Does the question mark at the end make what I said a comment or a question?
For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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Does the question mark at the end make what I said a comment or a question?
Wow what a sucky attitude you have. I question your opinion stated as fact, and you get all offended and non-responsive.
I am surprised at your response, you say that I am being nonsensical in my comment. which I did not comment but ask a question. I point this out and I am giving attitude?
I am not offended at your question I simply pointed out that you downplayed what I said as speculation and then offered a different view which is also speculation.
Off the top of my head I can not. I studied this a while back when someone challenged me with the question of what a high day was. I would have to re look at it.
I don't think the scriptures are clear about it. Furthermore, everything I have found so far states that a high day is simply a festival sabbath.
Yes I have read many scholars who have said that and also others have said what I have said. To be honest I have found very little evidence from the scriptures themselves for either view. however as I have posted before, the high day mentioned in John is the same as the Sabbath commandment day mentioned in Luke. both narratives are the same in their chronology of events. Jesus dies on preparation day and then the Sabbath according to the commandment Luke/the high day John, follow and then the first day of the week.
So even if it could be proved that the high day is a feast Sabbath alone, the Bible still shows that in this case it fell on the 7th day Sabbath. But rather I think the fact that they are the same day suggests that John understood the coming together of weekly Sabbath with Feast Sabbath as a high Day.
This would then make the feast of unleavened bread prophetic down to the date. just as Passover was. so it makes sense. Passover fell on the 14th Jesus died on the 14th. The 15th was the feast Sabbath which fell on the weekly Sabbath. this is not luck, this Is a God who knew long before it took place.
John 19:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Jesus was killed on the 14th day and was buried that evening, the same night that the Passover lamb was eaten in the book of Exodus chapter 12. That same night after the blood had been put on the door posts, so the eldest wouldn't die, is when God passed over to take a look. Nightfall on the 14th is when the 15th day begins according to Hebrew counting of days.
Exodus 12:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
One must take these next verses into account. As you can see, the women were preparing spices to anoint the dead body of Jesus who had died on the 14th, and buried by the time the 15th day had started. They bought and prepared the spices on the 16th day after the Passover Sabbath.
Mark 16:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luke 23:56 (KJV)
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
They rested on another Sabbath which would have been the 17th. This Sabbath day was not a "high day" but was the seventh day of the week which followed the Passover Sabbath as these verses clarify. After the weekly Sabbath is over is the beginning of the next week. So we now know that the women bought and prepared spices on the day that was between these two Sabbath days.
Mark 16:2-3 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And very early in the morning the first day of the week, (this was the 18th day) they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
All this proves the words of Jesus when He said. "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:39-40 (KJV)
Jonah 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jesus was in the grave during both Sabbath days.
hi Josh
the lawyers will always undermine faith.
do avoid them if you find yourself upset.
and remember this:
Galatians 5
Freedom in Christ
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
The question is not about Him having to be raised on the sabbath, the question is about counting three days and three nights from His entombment. This was the ONLY sign He gave that He was the Messiah...
Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The sign that He was the Messiah is not the Sabbath, it is teh entombment for three days and three nights. Either He was in the tomb exactly three days and three nights or He was not the Messiah.
Why is it people have it into mind what day of the week our Lord, Yeshua, was raised from the tomb? Too many folks are assuming too much authority on selecting what day it was. I think some research could be made first on whether it was necessary or not to be taken down from the wood before a Feast Sabbath or not, then, at least we can assume it could have been either one if the law is the same for both the Sabbath of the Lord and a moveable Feast Sabbath.........does this make sense?
Perhaps someone has already spoken to this. If so, please, speak again.....
Perhaps someone has already spoken to this. If so, please, speak again.....
In other words, if we try to count three days and three nights as Jesus said, we cannot? Then He wasn't the Messiah...
Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
You missed this part...
Luk 24:46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
Mar 8:31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
So You quoted John 2:18-19 which says IN three days. Now add Luke 24:46 which says ON the third day and Mar 8:31 which says AFTER three days. There is only one possible time span that satisfies all three scriptures. Right at the end of 72 hours. That is in three days, on the third day and after three days.
You can't just decide to count it any way you want to. You must count what the scripture says.
That would not be true even if you didn't factor in Luke 24:46 and Mar 8:31. The scripture does not say He would be dead for three days and three nights, it says He would be in the tomb for three days and three nights.
No, the next day was not the weekly Sabbath...
Joh 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
The First Day of Unleavend Bread and it was on a Thursday, April 26, 31AD.
They were worried about keeping the First Day of Unleavened Bread. This is what happens when one does not read the scripture but rather just blindly believes what he has been told by "experts".
We all know what an expert is don't we? Ex means former and a spurt is a drip.
Luk 23:54 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.
Which Sabbath? We already saw in John 19:31 that this was not the weekly Sabbath but a high day, the First Day of Unleavened Bread.
Luk 23:55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid.
Ok, now let's pick this up in Mark's account...
Mar 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses observed where He was laid.
Mar 16:1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.
They bought their spices after the Sabbath was past. They did not buy them before the Sabbath.
Luk 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
So, they bought their spices AFTER the Sabbath (the high day - The First Day of Unleavened Bread) then they prepared them and rested according to the Commandment. What Commandment?
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
They rested according to the fourth Commandment. There were two Sabbaths that week.
Now please show me how you count three days twelve hours and three nights of twelve hours each from Firday sunset to before dawn on Sunday morning?
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Thank you John. That is a lot of information.
Here is my question, more specifically posed. We know our Lord was celebrating the Passover with what is popularly called "the last supper," thus is was the feast of Passover.
Are the laws for preparation the same for the Shabbat (rest) of a feast (Passover), or is preparation day exclusively for the Sabbath of the Lord, that is to say the weekly Sabbath?
You may readily see the implications if they are the same laws of preparation for a Sabbath of Passover.
Thank you again.
God bless you always in Yeshua, amen...........
Here is my question, more specifically posed. We know our Lord was celebrating the Passover with what is popularly called "the last supper," thus is was the feast of Passover.
Are the laws for preparation the same for the Shabbat (rest) of a feast (Passover), or is preparation day exclusively for the Sabbath of the Lord, that is to say the weekly Sabbath?
You may readily see the implications if they are the same laws of preparation for a Sabbath of Passover.
Thank you again.
God bless you always in Yeshua, amen...........
First of all Passover is not a Sabbath...
Lev 23:5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD's Passover.
Exo 12:6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it.
Exo 12:8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
Exo 12:9 Do not eat it raw, nor boiled at all with water, but roasted in fire—its head with its legs and its entrails.
Exo 12:10 You shall let none of it remain until morning, and what remains of it until morning you shall burn with fire.
Exo 12:11 And thus you shall eat it: with a belt on your waist, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. So you shall eat it in haste. It is the LORD's Passover.
Exo 12:12 'For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.
They prepared and ate the Passover Lamb on the 14th. We take the NT symbols on the 14th. The 15th is holy convocation and a Sabbath...
Exo 12:15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses. For whoever eats leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel.
Exo 12:16 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.
First and last (seventh) day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath. We have seen that the Passover is on the fourteenth of the first month. When is the First Day of Unleavend Bread (the high day which is a Sabbath)?
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.
The First Day of Unleavend Bread is on the fifteenth of the month, the day after Passover. Passover is a Feast day, but not a Sabbath, it is also the preparation day for the First Day of Unleavend Bread.
There is no command that makes the day before a Sabbath the preparation day but we understand we should prepare (do the heavy lifting) on the day before a Sabbath...
Exo 16:23 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "
The proof is also in the law and the prophets. Like I have quoted those many times to who deny that the law is still effective for Christians today.
John 5:39-47 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]I receive not honour from men.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
How our Lord lived, and taught all match with the law and the prophets.
the "last supper" was not Passover, because when Yahdah the betrayer (Judah Iscariot) went to betray the disciples thought Yahshua sent him to get the things for Passover. Why would they think he was going to get the things for the meal they just finished eating?
And the Passover day is a preperation day, most "high Sabbths" or "Feast Days" are no work days, just worship Yah, but the Passover is a preperation and when the sun goes down on it Feast of Unleavened starts and that is when one eats the meal.
Messiah was killed right when the Passover lambs were being killed, for He is the real Passover Lamb.
I am certain now that it was the Passover Shabbat and not that of the Lord. I had thought so, but I did not say for certain without consulting the Word. Please forgive me for not having done so already myself, it is that I just hate so much reading. Yahweh bless you always, amen.
Mat 26:1
And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
Mat 26:2
Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat 26:16
And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.
Mat 26:17
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Mat 26:18
And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mar 14:1
After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
Mar 14:2
But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
Mat 26:1
And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
Mat 26:2
Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat 26:16
And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.
Mat 26:17
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Mat 26:18
And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mar 14:1
After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
Mar 14:2
But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
This site helped me with understanding the Bible nights and days according to ancient scripts.
Jewish Time
In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night (the appearance of the stars) followed by the morning (which technically begins with the appearance of the North Star). According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. For that is how the Torah describes it: “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”
For this reason, the Sabbath begins on Friday night and ends with the appearance of the stars on Saturday night. The same is true for the major holidays such as Passover, Sukkot, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the fast day of Tisha B’Av, and Hanukkah and Purim.
Beginning the day with the night is, in a sense, a metaphor of life itself. Life begins in the darkness of the womb, then bursts into the brightness of the light and eventually settles into the darkness of the grave, which, in turn, is followed by a new dawn in the world-to-come.
Life consists of light and dark: “And there was evening and there was morning.” What we make of time is what counts.
With this in mind we can understand that the Passover was eaten on day 15 at night when God passed over to check out the blood on the door posts.
Jewish Time
In Jewish time, the day begins with the onset of night (the appearance of the stars) followed by the morning (which technically begins with the appearance of the North Star). According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. For that is how the Torah describes it: “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”
For this reason, the Sabbath begins on Friday night and ends with the appearance of the stars on Saturday night. The same is true for the major holidays such as Passover, Sukkot, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the fast day of Tisha B’Av, and Hanukkah and Purim.
Beginning the day with the night is, in a sense, a metaphor of life itself. Life begins in the darkness of the womb, then bursts into the brightness of the light and eventually settles into the darkness of the grave, which, in turn, is followed by a new dawn in the world-to-come.
Life consists of light and dark: “And there was evening and there was morning.” What we make of time is what counts.
With this in mind we can understand that the Passover was eaten on day 15 at night when God passed over to check out the blood on the door posts.
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Since I was given reason by the Holy Spirit I have know Yeshua, Jesus, is the Passover Lamb of Yahweh. It is difficult for me, sometimes even painful to read or hear people wondering about all of this. Even John the Baptist called Him the Lamb of God.
Now, if He is the Lamb of Yahweh, does it not stand to reason His sacrifice would be sometime during the Passover celebration?
In Egypt (Mizraim) the Children of the demonstration Israel were passed over by the Angel of Death providing they had marked their doorposts and lintles with the blood of the lamb slaughtered for each households' first Passover at the instruction of Yahweh by way of Moses................
Now, if He is the Lamb of Yahweh, does it not stand to reason His sacrifice would be sometime during the Passover celebration?
In Egypt (Mizraim) the Children of the demonstration Israel were passed over by the Angel of Death providing they had marked their doorposts and lintles with the blood of the lamb slaughtered for each households' first Passover at the instruction of Yahweh by way of Moses................
Luke 22:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
[h=3]Luke 22:13-16[/h]King James Version (KJV)
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
King James Version (KJV)
7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
[h=3]Luke 22:13-16[/h]King James Version (KJV)
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.