Follow up thoughts of the "RAPTURE" from previous post!
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Yes believing the rapture is before is what I was brought up believing, but I guess now I want to study myself and believe for myself not just cause it was instilled in me. So I think right now I am neutral on the subject.
O
Osiyo
Guest
Peace and grace to you Lepidus, Biblically there will be a rapture, question is when will it occur, before, during the Tribulation or after the setting up of the Kingdom and the "books" are opened and everybody will be judged one way or the other.
This is the first vision of the Apocalypse. And, significantly and appropriately, it is a vision of our reigning Lord Christ. On the isle of Patmos rising out of the Aegean Sea, in exile for preaching the Word of God. On the Lord’s Day, John was in the spirit of worship and praise and adoration. And while he was worshiping God, he heard behind him a great voice as of a trumpet. And the one who speaks, first identifies Himself. This is all-important because of the amazing, fascinating chronicle that is to follow.
The signature, the author, the authority, the great voice that speaks as a trumpet is the voice of the Lord God. And twice in these few verses, does He identify Himself. Here in verse 8, and it is the same thing in verse 11—the voice as of a trumpet: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty” [Revelation 1:8]. So the author of this great Apocalypse is the eternal God—Christ Himself: All of the words of wisdom from heaven and all of the revelations from God are in Him. And the only touch that we have with heaven lies in the Revelation in Christ. He is the sum of the words and the wisdom and the revelation of God.
Then He also said, “What you see, write in a book” [Revelation 1:11]. In the 19th verse, He repeated the same mandate: “Write the things which you have seen, and of the things which are, and of the things which shall be, after these things.” Daniel was commanded not to write, (Daniel 12:4) “Seal up the revelation, until the appointed time. “But here John is commanded to write. It is now, in Christ, an open vision. Write these things for the people of God.
Revelation 4 [SUP]1[/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.
This 1st verse in the 4th chapter speak clearly of physical change taking place, physical to spiritual. When Christ returns for the blood-bought, first the dead in Christ will meet Him in the air (flying, neat thought) and then those that are alive, and we're out of here, physical to spiritual in the twinkle of an eye.
Long story short, those found under the thorn are those that are matured for the testimony of the Lamb (5th seal). There are also verses that state that in the end times the Spirit (he controls the spread of evil, holding it back) will be withdrawn, meaning no Holy Ghost, no Holy Ghost no believers, simple one and one or? Be blessed
This is the first vision of the Apocalypse. And, significantly and appropriately, it is a vision of our reigning Lord Christ. On the isle of Patmos rising out of the Aegean Sea, in exile for preaching the Word of God. On the Lord’s Day, John was in the spirit of worship and praise and adoration. And while he was worshiping God, he heard behind him a great voice as of a trumpet. And the one who speaks, first identifies Himself. This is all-important because of the amazing, fascinating chronicle that is to follow.
The signature, the author, the authority, the great voice that speaks as a trumpet is the voice of the Lord God. And twice in these few verses, does He identify Himself. Here in verse 8, and it is the same thing in verse 11—the voice as of a trumpet: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, which is, and which was and which is to come, the Almighty” [Revelation 1:8]. So the author of this great Apocalypse is the eternal God—Christ Himself: All of the words of wisdom from heaven and all of the revelations from God are in Him. And the only touch that we have with heaven lies in the Revelation in Christ. He is the sum of the words and the wisdom and the revelation of God.
Then He also said, “What you see, write in a book” [Revelation 1:11]. In the 19th verse, He repeated the same mandate: “Write the things which you have seen, and of the things which are, and of the things which shall be, after these things.” Daniel was commanded not to write, (Daniel 12:4) “Seal up the revelation, until the appointed time. “But here John is commanded to write. It is now, in Christ, an open vision. Write these things for the people of God.
Revelation 4 [SUP]1[/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.
This 1st verse in the 4th chapter speak clearly of physical change taking place, physical to spiritual. When Christ returns for the blood-bought, first the dead in Christ will meet Him in the air (flying, neat thought) and then those that are alive, and we're out of here, physical to spiritual in the twinkle of an eye.
Long story short, those found under the thorn are those that are matured for the testimony of the Lamb (5th seal). There are also verses that state that in the end times the Spirit (he controls the spread of evil, holding it back) will be withdrawn, meaning no Holy Ghost, no Holy Ghost no believers, simple one and one or? Be blessed
So m it's back to the Bible for you, If you ask the Holy Spirit to help you, He will show you the pre-trib rapture.
I always thought it was the Holy Spirit holding the anti-Christ back, But He will still be on the earth during the tribulation period, Otherwise no one can get saved during that time, And we know people do get saved in the tribulation period.
The one who is holding the man of sin back, Is the Church, 2 Thess 2: 3, & 6--7. Then he can come, v8.
L
Linda70
Guest
It is the "influence" of the Holy Spirit within the body of Christ/the Church that is restraining evil during this dispensation of grace. When the church is raptured, that "influence" will be gone and "all hell will break loose", so to speak. The Holy Spirit is God, so therefore He is ommipresent during the Tribulation period, but He will not be "indwelling" believers as He does during this dispensation. He will "come upon" people, as He did the in the Old Testament.
S
Sinnner
Guest
No he hasn't given the $10,000 away yet. No one can show him a scripture that proves pretribulation. I believe post trib, that's what the bible teaches. I know Joe talks a lot against OSAS and I do not think OSAS is true. You say Joe teaches it but it's what the bible says. He doesn't twist scripture at all to fit a specific doctrine. He preaches it right off of the page.
S
Sinnner
Guest
i can't see a rapture in the word. in Revelation 13 we see people taking the mark. Then in Revelation 14:15 the angel shouts with a loud voice, to Thrust in the sickle and reap because the harvest is ripe. When i read Revelation, i read it from outside in, for example, chapter 13, then chapter 17, 14 then 16, and see how they compare. then 15 is right in middle. Check it out.
Well you need to look in the right place. It is not in Revelation it is in 2 Thess. It is translated caught up not rapture but it has the meaning. English is such and incomplete language sometimes.
God did not make Noah tread water for forty days but placed him in the ark. God will not make His church endure the great tribulation but will take the church away. The tribulation is for Israel and those who want to destroy Israel from off the face of the earth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Do you think we are caught up to meet Him in the air right after the tribulation only to make an instant about face as He returns to earth to subdue His enemies?
Besides it does not fit into this scenario for the Church...
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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If you see it now you can rejoice and give glory to God. Not sorrow as those who have no hope.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you try reading the book of Revelation in two parts. Chapter 1-7. then read 8 then 22, then 9 then 21, and so forth, you may see why i don't believe in rapture. Notice how each one adds to 30? then it comes to the middle chapter 15.
...and do you have a verse that says that glorious appearing is BEFORE the Tribulation?? Because I have a verse that say's it is AFTER the Tribulation.