False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[rewriter]

The way you speak tells me that you’re questioning which “camp” is correct. Why do you use the word “humans?” Are we not all human, and made in His image? Do you know of EBEs (extraterrestrial biological entities)? Why the usage of “human”? And yes, I know they exist.

Yes, I’m aware around the world that there are different cultures who speak different languages (I more so am aware. lol). This is an obvious understanding that most educated people possess.

You either have faith in Him, or you don’t. There is a whole plethora of archaeological evidence corroborating the Bible to be true, if you want to go that route.


See, your statements in this paragraph tell me you’re not sure which camp is correct.

This is ok, if you’re searching. However, if you’re trying to derail Christian’s by preaching/ sowing doubt, this is not ok. I just need to know, what is you’re intent?

For me, the Bible, 66 books, hold a wealth of knowledge, wisdom, and a historical timeline of human existence and intervention by God in one region of peoples. And of course, it tells us how the world, and all the things that exist, began (this would include the universe).

Yes, this called having Faith in Him.


It’s like you are familiar with God’s word, but at the same time you’re questioning the integrity of the whole thing. This is very confounding!
It would seem you’re confused, to say the least.

I believe in Him, in the Trinity, and that His Son, Jesus Christ, is the only God/ Saviour who can save you in the End. There maybe other gods from the past that people seem to still worship, but they are dead.

We know that Jesus rose from the dead and is living, sitting at the right hand of God the Father. He is alive and well, watching over us, and blessing us. He even blesses those who are not His. Everything that we have are blessings from Him. Praise Him!

I have faith in His word, the Bible, to be true and complete. I stand by His word!

You have faith in your version of God and in your version of what the Bible says. That I readily accept. But do you have the faith to question?

It is true that there is much archeological evidence to support a good bit of the OT, coming to the NT it gets far more iffy. Some of the available evidence from the NT era actually contradicts what the Bible claims, not everything but some things, but such must be ignored according to some people. Likewise, passages in Paul that seem to contradict Acts must be "adjusted" as what appears to be a contradiction cannot possibly exist.

However, when one studies what was known and the customs of the NT era, itis possible to see things far differently than is traditionally done. To acknowledge this and to seek out the answers to the questions such raise is not to question God, rather it is to question what humans have elected to say about God and might well reveal some very human motives to say things the way they are said. Hidden hints in various gospels suggest major differences from what tradition tells us, differences that logically fit with 1st century realities. But when you already know all the answers, you need not consider these troubling questions that are known by the NT professors who teach the ministers who teach their congregations.

When the teachers, at whatever level, actively downplay the issues they are aware of, the next level down becomes even less aware that something needs investigated more fully. The issued never goes away, they just get swept under the rug until the pile gets so huge that it cannot be ignored. I prefer to attack that ignored pile under the rug before it gets much bigger, and I am amazed at how easy it can be to deal with when one actually digs through the pile of traditional excuses, but it also takes freedom from fear to do such, and that freedom from fear (what if everything I have been taught was wrong, then where am I) allows for deep investigations and some surprising gifts from God.

But a puzzle for you, what is the connection between John 2:1-11, 1 Corinthians 11:6-15, 2 Timothy 3:16 and the Orthodox Christmas, it made the news last year, but I have serious doubts that you either know or are willing to accept it as real. C H Dodd, Rudolph Bultmann and Raymond Brown all referenced a portion of the connection in their highly regarded commentaries on John.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, and when we put it all together (Eph. 2:8-9 + 10), we understand that we are saved via faith in the atonement of Messiah first, which is followed by godly/loving works as we persevere.

horse > cart

Yeah I would say by Grace through faith in him being who he is and also believing what he’s done to atone for our sins. And the love he has for us that motivates all he’s done. God so loved the world that he …..

We need to believe all of it is all I’m saying . Of course Jesus death and resurrection is essential . We could not be saved without it. But ….. jesus birth is the same because he couldn’t have lived as a man and died had he not been born …. Before that was the determination by God to do it beforehand ….. ect

This type of doctrine taught by Jesus is Gods only begotten teaching believers about God the father and his kingdom and eternal life , forgivness of sins according to HIM

we can begin to hear simple things but powerful ones the lord we believe in actually said

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is teaching believers in him about God thier Heavenly Father and how he truly is regarding us imperfect people who believe …….

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We really need to put our faith in Jesus before and after the cross as well as believing he died and rose for us

when we start believing things deeper it really helps alot like for example , this point when we believe this it helps tremendously as a chrirtian

“By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. but this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:22, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then we begin seeing it in other places and learn more about what it means for us

“Who is he that condemneth?

It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34-35, 37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What a relief to know that when fall
Short and we need him to , our high preist Jesus Christ who gave his life , is still there advocating and intercedeing for us and in our behalf at the throne in the most holy place

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[TruthDefender]

You have faith in your version of God and in your version of what the Bible says. That I readily accept. But do you have the faith to question?

I don’t feel the need to question something I have in full faith.

It is true that there is much archeological evidence to support a good bit of the OT, coming to the NT it gets far more iffy. Some of the available evidence from the NT era actually contradicts what the Bible claims, not everything but some things, but such must be ignored according to some people.

Could you specify the contradictions? I don’t know of any, but am always open to see things.

Likewise, passages in Paul that seem to contradict Acts must be "adjusted" as what appears to be a contradiction cannot possibly exist.

Again, plz be more specific?

However, when one studies what was known and the customs of the NT era, itis possible to see things far differently than is traditionally done. To acknowledge this and to seek out the answers to the questions such raise is not to question God, rather it is to question what humans have elected to say about God and might well reveal some very human motives to say things the way they are said. Hidden hints in various gospels suggest major differences from what tradition tells us, differences that logically fit with 1st century realities.

Oh, so you think that people/ translators purposely changed things to fit some of today’s lies? This is not surprising, since I’ve read about other things that have happened. Lol

But when you already know all the answers, you need not consider these troubling questions that are known by the NT professors who teach the ministers who teach their congregations.

Aah, this is where my ears kind of turn off. In God’s house, any man who knows enough Scripture can get up and preach, or lead a Bible study.

My point, you don’t need to go to seminary school to become a preacher. This insures that only Bible knowledge is handed down and taught, and not some type of dogma from a school.

When the teachers, at whatever level, actively downplay the issues they are aware of, the next level down becomes even less aware that something needs investigated more fully. The issued never goes away, they just get swept under the rug until the pile gets so huge that it cannot be ignored. I prefer to attack that ignored pile under the rug before it gets much bigger, and I am amazed at how easy it can be to deal with when one actually digs through the pile of traditional excuses, but it also takes freedom from fear to do such, and that freedom from fear (what if everything I have been taught was wrong, then where am I) allows for deep investigations and some surprising gifts from God.

Exactly! This is to my point in my upper statements made:

[
Aah, this is where my ears kind of turn off. In God’s house, any man who knows enough Scripture can get up and preach, or lead a Bible study.

My point, you don’t need to go to seminary school to become a preacher. This insures that only Bible knowledge is handed down and taught, and not some type of dogma from a school. ]

But a puzzle for you, what is the connection between John 2:1-11, 1 Corinthians 11:6-15, 2 Timothy 3:16 and the Orthodox Christmas, it made the news last year, but I have serious doubts that you either know or are willing to accept it as real. C H Dodd, Rudolph Bultmann and Raymond Brown all referenced a portion of the connection in their highly regarded commentaries on John.

Orthodox Xmas? I didn’t hear anything pertaining to this. I also don’t know who are those people?

Puzzle:
-Jn 2:1-11 oh, my favorite!
Jesus turns the water to the best wine ever at the wedding feast in Cana, according to the wedding master.
-1 Cor. 11:6-15
Yes, the head coverings! Lol
This seems to be a BIG controversy in the church, and frankly so is drinking wine. Lol

I think it is pretty clear, on both subject matters. However, there is one verse about the hair that seemed to negate the need for covering. To me that verse seemed out of place, because it actually contradicted what it said earlier. Who am I to ask, being a woman; I try to always cover anyway.

 

[rewriter]

I don’t feel the need to question something I have in full faith.


Could you specify the contradictions? I don’t know of any, but am always open to see things.

Again, plz be more specific?


Oh, so you think that people/ translators purposely changed things to fit some of today’s lies? This is not surprising, since I’ve read about other things that have happened. Lol


Aah, this is where my ears kind of turn off. In God’s house, any man who knows enough Scripture can get up and preach, or lead a Bible study.

My point, you don’t need to go to seminary school to become a preacher. This insures that only Bible knowledge is handed down and taught, and not some type of dogma from a school.

Exactly! This is to my point in my upper statements made:

[
Aah, this is where my ears kind of turn off. In God’s house, any man who knows enough Scripture can get up and preach, or lead a Bible study.

My point, you don’t need to go to seminary school to become a preacher. This insures that only Bible knowledge is handed down and taught, and not some type of dogma from a school. ]


Orthodox Xmas? I didn’t hear anything pertaining to this. I also don’t know who are those people?

Puzzle:
-Jn 2:1-11 oh, my favorite!
Jesus turns the water to the best wine ever at the wedding feast in Cana, according to the wedding master.
-1 Cor. 11:6-15
Yes, the head coverings! Lol
This seems to be a BIG controversy in the church, and frankly so is drinking wine. Lol

I think it is pretty clear, on both subject matters. However, there is one verse about the hair that seemed to negate the need for covering. To me that verse seemed out of place, because it actually contradicted what it said earlier. Who am I to ask, being a woman; I try to always cover anyway.

Yes I know that it is not necessary to go to seminary to learn to be a good preacher. I am aware of some "good preachers" who do not have much education. Some distort what the Bible says, and others proclaim as proven truth things that have never been proven.

But tell me, are you knowledgeable enough based on easily available knowledge of the law to be your own attorney is a serious criminal case or even a serious civil case? How about your medical knowledge, can you treat your own diseases? Seminary is a place to learn far more about the Bible than is commonly available, and to make people aware of known distortions that have popped up over the years and which have made it into some people's "common knowledge" about the Bible. Dogma is not just handed down from academic sources it is also passed down through the general community, that from the general community is more likely to be incorrect also.

Regarding the Orthodox Christmas, it is observed in early January, not December, and Dodd, Bultmann and Brown all have excellent reputations as scholars of the Gospel of John, making people aware of things that are not obvious without extensive education.

Now for contradictions between Paul and Acts, In Acts 9 Paul has a very dramatic conversion experience and then learns about the Christian faith later. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul references what he learned about things of the Christian faith and then recounts his experience of the risen Christ, but makes it sound as if his experience was no different than anyone else's. Now was it dramatic like Luke describes and far different than anyone else, or as Paul describes, was it very much like what everyone else experienced, including 500 at one time. And why does Paul imply that he never set out on a missionary journey until after the Jerusalem Council when Acts has it after he has returned. Why does Acts have Paul in places at times when Paul says he was not there? Who is correct, Paul or Luke, the presumed author of Acts?

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes I know that it is not necessary to go to seminary to learn to be a good preacher. I am aware of some "good preachers" who do not have much education. Some distort what the Bible says, and others proclaim as proven truth things that have never been proven.

Well, this I’m sure can go both ways. We are taught more to be like the noble Bereans, to always search the Scriptures to see if what is taught is true. Unfortunately, not everybody is like this.

But tell me, are you knowledgeable enough based on easily available knowledge of the law to be your own attorney is a serious criminal case or even a serious civil case? How about your medical knowledge, can you treat your own diseases? Seminary is a place to learn far more about the Bible than is commonly available, and to make people aware of known distortions that have popped up over the years and which have made it into some people's "common knowledge" about the Bible. Dogma is not just handed down from academic sources it is also passed down through the general community, that from the general community is more likely to be incorrect also.

I’m sure. But as I said, a lot of our people are relatively knowledgeable about God’s word. If something can’t be found in Scripture, then we normally don’t bother with it.

Regarding the Orthodox Christmas, it is observed in early January, not December, and Dodd, Bultmann and Brown all have excellent reputations as scholars of the Gospel of John, making people aware of things that are not obvious without extensive education.

I questioned it, because we don’t celebrate any holidays religiously (only as a fun family day).
Due to the fact that Scripture doesn’t tell us, or give us an example of these things, we do not add days to celebrate one thing or another religiously. We believe that it’s adding to Scripture, which we are warned against.

So it really doesn’t matter what day they come up with. We honor His birth, death, burial, and resurrection every first day of the week.

Now for contradictions between Paul and Acts, In Acts 9 Paul has a very dramatic conversion experience and then learns about the Christian faith later. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul references what he learned about things of the Christian faith and then recounts his experience of the risen Christ, but makes it sound as if his experience was no different than anyone else's.

I guess I’m not getting what your focus is on here? I don’t really see contradictions. It’s more or less the same story just said in a slightly different way. (?)
The account still happened!

I can tell you that when stories are retold over and over, the story can be told in a slightly different way by the same person. This really doesn’t change anything other than perhaps a slightly different emotional vernacular, maybe with different details, too; it could be that some of those details got left out.
It still happened!

Now was it dramatic like Luke describes and far different than anyone else, or as Paul describes, was it very much like what everyone else experienced, including 500 at one time. And why does Paul imply that he never set out on a missionary journey until after the Jerusalem Council when Acts has it after he has returned. Why does Acts have Paul in places at times when Paul says he was not there? Who is correct, Paul or Luke, the presumed author of Acts?

This just goes to show you that God worked through different people to physically write His word. Each person has a different writing style, just like authors today who write various books. They all have a personality. Maybe this is what you’re observing, the difference in writing styles?

They all can’t be writing with the same exuberance. I’ve noticed similarities in the NT, within the 1st 4 books, about certain events. Some go into detail about those events, others don’t, and some may not even mention it. This doesn’t mean that it never happened, though. It’s just 4 different men with 4 different styles of writing.

 

[rewriter]

Well, this I’m sure can go both ways. We are taught more to be like the noble Bereans, to always search the Scriptures to see if what is taught is true. Unfortunately, not everybody is like this.


I’m sure. But as I said, a lot of our people are relatively knowledgeable about God’s word. If something can’t be found in Scripture, then we normally don’t bother with it.

I questioned it, because we don’t celebrate any holidays religiously (only as a fun family day).
Due to the fact that Scripture doesn’t tell us, or give us an example of these things, we do not add days to celebrate one thing or another religiously. We believe that it’s adding to Scripture, which we are warned against.

So it really doesn’t matter what day they come up with. We honor His birth, death, burial, and resurrection every first day of the week.

I guess I’m not getting what your focus is on here? I don’t really see contradictions. It’s more or less the same story just said in a slightly different way. (?)
The account still happened!

I can tell you that when stories are retold over and over, the story can be told in a slightly different way by the same person. This really doesn’t change anything other than perhaps a slightly different emotional vernacular, maybe with different details, too; it could be that some of those details got left out.
It still happened!


This just goes to show you that God worked through different people to physically write His word. Each person has a different writing style, just like authors today who write various books. They all have a personality. Maybe this is what you’re observing, the difference in writing styles?

They all can’t be writing with the same exuberance. I’ve noticed similarities in the NT, within the 1st 4 books, about certain events. Some go into detail about those events, others don’t, and some may not even mention it. This doesn’t mean that it never happened, though. It’s just 4 different men with 4 different styles of writing.

Other than the information about Bereans, you are offering up traditional answers. Now Paul does not mention when or how he persecuted Christians, but in Acts Paul is made out to be a fool. Paul goes to the Jewish High Priest for permission to detain people in Damascus. Now the Jewish High Priest was appointed by the Imperial Legate of Syria and thus had only the authority granted him by this individual. But the Imperial Legate had zero authority in Damascus, so he was incapable of giving anyone else authority there. Why would Paul approach someone asking for authority when everyone would have known the man had none? Now the account would play well to Roman authorities, but the account, as recorded, could not have happened.

 

[TruthDefender]

Other than the information about Bereans, you are offering up traditional answers.

Traditional answers? Lol
Idk what you’re looking for? It’s like you’re bored with it all.
Have FAITH in what you read, friend!

-Now Paul does not mention when or how he persecuted Christians,

but in Acts Paul is made out to be a fool.

-Does it matter? NO

-Where does it indicate he was a fool? He persecuted the Christian’s to death, until Jesus stopped him from continuing. (Acts 8:1-3) He was fervent for Adoni, but ignorant about the Way. It would seem he was young. (Acts 7:57, mentions young Saul).

He consented in stoning Steven to death. (Acts 7)

Paul goes to the Jewish High Priest for permission to detain people in Damascus. Now the Jewish High Priest was appointed by the Imperial Legate of Syria and thus had only the authority granted him by this individual. But the Imperial Legate had zero authority in Damascus, so he was incapable of giving anyone else authority there. Why would Paul approach someone asking for authority when everyone would have known the man had none? Now the account would play well to Roman authorities, but the account, as recorded, could not have happened.

What does this matter? Why do you get bogged down with these type of minor details? If the Bible speaks about something then YES it happened.
Again, where is your faith?

 

[rewriter]

Traditional answers? Lol
Idk what you’re looking for? It’s like you’re bored with it all.
Have FAITH in what you read, friend!



-Does it matter? NO

-Where does it indicate he was a fool? He persecuted the Christian’s to death, until Jesus stopped him from continuing. (Acts 8:1-3) He was fervent for Adoni, but ignorant about the Way. It would seem he was young. (Acts 7:57, mentions young Saul).

He consented in stoning Steven to death. (Acts 7)

What does this matter? Why do you get bogged down with these type of minor details? If the Bible speaks about something then YES it happened.
Again, where is your faith?

I pay attention to details because details can matter. Progress in any field is not made by staying in the middle of the accumulated knowledge in the field. Rather it is gained by looking at the edges of the field and looking at what does not fit and then figuring out why it does not fit.

We are reading ancient histories in the Bible, histories written at a time when a good history, a history worth preserving, placed more emphasis on delivering a message than reporting the truth. Invented events or speeches were standard, even expected, if they advanced the desired message. Thus, it is important to recognize not only what is recorded but also what message was being delivered and then sift to determine what is likely true by today's standards rather than blindly accepting.

 

[TruthDefender]

I pay attention to details because details can matter. Progress in any field is not made by staying in the middle of the accumulated knowledge in the field. Rather it is gained by looking at the edges of the field and looking at what does not fit and then figuring out why it does not fit.

Ok, I get that, but this isn’t a field like medicine or physics where you stand a chance for advancement.

We are reading ancient histories in the Bible, histories written at a time when a good history, a history worth preserving, placed more emphasis on delivering a message than reporting the truth.

Yes, there is a lot of limited history, and ALL of what you read in the Bible is truth.

Invented events or speeches were standard, even expected, if they advanced the desired message. Thus, it is important to recognize not only what is recorded but also what message was being delivered and then sift to determine what is likely true by today's standards rather than blindly accepting.

Have faith in His word. Ask Him for more faith, otherwise you won’t please Him.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[rewriter]

So it is true when Paul says, "I did not" and also true when Luke says, "Oh Yes you did Paul"? To direct opposites are both true. that is some great logic. No thanks.

 

[Journey_man]

Yes, we should be willing to learn from others including elders, but they are not infallible, so their teachings should be compared with our own understanding of Scripture. Beware of authoritarians who try to come between you and God (1Tim. 2:5).

I used to share your view, but I have come to realize that most of my understanding and interpretation of the Bible was proven to be incorrect. I had to abandon my former views and embrace radically different interpretations of key Bible doctrines.

Some of the most difficult bible doctrines for me to accept, were the doctrine "election and predestination, to salvation". The doctrine of "eternal concise torment in hell" the doctrine of "Gods absolute sovereignty over every aspect of creation". That's just to name a few, I wrestled with these doctrines for over three years before I finally understood them and embraced them.

I don't think that I ever would have arrived at the conclusions, that I embrace now, if it wasn't for my pastors faithful preaching. And everything he knows was passed down to him from his forefathers.
We are taught to reject any new revelations or discoveries or interpretations, because there's nothing new under the sun. Everything is the same as it has always been.

If a person is deceived by false teachers, then it means they are not led by the Holy Spirit and God has handed them over to serve sin and Satan.

 

[Burn1986]

The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Therefore, every Scripture must be taught in context of all other Scripture, not just from verse to verse within a chapter of Scripture. To rightly teach any Scripture, we must do so in context of all Scripture taken together as one complete word.

If we separate one Scripture from other Scriptures, not just verse to verse within a certain chapter, but also from other chapters and books, then we are falsely teaching Scripture out of context. The end result with be contradicting the unity of Scripture written for doctrine and prophecy of God.

This is commonly done by unbelievers seeking fault with Scripture, to say God's words are not inerrant.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

From this one verse alone, anyone could teach that the God of the Bible is the creator of evil things, and so is an evil creator doing evil things. However taken in context of all Scripture together:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Here we see that God cannot do evil, because He can't even be tempted with evil. Nor does He tempt anyone to do evil. Therefore, Is 45:7 must be read and taught in context of James 1:13, that the God of the Bible cannot be an evil Creator creating and doing evil. Such as the pagan God Moloch.

Such false accusations against the God of the Bible, however is also done by believers, in order to teach their own false doctrine.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

By this verse alone, anyone could say that salvation is only by faith through faith, to the exclusion of repentance and works.

By that rule of exclusion from other Scriptures:

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,

By this verse alone, anyone could say that justification is by faith of Jesus Christ alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace.

Titus{3:3}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And by this verse alone, anyone can say that salvation is by the mercy of God alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace and faith.

However, taken in context of all Scripture together, not only unifies the gospel of Jesus Christ into one principle doctrine, but also does away with the ad absurdum of isolating one Scripture to the exclusion of others:

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is principally necessary for salvation by grace through faith toward God.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And works are necessary to be saved and justified by grace through faith of Jesus Christ.

And so, when we read any Scripture, we must always include all Scripture pertaining to the same thing, in order to know the unified principle gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Anyone teaching falsely from any certain Scripture, but excluding other Scripture pertaining to it, is advocating for a gospel and doctrine of another Christ, not the Jesus Christ of Scriptures.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Why us so much easier to say Christ than to say Jesus?

 

[Journey_man]

A hundred fifty years ago, when the work week was often 12-hour days, 6 days a week, there were lots of average people who had the time to learn Greek and Latin, they were called "educated", many also learned Hebrew. And if you study the history of theology, there are huge cases of doctrines and understandings of verses recorded. A verse suddenly goes from meaning one thing to meaning something totally different, doctrines go from being clearly spelled out in scripture to being clearly denied in scripture, and that is even within the same denominational tradition. Unless one can explain the drastic shifts, one cannot truthfully claim to have proper insight. And a hint, some of the drastic shifts coincide with political shifts, it became politically expedient to proclaim a different message than was previously pronounced, and sometimes the new message is the one that is preserved to this day.

My ancestors, going back 1,200 years, were all Roman Catholic. My grandfather told me that his generation was never encouraged to study the bible, unless a Priest was present.
The reason he was given (and I agree with), was "if you give the bible to ten different people, they will come back with ten different interpretations and views".
There are an estimated 49,000 Christian denominations in 2026. Many of these hold to radically different interpretations and they teach opposing doctrines. So the problem for those "seeking a Church they like" is how to discern a faithful Minister from a Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

If a seeker is looking for the most convincing minister, they will invariably choose the Wolf, because he is Satan's minister and Satan's ministers are masters of deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:12 "...that they all might be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

 

[rewriter]

My ancestors, going back 1,200 years, were all Roman Catholic. My grandfather told me that his generation was never encouraged to study the bible, unless a Priest was present.
The reason he was given (and I agree with), was "if you give the bible to ten different people, they will come back with ten different interpretations and views".
There are an estimated 49,000 Christian denominations in 2026. Many of these hold to radically different interpretations and they teach opposing doctrines. So the problem for those "seeking a Church they like" is how to discern a faithful Minister from a Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

If a seeker is looking for the most convincing minister, they will invariably choose the Wolf, because he is Satan's minister and Satan's ministers are masters of deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:12 "...that they all might be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness".

Teachings going back 1200 years are fine, to an extent, except over the past 1200 years, most denominations that even go back that far have changed their teachings. In fact, there are clear changes in Christian teachings going back to at least 325 CE and there is recognized a "quiet" period in the late 1st century to early 2nd and what suggests hints that changes were made in the teachings from before the early 70's, about 40 years after Jesus's death, to what was taught after. This post-70 change is not proven, but it looks plausible. There is even very plausible evidence that Mark and John were changed from their original forms at some early date and Revelation makes the most sense if there were three editions, each new edition largely preserving its predecessor but adding in new material.

Now who dares look at the evidence and determine its validity and who chooses to cower and cling fast to an unproven, because it dare be challenged (what would happen to this faith it if was truly tested), belief that nothing has changed.

 

[rewriter]

Ok, I get that, but this isn’t a field like medicine or physics where you stand a chance for advancement.

Are you claiming that theology is a closed field of study with nothing new being possible? If so, why are there so many differences among theologians and why are new theologies still being written?

Ecclesiastes 1:2 could be seen as arguing against studying and questioning as extensive knowledge without God in mind can lead to despair. However, Job can be understood as encouraging seeking new knowledge about God and His creation. Romans 1:20 can be understood as suggesting that some aspects of God might be better understood if nature is examined in addition to scripture. Refusal to question points that appear to be conflicts in scripture is not automatically a proof of faith, in fact it might well be a proof of lack of faith. God is not confined to what one tradition or another claims to know, rather God is beyond the boundaries we humans try to place on him.

Your God might be static, but my God is active and welcomes those who seek to know more and more about Him. You fail to see any chance to get to know God better, I see a loving partner who will respond when someone makes a clear commitment to learning more about Him. For over 40 years I struggled with the certainty that there was more to be known about God than I was being taught through tradition, especially since tradition kept changing at various times in the past when I studied it before things suddenly became clearer and I was able to see why traditions kept changing, that they changed for purely human motives, not divine ones.

You may stay like Job's friends (Job 42:7-8), I will be like Job (Job 42:1-6, 10-17) and rejoice in the fellowship of my God.

 

[GWH]

I used to share your view, but I have come to realize that most of my understanding and interpretation of the Bible was proven to be incorrect. I had to abandon my former views and embrace radically different interpretations of key Bible doctrines.

Some of the most difficult bible doctrines for me to accept, were the doctrine "election and predestination, to salvation". The doctrine of "eternal concise torment in hell" the doctrine of "Gods absolute sovereignty over every aspect of creation". That's just to name a few, I wrestled with these doctrines for over three years before I finally understood them and embraced them.

I don't think that I ever would have arrived at the conclusions, that I embrace now, if it wasn't for my pastors faithful preaching. And everything he knows was passed down to him from his forefathers.
We are taught to reject any new revelations or discoveries or interpretations, because there's nothing new under the sun. Everything is the same as it has always been.

If a person is deceived by false teachers, then it means they are not led by the Holy Spirit and God has handed them over to serve sin and Satan.

Well, please share what you now believe regarding the doctrines you mentioned, because I also have studied them and would like to compare our insights.

 

[ATG]

I see no problem with your quotes regarding scripture. But you are dodging the question,

You asked how we know what Scripture is, and I quoted from Scripture what Scripture is. You say you have no problem with that, but you don't believe what the Scriptures says is Scripture is truth.

where is a firm statement as to what GOD considers scripture, as opposed to what HUMANS claim is scripture? Humans have at least 4 different collections they call Christian scriptures,

And so, we go back to the Bible I read, that is unerring in all it's words from beginning to end, with no 'different verses' from one another. Which fulfills God's words about His Scriptures, that cannot be claimed by humans.

Psa 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Jhn 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

One word of God with many Scriptures of truth, completely untied and undivided.

and there are many other collections that other humans, non-Christians, claim are divinely inspired scripture.

I don't argue with unbelievers, that seek to confuse the true Scriptures of God, with the false musings and myths of men.

2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

As far as I know, none of these claims has indisputable support.

My Bible does.

You're more than welcome to your own versions of writings, whether from one book or another, according to your own will alone.

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone speaking of 'scriptures' of other Gods.

I only argue from the true Scriptures of the God of the Bible, that I read, believe, and do.

 

[Magenta]

There are an estimated 49,000 Christian denominations in 2026.

Denominations: The facts~

There are nowhere near as many denominations in Christianity as some suppose/believe.

The numbers thrown around are a terrible miscalculation based on a
lack of understanding perpetuated by, um, well, a dearth of knowledge.

Many sources say many things and many of those things are blatant falsehoods .

I have posted this before so am simply copy/pasting from an earlier post:

33,000 or 45,000, or 20,000, or 49,000 --- these are false numbers based on an egregious misunderstanding.

That misunderstanding gets thrown around as if it were truth when it is not.
Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are
nowhere close to 33,000 - 45,000 denominations. Many of these groups are merely subgroups
of larger denominational groups such as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, or Baptists.

Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford
University Press, 1982). Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. Still, not all of them are Protestants.
According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).

However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines
"distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group.
The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually
mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced
at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source

 

[ATG]

Your God might be static, but my God is active and welcomes those who seek to know more and more about Him. You fail to see any chance to get to know God better, I see a loving partner who will respond when someone makes a clear commitment to learning more about Him. For over 40 years I struggled with the certainty that there was more to be known about God

Agnostics welcome you wholeheartedly. They're also all about knowing, and not about doing.

Ecc 12:12
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

1Co 8:1
Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Jhn 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

 

[ATG]

No, there are Scriptures teaching God’s requirement for salvation, which is the Gospel, and there are teachings in Scripture that build on the foundation or doctrine of Christ.

Which is the gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Now I see why you may want to separate the two: A gospel of faith-alone justification apart from works, and a different doctrine of works, that is not for justification?

If so, then it's a unique approach that seeks to separate the gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ, in order to be justified by faith-alone part from your works.

Mat 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: