False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[Journey_man]

We are not forgiven for presently transgressing God's commandments, especially not already forgiven for any future transgressions.

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are only forgiven of past sins confessed and repented.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

If we do transgress, then we can confess and be forgiven as with any man. If we do not repent, we are not forgiven of our present transgression as with any man.








Jesus' sacrifice was complete, and by His resurrection He is able to forgive, wash, and reconcile to God any man that repents and believe the gospel.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


We are not forever perfected, until resurrection from the dead unto life.

Nonsensical.

But, if we are preaching future sins to ourselves and others, then we are not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to sin not.




True. Once legally pardoned, all past transgressions are forever forgiven and forgotten.

If we are transgressing the law, we make ourselves legally guilty again.

5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.



Daily confession is only for daily transgression. If we are preaching daily transgression and confession, we are not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to confess and transgress no more.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Forgiveness is by confession. If we are already forgiven of present and future sins, and we confess our sin, we are calling Him a liar.

If we are not fellowshipping with Jesus Christ in the light, we are walking in darkness with the world.



Believers that continue to transgress must repent to be forgiven, and restored to His salvation and fellowship in the light.

Jas 5:19
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Believers that are transgressing God's commandments, are not growing in obedience, but falling by disobedience.

The Bible reveals that born again believers still sin, although we are no longer enslaved by it. This ongoing struggle is called sanctification, the lifelong process where believers grow more like Christ while battling remaining sin.

In Romans 7:15–20, Paul describes an intense internal conflict, stating that the very good he wants to do, he does not do, and the evil he does not want to do, he keeps on doing.

When God regenerates a person it breaks sin's ruling power, but it does not completely eradicate the presence or capacity for sin in a human life. Believers experience an ongoing war within themselves between their renewed heart and the remaining remnants of a fallen nature.

Positionally, a believer is declared righteous and forgiven (justification). Practically, they remain imperfect pilgrims who trip and fall into sin (sanctification).
A regenerate person’s life is no longer characterized by a deliberate, unrepentant lifestyle of slavery to sin, but rather by grief over sin, repentance, and a desire to obey God.

 

[Journey_man]

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Scripture says there is no further sacrifice for believers that willfully sin against God. We make ourselves enemies of God with the sinners of the world.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Like any sinner, we can repent and confess to be forgiven of God by Jesus Christ.

The Jews that made themselves enemies of God by sinning against Jesus, can be grafted in again by repentance and faith. So can the Christians that sin against Jesus Christ.

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Scripture does not contradict itself. God is severe to them that sin against Him, and merciful to them that repent, to the Jew first and also to the Christian.

If, unlike the Jews, we as Christians can sin the same against Jesus, and yet not be broken off the same as the Jews, then Scripture would contradict itself. And we also make Jesus Christ a liar:

Jhn 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Please don't superimpose your untrue word over Gods true Word. If you're going to quote a verse of the bible, then don't add or remove words out of the verse.

Hebrews 10:26 does not say "there is no further sacrifice for believers that wilfully sin against God". Now go and read what Hebrews 10:26 actually says and ask yourself what compelled you to remove Gods Word and insert your word.

 

[Wansvic]

The keys to the kingdom that Jesus gave Peter are next recorded in Acts. Repentance and conversion commanded for for remissions of sin.

The keys to the kingdom that Jesus gave Peter are next recorded in Acts 10. Baptism commanded after remission of sins by the Holy Ghost.

The keys to the kingdom that Jesus gave Peter are also recorded in 1 Peter 3. Baptism is a figure of salvation.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I choose to believe what the Word of God says.

Everyone be baptized in the name Jesus for the remission of sin (Acts 2:38) Why wait, arise and be baptized and wash away your sin calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16) Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21).

 

[Wansvic]

Side showing again. No apostle preaches it.

It's about remission of sins only with water baptism.





If receiving the Holy Ghost is not with remission of sins, until water baptism, then having the Holy Ghost is made of none effect, until baptized with men's hands.

The Holy Ghost has power to save and remit sins, without the hands of men.




Yes, it is. If the newbirth is not complete by the Holy Ghost, until water baptism.





This is a gospel of parts to complete, in order to be completely born again.

How then can anyone be incompletely reborn by only receiving the Holy Ghost, until water baptized with your hands?




I.e. a newbirth gospel of pattern with incomplete parts, unto the newbirth is completed.

How then can anyone be incompletely reborn by only receiving the Holy Ghost, until the salvation pattern is completed with your hands?

Are you one of those that takes that saving honor to himself, and so preach it so fervently? Are you an Act 2:38 baptizer, and not only baptizee?

It's not possible to have no necessary part in another person's newbirth, if our hands are a necessary part of their newbirth. There are no midwife baptizers in the newbirth of the Spirit of God.

God receives all the honor and glory. I choose to believe and obey what He says. It is God who brings about the reality He promised. (Acts 2:4-42)

"And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9.

 

[ATG]

Fallacy: moving the goalposts.

You make one assertion, it gets challenged, so you modify it slightly in an attempt to make the challenge invalid.

I preach the same gospel every time. If you say I've changed it, then show how.

Usually when we charge someone is contradicting themselves, we're only misreading it. Especially when we don't give quotes and proof.

 

[Dino246]

I preach the same gospel every time. If you say I've changed it, then show how.

Usually when we charge someone is contradicting themselves, we're only misreading it. Especially when we don't give quotes and proof.

*sigh*...

You just did it again.

I didn't say that you changed "the gospel". Read my post CAREFULLY. Don't substitute words. Read EXACTLY what you wrote, and then read EXACTLY what I wrote in response. THEN respond... without changing the words for a third time.

 

[ATG]

The Bible reveals that born again believers still sin, although we are no longer enslaved by it.

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

The Bible reveals that if we sin, we are servant to sin.

We shouldn't falsely read God's words of righteousness with man's moral relativism. Frequency alone does not determine guilt. The law of God condemns the act of transgression.

If we are stealing, we are a thief. If we are murdering, we are a murderer. If we are making a lie, we are lying. If we are committing fornication, we are a fornicator. If we are doing such things, we are the unrighteous that shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's commands repentance from the act, not the frequency:

Eph 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

God's granted repentance and sanctification is completely from transgression, not less frequently doing evil.

This ongoing struggle is called sanctification, the lifelong process where believers grow more like Christ while battling remaining sin.

1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are washed and sanctified and justified from transgressions by Jesus Christ. We are not washed, and partially sanctified, and justified.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God only grants whole repentance and washing and sanctification and justification at once born again of Jesus Christ:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

If we are not wholly washed, sanctified, and justified apart from before, then we are not a whole new creature reconciled with Jesus Christ. We only make ourselves another religious creature reconciling ourselves to transgressing less than before.

 

[ATG]

In Romans 7:15–20, Paul describes an intense internal conflict, stating that the very good he wants to do, he does not do, and the evil he does not want to do, he keeps on doing.

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If we are the wretched double hearted, we can be delivered by Jesus Christ.

We should not abuse Jesus Christ's empathy with double heartedness, as justification for partial sanctification. We should rather repent with a whole heart, knowing that He desires and can make us wholly washed, sanctified, and justified toward God.

Jhn 8:26
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

When God regenerates a person it breaks sin's ruling power, but it does not completely eradicate the presence or capacity for sin in a human life.

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

If we are sinning against God, we are serving sin's ruling master over us, the devil.

When we are born again of Jesus Christ, our sins are taken away by the Lamb of God.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

If we abide in the Lamb, we remain His new creatures with sins taken away. If we abide not in Christ, we can fall to temptation and serve sin, not righteousness.

If we sin, we can repent and be washed, sanctified, and justified in Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Believers experience an ongoing war within themselves between their renewed heart and the remaining remnants of a fallen nature.

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of past sins, through the forbearance of God;

1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

We are born again as newborn babes, not as partly changed religious converts.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean.

We have the new divine nature of God, with no part of the old lust of the devil.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1Jo 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Our victory of faith in Jesus Christ is enduring temptation to overcome transgression. Our victory is not falling to temptation and transgressing God's commandments.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

If our victory is not overcoming the world as Jesus Christ, then neither our faith nor our victory is in Jesus Christ.

Positionally, a believer is declared righteous and forgiven (justification). Practically, they remain imperfect pilgrims who trip and fall into sin (sanctification).

We are what we are doing, whether good or evil.

Mat 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

We are not wholly washed, partially sanctified, and wholly justified by Jesus Christ. We are all or none of His. We repent of all for His sake, or He takes not away our old lust, and we receive none of His new divine nature.

We are not partially crucified with Christ:

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

We are not sinful pilgrims falling into transgression with the world. We are saints in Christ Jesus enduring temptation to overcome the world.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

A regenerate person’s life is no longer characterized by a deliberate, unrepentant lifestyle of slavery to sin, but rather by grief over sin, repentance, and a desire to obey God.

We should not preach the righteousness of God as moral relevance, neither of frequency nor of desire.

If we steal, we are a thief, whether much or little, hating or loving it.

If we hate our transgression, we repent of transgressing. If we repent not, we love our transgression more than we love God:

2Ti 3:2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy…lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

If we say that sin has no power over us, and yet we deny the power of God to sin not, then our form of sanctification is only in part and vain.

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[ATG]

*sigh*...

You just did it again.

I didn't say that you changed "the gospel". Read my post CAREFULLY. Don't substitute words. Read EXACTLY what you wrote, and then read EXACTLY what I wrote in response. THEN respond... without changing the words for a third time.

If I change what I teach from the Scripture, then I change the gospel I preach.

If I've contradicted myself and changed any part, show where and how. Otherwise, just saying so corrects nothing.

You quote exactly what I wrote, and then show exactly how I change the gospel I teach from Scripture.

Many times we say people contradict themselves, when we misread them. Especially when we don't quote them and show how.

if you want to quote and show it, I'll be glad to see it. Otherwise, this bickering around it is a waste of time.

 

[ATG]

Please don't superimpose your untrue word over Gods true Word. If you're going to quote a verse of the bible, then don't add or remove words out of the verse.

Neh 8:8
So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Hebrews 10:26 does not say "there is no further sacrifice for believers that wilfully sin against God". Now go and read what Hebrews 10:26 actually says and ask yourself what compelled you to remove Gods Word and insert your word.

I've quoted the Scripture and given my sense of it. If you believe it's wrong, then you show exactly how. I do this for others, if I believe a correction is necessary. I therefore expect others to return the courtesy.

Until then, I'll not bicker over accusations alone.

 

[Dino246]

If I change what I teach from the Scripture, then I change the gospel I preach.

If I've contradicted myself and changed any part, show where and how. Otherwise, just saying so corrects nothing.

You quote exactly what I wrote, and then show exactly how I change the gospel I teach from Scripture.

Many times we say people contradict themselves, when we misread them. Especially when we don't quote them and show how.

if you want to quote and show it, I'll be glad to see it. Otherwise, this bickering around it is a waste of time.

You are still trying to move the goalposts so you can prove me wrong. You just don't get it.

In your post #606, you stated, "Faith is only nullified by not keeping His commandments:".

My response to that post was this: "Wrong. Faith is not “nullified by not keeping His commandments”. The Christian’s relationship with God is neither established nor maintained by keeping the commandments. Paul tells us that in Galatians."

You responded in post #616: "Our faith is no good to God or man, if we are not keeping God's commandments to love one another:". You changed what you wrote.

Post 616 does not say "nullified"; it says "no good to God or man"; those don't mean the same thing. By changing the wording, you changed the argument.

Now you're saying I claimed you changed "the gospel" which I have not said. You changed what you said.

I suspect you still won't understand, and will continue to misrepresent what I am saying.

 

[ATG]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I choose to believe what the Word of God says.

Everyone be baptized in the name Jesus for the remission of sin (Acts 2:38) Why wait, arise and be baptized and wash away your sin calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16) Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21).

Since we're at an end with nothing new, then I'll conclude also.

Act 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be baptized after the manner of Peter, ye cannot be saved.

If we command a work of our own hands is necessary, before we can be saved, then we make void the faith in Jesus Christ and receiving the holy Spirit, until that command work is done by us. Jesus christ does not have power by Himself to save and remit sins, without our own hands.

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If we preach a gospel 'process' of salvation and newbirth, including man's part with hands, then we are preaching a gospel of partial salvation and newbirth, until our own hands have their part in the saving and newborn 'process'.

If our hands are necessary, before Jesus Christ can save and remit our sins, then He does not do so by Himself from heaven, but only with our hands on earth.

1Jo 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Thanks much. It's been worth it for me.

 

[ATG]

You are still trying to move the goalposts so you can prove me wrong. You just don't get it.

In your post #606, you stated, "Faith is only nullified by not keeping His commandments:".

My response to that post was this: "Wrong. Faith is not “nullified by not keeping His commandments”. The Christian’s relationship with God is neither established nor maintained by keeping the commandments. Paul tells us that in Galatians."

You responded in post #616: "Our faith is no good to God or man, if we are not keeping God's commandments to love one another:". You changed what you wrote.

Post 616 does not say "nullified"; it says "no good to God or man"; those don't mean the same thing. By changing the wording, you changed the argument.

I see. Since you gave no evidence of change, the naturally I though you were charging me of changing my own teaching from Scripture. Rather than just teaching something from Scripture in another way. No wonder I didn't get the problem.

Nullifying makes no good.

Now I've nullified the problem of 'change' and made it no good. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ATG]

God receives all the honor and glory. It is God who brings about the reality He promised. (Acts 2:4-42)

Not when Jesus Christ can't save and remit sins by Himself, without the hands of men doing their part.

Those men that have their part in the 'process' of salvation and newbirth, have their part in the glory and honor of God.

1Jo 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[Dino246]

I see. Since you gave no evidence of change

I did give evidence.

 

[Inquisitor]

Believers that are transgressing God's commandments, are not growing in obedience

What set of commandments are you referring to?

Noah's law?

Exodus 20?

Commandments in the prophets?

Acts 15?

The commandments that Jesus gave in the gospels?

The apostle's commandments?

Commandments that churches teach?

 

[Journey_man]

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

The Bible reveals that if we sin, we are servant to sin.

We shouldn't falsely read God's words of righteousness with man's moral relativism. Frequency alone does not determine guilt. The law of God condemns the act of transgression.

If we are stealing, we are a thief. If we are murdering, we are a murderer. If we are making a lie, we are lying. If we are committing fornication, we are a fornicator. If we are doing such things, we are the unrighteous that shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God's commands repentance from the act, not the frequency:

Eph 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

God's granted repentance and sanctification is completely from transgression, not less frequently doing evil.


1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are washed and sanctified and justified from transgressions by Jesus Christ. We are not washed, and partially sanctified, and justified.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God only grants whole repentance and washing and sanctification and justification at once born again of Jesus Christ:

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

If we are not wholly washed, sanctified, and justified apart from before, then we are not a whole new creature reconciled with Jesus Christ. We only make ourselves another religious creature reconciling ourselves to transgressing less than before.

Born-again believers still sin because indwelling sin remains in our earthly nature, sanctification is an ongoing lifelong process rather than an instant perfection, and believers still live in a fallen world.
Regeneration (the new birth) breaks the ruling power and dominion of sin, but it does not completely erase the presence of the sinful nature from a person's mortal body.

Justification is immediate, but sanctification—becoming holy and being conformed to the image of Christ—is a progressive, lifelong work of the Holy Spirit. Believers still stumble as we learn to put off old habits.
Christians inhabit un-glorified bodies while facing ongoing temptations from the surrounding fallen world and Satan.

While true believers still commit individual acts of sin, the new birth ensures we do not practice sin as an unbroken, unrepentant lifestyle or master. When we fall (like King David or Peter), the Holy Spirit convicts us, leading us to genuine repentance.

 

[Journey_man]

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If we are the wretched double hearted, we can be delivered by Jesus Christ.

We should not abuse Jesus Christ's empathy with double heartedness, as justification for partial sanctification. We should rather repent with a whole heart, knowing that He desires and can make us wholly washed, sanctified, and justified toward God.

Jhn 8:26
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.




Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

If we are sinning against God, we are serving sin's ruling master over us, the devil.

When we are born again of Jesus Christ, our sins are taken away by the Lamb of God.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

If we abide in the Lamb, we remain His new creatures with sins taken away. If we abide not in Christ, we can fall to temptation and serve sin, not righteousness.

If we sin, we can repent and be washed, sanctified, and justified in Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.




Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of past sins, through the forbearance of God;

1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

We are born again as newborn babes, not as partly changed religious converts.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean.

We have the new divine nature of God, with no part of the old lust of the devil.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1Jo 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Our victory of faith in Jesus Christ is enduring temptation to overcome transgression. Our victory is not falling to temptation and transgressing God's commandments.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

If our victory is not overcoming the world as Jesus Christ, then neither our faith nor our victory is in Jesus Christ.


We are what we are doing, whether good or evil.

Mat 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29} I
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

We are not wholly washed, partially sanctified, and wholly justified by Jesus Christ. We are all or none of His. We repent of all for His sake, or He takes not away our old lust, and we receive none of His new divine nature.

We are not partially crucified with Christ:

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

We are not sinful pilgrims falling into transgression with the world. We are saints in Christ Jesus enduring temptation to overcome the world.

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.






We should not preach the righteousness of God as moral relevance, neither of frequency nor of desire.

If we steal, we are a thief, whether much or little, hating or loving it.

If we hate our transgression, we repent of transgressing. If we repent not, we love our transgression more than we love God:

2Ti 3:2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy…lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

If we say that sin has no power over us, and yet we deny the power of God to sin not, then our form of sanctification is only in part and vain.

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

OK, so you don't believe that Paul was a born again Christian. Wow!

 

[Journey_man]

Neh 8:8
So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.


I've quoted the Scripture and given my sense of it. If you believe it's wrong, then you show exactly how. I do this for others, if I believe a correction is necessary. I therefore expect others to return the courtesy.

Until then, I'll not bicker over accusations alone.

Hebrews 10:26 doesn't say anything about believers, so I was wondering what compelled you to remove the word "we" and insert the word "believers" in it's place?

 

[Wansvic]

Since we're at an end with nothing new, then I'll conclude also.

Act 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be baptized after the manner of Peter, ye cannot be saved.

If we command a work of our own hands is necessary, before we can be saved, then we make void the faith in Jesus Christ and receiving the holy Spirit, until that command work is done by us. Jesus christ does not have power by Himself to save and remit sins, without our own hands.

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If we preach a gospel 'process' of salvation and newbirth, including man's part with hands, then we are preaching a gospel of partial salvation and newbirth, until our own hands have their part in the saving and newborn 'process'.

If our hands are necessary, before Jesus Christ can save and remit our sins, then He does not do so by Himself from heaven, but only with our hands on earth.

1Jo 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Thanks much. It's been worth it for me.:

Commands established by God:

Circumcision - OT
Water baptism in the name of Jesus - NT

Hope that helps.