False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[GWH]

Most 8-year-olds still have a lot of mistakes to make and very limited understanding about most subjects. Heck, I know some 80-year-olds, still mentally competent, who admit to not being able to understand many Bible passages, or as some have said, not wanting to understand them in the way the Greek implies, because if they do, it changes everything. So glad you were such a "wunderkint", able to understand things adults struggle with at such a tender age.

Personally, I find that if Romans 1:20 is true, I need to know a lot more about the universe than is easily discerned from the Bible. It might be there, but it also seems well hidden and easily misunderstood.,

Fortunately, GRFS is NOT to understand every Bible passage; understanding only one is sufficient in order to be saved,
such as John 3:16, 6:29, 13:34-35, Acts 16:30-31.

We are responsible for what we do with the opportunities to learn Truth that we have.
Rom. 1:20 indicates that creation is sufficient for indicating a Creator with a loving Nature.

 

[PaulThomson]

The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Fallible learners should not claim inerrant certainty, and humility is appropriate even for y'all who know Hebrew and Greek.

God gives His revelation in both H&G and translations of such.

It can be misunderstood, but it can be understood well enough to be saved by a child of the age of accountability.

Even if the extant Bible were perfect/dictated by God, finite/sinful souls would not be able to have absolute certainty.
We all walk by faith, not proof or papal infallibility.

@GWH Do you agree with ATG that, "The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.” If so, what do you consider to be the Scriptures of Christ that are all one perfect unified whole? The KJV? The ESV? The RSV? All Bible translations? Or what?

 

[ATG]

This is true as far as it goes.

You mean only so far as it goes, until your own teaching out of context?

the key problem being that there is no consistent definition of scripture across all of Christianity that we can hold fast to.

Then all Christianity is lost. Or rather, all Christians that do not believe the God of heaven, and Jesus Christ has power to wholly preserve His Scripture complete and perfect on earth:

Jhn 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

All of Christ's Scriptures ever given on earth are still presently preserved. None of His written words are passed away from earth.

The Bible I read is perfectly sound and accurate in all things. And so, the Bible I read is all I need to know all the Scriptures of truth, that God has given to His apostles and prophets for any child to read and believe and know the truth of God:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The Bible contains somewhere between 66 and 82+ books. There is a minimum of 150 psalms, possibly 155 or even more. How many of us know with absolute certainty, not with personal conviction but absolute certainty, what the proper bounds of scripture are?

And then there is Romans 1:20, which no Christian tradition I am aware of denies being scripture, and it tells us that what can be known of God is knowable from creation.

Correct. And what any man can know about the invisible God by the visible things, begins and ends with His visible words of one Book, called the Scriptures of truth.

Deu 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Diminishing words of God begins with isolating Scripture from Scripture, to cut off unwanted words of God.

Note, scripture does not clearly define where "general" or "special" revelations begin or end,

Revelation from God begins and ends with Scriptures of God. No revelation, tradition, doctrine, religion from the God of the Scriptures, contradicts the Scriptures of God.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

If we do not have all the Scriptures of God preserved in one clearly written Book, for us to study and know the truth of God, then any gospel is as good as another.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

How can any Christian ever judge objectively by doctrine of Scripture, whether to bid any other Christian God speed? If the Scriptures are not wholly complete for reading, then every doctrine must be personally subjective, so that no doctrine can be rejected.

Which of course, begins with the lie, that all the Scriptures of God are not perfectly preserved by God into one Book on earth, for all to read and objectively judge by.

"This is true as far as it goes" is the recipe and justification for all the divided doctrines and congregations naming Christ.

humans do that, and most Christians accept that distinction as being convenient for granting special status to those of us who read the scriptures we accept,

Unbelief in complete Scriptural integrity is simple unbelief in completed Scriptures of God, and the bounds thereof for His revelation and gospel of Jesus Christ: Sola Scriptura.

 

[ATG]

but is such an attitude adding to the word of God or following it, and justify your answer in light of Romans.

After all that, are you saying there is an error in the OP teaching given from the Scriptures, as compared to other Scriptures??

Normally, I would simply ask for proof by the Scriptures. But, as we have seen, it's not possible for anyone to objectively correct any teaching claimed from Scripture, since all Scriptures are not at hand, and some Scriptures are not subjectively accepted.

It's a self-contradicting rejection of one's own personal belief, to then dare to correct any doctrine given from any Scripture personally accepted by another. All any believer can ever say at most is, that's 'your' truth from Scripture, and this is 'my' truth from Scripture.

In any case, since you mention Romans, then it's not the first example you disagree with, but the 2nd example of isolating Scripture from Scripture: your truth rejects the gospel of repentance unto faith and salvation. No iolating Scripture from Scripture only goes so far, in order to believe your truth of salvation and justification by faith alone, without repentance from dead works first. I.e:

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Acts{3:19}
Be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh salvation not to be repented of:

'Rewriter' would certainly be appropriate.

Any gospel preached without repentance first, is not the whole Scripture's gospel of Jesus Christ. And if anyone wants to isolate certain Scriptures of salvation and justification, that are not written with repentance first, then I can quote Scriptures of salvation and justification by the niceness of God alone, without repentance, grace, nor faith.

There are universalist Christians that do believe all people are now saved by Jesus Christ, because His Father is such a loving God and so nice to die for our sins.

You're absolutely right: Sinful humans do that to Scripture, which begins with not believing all the Scriptures of God completed for all men on earth to read, repent, believe, and know the one gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

 

[TruthDefender]

I respect your opinion but will go just a bit further. As I read in the bible, we are personally held accountable for our behavior,

Yes, individually.

and we are corporately held responsible for the actions of our nation.

How so, I don’t see this? This sounds like socialistically responsible? I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here?

Can you give any verse for individuals being held accountable/ responsible for the actions of our nation? Jesus never said that His believers were responsible for the actions of say, Rome.

We can be righteous yet still suffer earthly consequences for the sins of the nation. Humanists won't like this idea much.

Yes, true. A good example are the Iranian Christians suffering due to their gov. However, these Christians are not responsible for the actions of their gov.

All sin and come short of the glory of God. Therefore, every nation sins.

We are sojourners living in an evil world. We are to live as light, because God is Light w/in us. We are to live in the world, but yet separate from the world (ie. We don’t live like the world).

 

[Seeker47]

Yes, individually.

How so, I don’t see this? This sounds like socialistically responsible? I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here?

Can you give any verse for individuals being held accountable/ responsible for the actions of our nation? Jesus never said that His believers were responsible for the actions of say, Rome.

Yes, true. A good example are the Iranian Christians suffering due to their gov. However, these Christians are not responsible for the actions of their gov.

All sin and come short of the glory of God. Therefore, every nation sins.

We are sojourners living in an evil world. We are to live as light, because God is Light w/in us. We are to live in the world, but yet separate from the world (ie. We don’t live like the world).

Yes, I think so. Let’s first be clear on terms. There are earthly consequences for sin, those we experience here; and there are spiritual punishments experienced at the Judgement.

Unless we are willing to say there were no righteous Hebrews sent in exile from Israel and Judah, then the innocent do suffer corporate chastisement.

I would also suggest during Yom Kippur, the second goat, the one turned loose in the wilderness, is a corporate sacrifice.

Leviticus 16:21:

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities…

I also believe Leviticus 20: 4-5 pretty clearly states we do have corporate responsibilities to YHWH.

I’m not a particularly good writer, I could have stated this clearer.

 

[ATG]

Yes, unless you disagree with what I said.

So let's see.

It is great to discover a denomination of harmonizers on CC.
Count me in!

I'm certainly in harmony with anyone preaching Jesus Christ the Son of God, dying for our sins and rising again for our justification.

Other unscriptural traditions aside.

Re post #1: I typically try to cite Eph. 2:8-10, which indicates that saving faith is manifested by godly works.

Which is first manifested by no ungodly works.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
God rested form His own good works. We rest from our own evil works.

Imputed righteousness by faith without works, is having faith toward God without past works, that were done without Christ.

Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Re post #2: I would note that interpreting a verse in the context of the whole Bible necessitates having encyclopedic knowledge,
so we will need to be content with living up to what we learn bit by bit (Phil 3:16).

Certainly true. However, the principle is basic literary objectivity: No author should be taken out of context anywhere.

And when context is given, then correction must be accepted. Else personal integrity is at fault, no matter how little or much knowledge of the book.

Re post #3: It might be helpful to discern which misunderstandings are dangerous and which are merely incorrect.

Totally agree. While all readers can be ignorantly heretical in some of the Scriptures, destructive heresy is false teaching and preaching that corrupts the Scriptures:

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Re post #4: My hermeneutic values two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide an interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements.

Two NT teachings is already false: There's only one doctrine of Christ written by His apostles.

Act 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Perhaps you mean two rules and guidelines for interpreting and teaching Scripture accurately.

Scripture also has these two rules for objectively interpretation and teaching Scriptures:

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly divide between what is written, and what is not written.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Only teach and preach what is written. Not what is only personally believed without written verification.

Sola Scriptura.

First, God loves and wants to save everyone. Seven Scriptures teaching divine omnilove include: 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4, which might be deemed the “7 pearls”. Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies:

True.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

However, the Son also allowed Himself to be falsely condemned for blasphemy, in order to first show the evil of all sinners on earth, and not just the wicked hands that slew Him.

Deu 19:9
If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;…That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The law of shedding the innocent blood of the beloved Son Jesus Christ, applies to every man that has sinned on earth: And so, all men's sins are shown guilty of His blood. And all men that sin must repent to be forgiven and cleansed of His blood guiltiness.

Heb 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Jas 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Since all men that sin make themselves enemies of God, then at Jesus' cross all sinners are shown enemies that must repent.

Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

those who are ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ, pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, John 8:42-44).

God loves all who are sinners, calling them to repentance.

Mar 2:17
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

God justifies all who were sinners, choosing them to glory.

Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Correct. No one in the name of God so loving the world, should preach God justifies anyone still doing evil.

Especially after showing sinners the evil of their own sins, and His love for their own souls, which is by the death, burial, and resurrection of His beloved Son Jesus Christ, the righteous judge of all the earth.

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, I think so. Let’s first be clear on terms. There are earthly consequences for sin, those we experience here; and there are spiritual punishments experienced at the Judgement.

Unless we are willing to say there were no righteous Hebrews sent in exile from Israel and Judah, then the innocent do suffer corporate chastisement.

I would also suggest during Yom Kippur, the second goat, the one turned loose in the wilderness, is a corporate sacrifice.

Leviticus 16:21:

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities…

I also believe Leviticus 20: 4-5 pretty clearly states we do have corporate responsibilities to YHWH.

I’m not a particularly good writer, I could have stated this clearer.

Ooh, so from your statements, I’m perceiving that you are either Jewish, or a Shabbat keeper, maybe SDA?

Do you differentiate between the covenants? I never go to the OC/ OT to look up the Law, because we are no longer under the OC.

 

[Seeker47]

Ooh, so from your statements, I’m perceiving that you are either Jewish, or a Shabbat keeper, maybe SDA?

Do you differentiate between the covenants? I never go to the OC/ OT to look up the Law, because we are no longer under the OC.

Nope, you are wrong on all counts. I am only a man who can read.

 

[TruthDefender]

Nope, you are wrong on all counts. I am only a man who can read.

Ok, by saying “No” to all of the questions is not good. That last question should’ve been a “Yes”.

 

[ATG]

The Word of God is not the Bible translation someone is basing their doctrines on.

While this is true to a limited degree, we can rest assured that God has preserved His true words complete and whole in one Book, with translation blessedly at this time into all languages. Even as He promised:

So, while translations are not the Scriptures themselves, they are however accurate for principle gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ:

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Our risen Lord Jesus Himself has ensured, that it's not at all necessary for anyone to become a ancient linguist, in order to know and do the simple truth of Scripture unto salvation and justification by Jesus Christ, as well as contend for the truth of Scriptures ourselves:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Ancient language studies can certainly be interesting and helpful in certain matters of translation, but not necessary to understand and do the first principles of Christ, which has nothing to do with linguist skill, and everything to do with whole hearted faith toward God:

Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Afterall, the great reformation was all about translations from the ancient Scripts, that did take away the mystery of the gospel and Godhead of God from the hands of linguist scribes and priests, and instead placing them into the hands of readers in their own languages. Which was why the early translators were persecuted as heretics.

Therefore, we can be also assured that God has His own translators, as well as prophets and apostles, that are willing to lay down their own lives for the Scriptures of truth.

If a pastor cannot demonstrate from the Greek and Hebrew texts the validity of the translation of the texts they are basing their doctrines on, they may not be getting their doctrine from the Word of God at all.

If people have to get into linguistic arguments in order to preach the simple doctrine of Christ, then they are not getting their doctrine from the Scriptures at all.

You applaud scholarship, but God applauds simple words:

2Co 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2Co 3:12
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

1Co 14:9
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Once again, study is good, but I don't need ancient studies to know what my Bible tells me plain enough in my own language.

If someone doubts the integrity of their a translation, then there's plenty others to study and choose. But suggesting all translations are wrong in some degree, is first unbelief toward God to ensure accurate translations, and likewise to pick and choose from different translations to please oneself.

Gal 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Not being a man-pleaser for the truth's sake begins with not pleasing ourselves for our own truth.

 

[ATG]

The word translated "I form" in is a qal participle from the verb YaaTsaR (he formed), and means to form by squeezing. The word translated as "create" is a qal participle from the verb BaRa’ (he shaped) which means to shape by cutting. So God shapes evil by curring it, by limiting the evil creatures can do. But he shapes light by compressing it into the material universe. Understanding the words used in the original languages must be the first step in clarifying the meaning of the scriptures. Otherwise, one may well be trying to fit one or more errors together to form a correct doctrine. But GIGO.

As I said, word studies are good and beneficial, if they help clarify what we can already know by our own language translations.

Such as, from James 1 we know that Scripture is not saying, that God is an evil Creator creating evil, as are said of certain pagan gods.

And original word studies aside, we can still simply go to other Scriptures, for how God creates darkness and evil:

Eze 28:14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee...

Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

God creates all things good, including all angels and men in His image. But by virtue of such good creation, both angels and men have power to make their own evil, rather than do good as created.

And so, by creation itself, that which God does for the good, can become evil against God Himself, whether it be angels or men that corrupt their own hearts to lust and do evil:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

And so, he does not create darkness and evil Himself, but His creation with power thereof can rebel and become darkness and evil themselves.

God being the Spirit of eternal life and light, becomes the Creator of darkness and evil, not by His own will and deeds, but only by the corrupted will and deeds of angels and men...

Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Eze 28:14
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee...

This is what any child can understand about their own power by creation of God, to do His good will, or their own evil intent. No real need of Hebrew qal principle shape-cutting. Though, it certainly does help to some degree in how Lucifer was thus cut down, after making his own heart evil against God.

 

[rewriter]

You mean only so far as it goes, until your own teaching out of context?



Then all Christianity is lost. Or rather, all Christians that do not believe the God of heaven, and Jesus Christ has power to wholly preserve His Scripture complete and perfect on earth:

Jhn 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

All of Christ's Scriptures ever given on earth are still presently preserved. None of His written words are passed away from earth.

The Bible I read is perfectly sound and accurate in all things. And so, the Bible I read is all I need to know all the Scriptures of truth, that God has given to His apostles and prophets for any child to read and believe and know the truth of God:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


Correct. And what any man can know about the invisible God by the visible things, begins and ends with His visible words of one Book, called the Scriptures of truth.

Deu 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Diminishing words of God begins with isolating Scripture from Scripture, to cut off unwanted words of God.


Revelation from God begins and ends with Scriptures of God. No revelation, tradition, doctrine, religion from the God of the Scriptures, contradicts the Scriptures of God.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

If we do not have all the Scriptures of God preserved in one clearly written Book, for us to study and know the truth of God, then any gospel is as good as another.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

How can any Christian ever judge objectively by doctrine of Scripture, whether to bid any other Christian God speed? If the Scriptures are not wholly complete for reading, then every doctrine must be personally subjective, so that no doctrine can be rejected.

Which of course, begins with the lie, that all the Scriptures of God are not perfectly preserved by God into one Book on earth, for all to read and objectively judge by.

"This is true as far as it goes" is the recipe and justification for all the divided doctrines and congregations naming Christ.


Unbelief in complete Scriptural integrity is simple unbelief in completed Scriptures of God, and the bounds thereof for His revelation and gospel of Jesus Christ: Sola Scriptura.

A very simple question for you. Where is the definition of scripture? I can easily find at least four definitions of what constitutes scripture from different Christian groups. However, none of these definitions have any support other than human tradition. This includes the Protestant collection. So where, outside of human tradition, do you find a clear statement of what is or is not scripture. Quoting what your preferred HUMAN collection says is meaningless unless you have something clearly outside of human tradition.

 

[GWH]

@GWH Do you agree with ATG that, "The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.” If so, what do you consider to be the Scriptures of Christ that are all one perfect unified whole? The KJV? The ESV? The RSV? All Bible translations? Or what?

Just as the Triunity is difficult to understand, the Scriptures are a hodgepodge that I have devoted a lifetime trying to harmonize.

IOW, what!

 

[GWH]

So let's see.


I'm certainly in harmony with anyone preaching Jesus Christ the Son of God, dying for our sins and rising again for our justification.

Other unscriptural traditions aside.


Which is first manifested by no ungodly works.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
God rested form His own good works. We rest from our own evil works.

Imputed righteousness by faith without works, is having faith toward God without past works, that were done without Christ.

Titus{3:4}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Certainly true. However, the principle is basic literary objectivity: No author should be taken out of context anywhere.

And when context is given, then correction must be accepted. Else personal integrity is at fault, no matter how little or much knowledge of the book.


Totally agree. While all readers can be ignorantly heretical in some of the Scriptures, destructive heresy is false teaching and preaching that corrupts the Scriptures:

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


Two NT teachings is already false: There's only one doctrine of Christ written by His apostles.

Act 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Perhaps you mean two rules and guidelines for interpreting and teaching Scripture accurately.

Scripture also has these two rules for objectively interpretation and teaching Scriptures:

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly divide between what is written, and what is not written.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Only teach and preach what is written. Not what is only personally believed without written verification.

Sola Scriptura.

True.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

However, the Son also allowed Himself to be falsely condemned for blasphemy, in order to first show the evil of all sinners on earth, and not just the wicked hands that slew Him.

Deu 19:9
If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;…That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The law of shedding the innocent blood of the beloved Son Jesus Christ, applies to every man that has sinned on earth: And so, all men's sins are shown guilty of His blood. And all men that sin must repent to be forgiven and cleansed of His blood guiltiness.

Heb 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Jas 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Since all men that sin make themselves enemies of God, then at Jesus' cross all sinners are shown enemies that must repent.

Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:



God loves all who are sinners, calling them to repentance.

Mar 2:17
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

God justifies all who were sinners, choosing them to glory.

Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.


Correct. No one in the name of God so loving the world, should preach God justifies anyone still doing evil.

Especially after showing sinners the evil of their own sins, and His love for their own souls, which is by the death, burial, and resurrection of His beloved Son Jesus Christ, the righteous judge of all the earth.

The only difference I noticed was that I view the NT as teaching one Gospel plus many doctrines that are not necessary to know in order to be saved, although the two I cited as guidance for interpreting GW are necessary at least implicitly.

 

[rewriter]

Just as the Triunity is difficult to understand, the Scriptures are a hodgepodge that I have devoted a lifetime trying to harmonize.

IOW, what!

The approach I am trying, that is getting favorable responses from seminary NT profs is to tear everything apart, learn what was known in the NT era and try to figure out how to put it back together differently. '

According to Acts, the early church liked the Jerusalem temple and worshipped there, but tradition claims that the loss of the temple did not seriously bother the early church. Both statements cannot easily be true, so how can they be reconciled. Think Virgil.

 

[GWH]

The approach I am trying, that is getting favorable responses from seminary NT profs is to tear everything apart, learn what was known in the NT era and try to figure out how to put it back together differently. '

According to Acts, the early church liked the Jerusalem temple and worshipped there, but tradition claims that the loss of the temple did not seriously bother the early church. Both statements cannot easily be true, so how can they be reconciled. Think Virgil.

The early church was kicked out of the temple and met in homes, so this seems easy to reconcile.

Think NT teachings about the church as the body of Christ.

 

[Journey_man]

I agree with you, scripture must be understood in both the immediate context, and within the greater context o h bible as a whole. I would dad one thing.

We must also understand the bible in the cultural and linguistic context it was written to fully understand. This takes time and considerble work but is well worth the effort.

Great post BTW!

Most of us don't have the time to study Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Latin etc. We should be thankful to the Lord for raising up faithful Ministers, who have devoted their lives to Theology.
We are blessed to reap the benefits of 2000 years of study by the Church Fathers. There is now no stone unturned, every single verse of the Bible has been exhaustively studied and fully interpreted.

Our Minister advised us to study the Bible in groups, rather than privately. He said if an Elder is not available, there should be at least one Deacon in the group.

The Church is the Body of Christ, each member has a different function. Some are called to teach and others to serve in various ways. God gives the gift of teaching and discernment to the Elders, so we should always consult them, if we're not sure of something.

 

[rewriter]

The early church was kicked out of the temple and met in homes, so this seems easy to reconcile.

Think NT teachings about the church as the body of Christ.

Yes, the early church met in homes, but that was especially true away from Jerusalem. Guess what, Jews who lived away from Jerusalem also did not consistently worship in the temple. As for Christians being booted from the temple, according to Acts, they were still worshipping there in the late 50's, and we don't hear about what went on after that, so where do you get your knowledge on that point from?

 

[GWH]

Most of us don't have the time to study Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Latin etc. We should be thankful to the Lord for raising up faithful Ministers, who have devoted their lives to Theology.
We are blessed to reap the benefits of 2000 years of study by the Church Fathers. There is now no stone unturned, every single verse of the Bible has been exhaustively studied and fully interpreted.

Our Minister advised us to study the Bible in groups, rather than privately. He said if an Elder is not available, there should be at least one Deacon in the group.

The Church is the Body of Christ, each member has a different function. Some are called to teach and others to serve in various ways. God gives the gift of teaching and discernment to the Elders, so we should always consult them, if we're not sure of something.

Yes, we should be willing to learn from others including elders, but they are not infallible, so their teachings should be compared with our own understanding of Scripture. Beware of authoritarians who try to come between you and God (1Tim. 2:5).