it this we gain forgiveness for our sins, because a sinner truly does not know what they do, because
they live in darkness, driven by passions and desires that spring up and drive them on.
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Hi thanks for the reply.
Circles? Whose circle? I agree one needs to be born again to begin to grasp these thing.
Job 9:33 informs us God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshy mediator set between God and man as a infallible umpire. . Jesus as the Som n of man refused that position and gave glory to the father not seen . In that way a we are to call no man teacher on earth one is our teacher and father in heaven. Our father taught Jesus just as he does with us. One word or parable at a time.
A person could never (impossible) make God into a man as if God could have a beginning. Jesus resisted worship in respect to his corrupted flesh. He said it profits for nothing, zero, nada.
Flesh and blood could never enter the new order. We do not wrestle against what the eyes see the temporal and neither does it support us, dead corrupted bodies have no use without a new spirit that is promised a new incorruptible body..
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
The word (Son of God) is our High Priest continually without beginning or end put on the temporal flesh as the "Son of man", Jesus .
Salvation is not reckoned from the birth after his corrupted flesh he inherited from His mother.... typified as sinful. In order to do what the letter of the law could not do bring new spirit life. The letter kills. .Not such things as holiness of corrupted flesh
And Some beheld his representative glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth .
Some did know the Son of God after the flesh Like that of faithless Thomas. When the Son of man Jesus left he left clear information. The one time demonstration of the father not seen pouring out His Spirit of the Son of man seen is over .The veil is rent the last days began . Catholisicim sports a fleshly Jesus. Its what according to them that kind of corrupted flesh which appoints a queen of heaven ,
God is simply not a man as us never was never could be. Walk by faith, the unseen eternal not after what the eyes see, the temporal..
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
LOL.... Jehovah Witnesses propaganda? What about your seemingly Catholic propaganda ( Real flesh)
My home church is called Plymouth Brethren. They have a excellent format . The breaking of bread service is held in high honor to the Spirit of God. Not pertaining to the flesh. (he has retired that jersey "#1" )
Jehovah Witnesses like the Catholics confuse the meaning of the metaphor "drink blood. One believes we can take in literal blood magically while the other refuse transfusions . This is as if the gospel had to do with corrupted flesh and blood to begin with .
To drink the blood is simply a way of saying the Holy Spirit has poured out His Spirit on flesh , in jeopardy of his own Spirit life.
I have given a answer to both references in John . The Son of God clothed himself with corrupted flesh as the Son of man, Jesus.
Are you thinking he is coming for another fleshy demonstration? What will you do with 2 Corinthians 5:16? Can't mend the veil that represented the coming fleshly demonstration of a spiritual work not seen...….. can we?
My home church is called Plymouth Brethren. They have a excellent format . The breaking of bread service is held in high honor to the Spirit of God. Not pertaining to the flesh. (he has retired that jersey "#1" )
Jehovah Witnesses like the Catholics confuse the meaning of the metaphor "drink blood. One believes we can take in literal blood magically while the other refuse transfusions . This is as if the gospel had to do with corrupted flesh and blood to begin with .
To drink the blood is simply a way of saying the Holy Spirit has poured out His Spirit on flesh , in jeopardy of his own Spirit life.
I have given a answer to both references in John . The Son of God clothed himself with corrupted flesh as the Son of man, Jesus.
Are you thinking he is coming for another fleshy demonstration? What will you do with 2 Corinthians 5:16? Can't mend the veil that represented the coming fleshly demonstration of a spiritual work not seen...….. can we?
You are confusing the word 'flesh' as it has more than one meaning. It can mean our actual bodies, it can also mean human strength/ability apart from God's grace and power. Your view is more of a gnostic view where God one day will free us from our flesh and we will be free spirits. Newsflash! God became man to redeem our bodies as well as all of creation (Rom 8).
Concerning the Plymouth Brethren, they were Trinitarian and held to the Incarnation like...
Sir Robert Anderson.
F.F. Bruce
J.N. Darby
Harry Ironside
George Muller
all of whom I respect and their theology was orthodox.
Concerning the Plymouth Brethren, they were Trinitarian and held to the Incarnation like...
Sir Robert Anderson.
F.F. Bruce
J.N. Darby
Harry Ironside
George Muller
all of whom I respect and their theology was orthodox.
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Yes, It can mean our actual bodies, it can also mean human strength/ability apart from God's grace and power. Ultimately its what the eyes see, the temporal. We walk by faith as it comes from hearing God called the hearing of faith, a work God works in us. Hearing of faith, used twice in Galatian 3 . It is not of ourselves. Previously having no faith. The whole creation is corrupted in that way .In that way we do not know God after the rudiments of this world. We should work to rely on him daily . he must increase as we decrease. Or he will perish and Like Luke begs the question... when he comes will he find faith or men walking after the temporal things seen ?
What the eyes see is that which is typified as sinful . With Jesus according to the Spirit of holiness, the Son of God .It must of been typified as sinful as the Son of man in order for the father not seen to pour out his Spirit on flesh according to the promise. The law of faith. "Believing God"
The letter of the law kills shown by our corruptible bodies of death (1st) .
Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV)For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Yes they have an excellent format . It was there I was first given ears to hear the gospel and given a desire to look into things not seen, in a hope of seeking the approval of the author and perfecter of faith. They have a excellent main speaker named John Duckhorn Him and his wife Donna have a great ministry . previously missionaries for years .And there are many others able to give a gospel message.
What the eyes see is that which is typified as sinful . With Jesus according to the Spirit of holiness, the Son of God .It must of been typified as sinful as the Son of man in order for the father not seen to pour out his Spirit on flesh according to the promise. The law of faith. "Believing God"
The letter of the law kills shown by our corruptible bodies of death (1st) .
Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV)For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Yes they have an excellent format . It was there I was first given ears to hear the gospel and given a desire to look into things not seen, in a hope of seeking the approval of the author and perfecter of faith. They have a excellent main speaker named John Duckhorn Him and his wife Donna have a great ministry . previously missionaries for years .And there are many others able to give a gospel message.