for those who do not sin

[homwardbound]

Hi Homewardbound,

I understand totally what you are saying... But, as I have said I disagree with you.

Well, okay we all are free to have our free choice. I know this though by no other way have I ever been free 100%. Anyway, I know God just love you and you are in a relationship with God and you, knowing God will never leave you nor forsake you, showing you the truth that sets you free, and you shall be free indeed.
You may not see it as I see it, and that is okay for I trust God will lead you to be able to stand and make no Judgment of you
Trusting God
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The Law of Liberty[/h]14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

Thank you Brother in Chirst

 

[homwardbound]

You assume right!!

Thanking God, truth per God who is the propitiation for all sin of the world, in him we learn to trust more so and more so, to the point we are too busy praising and worshipping in God's Spirit where no sin can ever occur.
Thanks be to Jesus and Father, ABBA!!!!!!!!!!! Father
At least this I what it is for me

Thanks Sister

 

[john832]

You assume right!!

Hmmm, slight credibility problem...


1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[john832]

There seems to be many who are self deluded thinking that they are 'sinless' rather than set free from the bondage of sin. Secondly, They forget that although when we repent God is faithful to forgive and see us as white as snow through His son, we still are tied to our old nature, we battle daily with the flesh. But one day we will be totally 'sinless', either when in death or when our Lord and saviour returns. But I can honestly say that you have been defrauded with lies if you think you are without sin.

Again this all comes down to faulty reading and false teaching of Scripture.

Paul referred to this being set free as not under the Law. The Law no longer can exact a death penalty on sins that are forgiven and removed from us.

 

[AgapeWarrior]

I accepted Sinlessness when I accepted all that Jesus did at the cross and then accepted Him as Lord by which accepted God's promise that I had been forgiven of all sin (past, present and future) and his transforming of heart, mind and spirit in me changing me from the sinner man into the adoption as a child of God. whereby his Spirit dwells within, which brought forth his Love and the mind of Christ that is the mark and seal that God sees when he looks upon his children which are his glory. For by that love all his standards through the law and otherwise are fulfilled. thereby the truth Is we have become sinless by Grace through faith in accepting God. when did I know I was sinless? when I first believed God's word is reality and endorsed that all he said was and is trustworthy. so what work did I do to achieve sinlessness? none! acceptance is not work, however believing is, albeit nothing we could ever boast about. All Glory To God! May God touch us all deeply and lead us all to that personal relationship wherein we can call him Abba father and be as one with him and each other. (Remember: John 6:28-29 28 They replied, "We want to perform God's works, too. What should we do?" 29 Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent." it's All about Him.)

 

[phil36]

So those who believe they are sinless... how do you deal with Roamns 7 and Pauls own struggle.

You all seem very good at promoting Romans 6 (and Might I add, neglecting its context from 1:18 - ch8.) and of course John himself..

How do you reconcile that if you say you have no sin you make God a liar and his word has no place in us?

 

[AgapeWarrior]

It is a mind-set, A heart matter. if you can perceive you are forgiven when you ask to be and accept Jesus, then you can also accept that you are redeemed. the wrongs, mistakes and all that stuff aught not be the focus. with the Holy Spirit as our conscious he is the empowerment to be Holy, it is He whom rightly discerns good and evil for us, he teaches us and reveals all truth so then it is only when you accept grace and make life about worshiping God that you can be one with him. sinlessness at that point is a by-product of His love. we do not use grace as an excuses to sin but rather we accept that sin is only relevant if you doubt that Jesus has finished all the works. the only significant sin is unbelief, so as we walk in love and faith we are not subject to that sin which again I say then sin is not the great weight that drowns us into the abyss, rejecting God through disbelief is. if your a child of God and have the Holy Spirit living in you then you according to the word of God are sinless regardless to what category you put your self in. it's only a matter of accepting or rejecting that biblical principle. Faith makes the difference. Line the word of God up by the word of God and test all spirits by His Spirit, forget human reasoning in spiritual matters, doubt not only believe. God is alive and we are alive in him, if we but humble ourselves, seek, ask and knock there is so much more that God has in store for us. Jesus set us free, why then do so many fumble about as slaves, so burdened and hopeless it's because they make this faith life about works, achievements rather than about God. Listen brothers and sisters you will never be sinless by your own hand of discipline or any efforts what so ever period. All you can ever do is accept God in fullness and in faith receive all that entails.

 

[phil36]

Hi Agapewarrior,

It would help if you made some paragraph breaks..its very unnatural to read one huge block of text. The subject matter isn't about a frame of mind or where you focus. Yes I understand about the blood of Jesus covering us and that's how God see's us.. But that's not the issue that is being presented by some either.

I'l refer you to my above post.

 

[AgapeWarrior]

My last post here and sorry for any and all grammar mistakes. the only one born sinless was and is and always will be Jesus. the rest of us are only sinless after we are born again. therefor it's not a matter of whom of us never sinned but rather it's about whom of us accepts the freedom from sin that came through Jesus. no matter how anyone words it or tries to flip the script the bottom line is it will never be about what we do or don't do in terms of actions through human efforts. Yes we act out in faith and in love and that is fine. but believing is the only work, the only choice we have to make when it comes to having our name written in the book of life. It's about him that's all I know. thank you for this post. May the Love of God dwell in you all richly.

 

[phil36]

Hi Agapewarrior,

Sorry, I didn't mean your spelling or grammar, I am the worlds worst at bad spelling and grammer an typing, I just meant to break up your text into smaller chunks.. It just makes it easier to read.. sorry again if it sounded like I was talking about spelling etc..it wasm't.

I understand what you are saying and what others are saying.. but there is a huge difference between, how God see's us through his son's perfect work on the cross and what we actually are..sinners saved by grace. There is a big difference in saying that God's see's me as sinless (through His son) and proclaiming that you are free from sin.

Again I refer to my post above, about Paul's struggle with sin and what John says that if we say we are without sin then we make God a liar... how does that reconcile to a view of now being sinless. And yes I confirm that we need to battle daly and fight to be free of sin!

 

[homwardbound]

So those who believe they are sinless... how do you deal with Roamns 7 and Pauls own struggle.

You all seem very good at promoting Romans 6 (and Might I add, neglecting its context from 1:18 - ch8.) and of course John himself..

How do you reconcile that if you say you have no sin you make God a liar and his word has no place in us?

Rom. 7 is just another way Paul is showing us all the battle between flesh and Spirit. One serves God and the other does not.
Very plain to see what the battle is and that as a married woman's Husband is dead, she is freed to be married to another freed from Law. The married to another is Christ Jesus, dead to Law the letter of the Law, dead to flesh efforts.
Getting co-crucified with Christ in the flesh is the narrow road to new life found in the resurrection of Christ, by God the Father or don't you see this truth
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

So if you are dead to flesh, hoe can it control one any longer?
Galatians 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,

! wonder what is up with this, Paul's statement
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

 

[homwardbound]

Hi Agapewarrior,

There is a big difference in saying that God's see's me as sinless (through His son) and proclaiming that you are free from sin.

Again I refer to my post above, about Paul's struggle with sin and what John says that if we say we are without sin then we make God a liar... how does that reconcile to a view of now being sinless. And yes I confirm that we need to battle daly and fight to be free of sin!

Born again you are made sinless, Holy, acceptable in Father's sight, This is done for us all at the death, just not all have yet received this and thus moved onto the resurrection as where the new born again life is
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

Thus one dies with Christ, Baptized with Christ, unto death with Christ

Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Death to self comes first, then life comes in the resurrection after death of self. Are you willing to be dead to self with Christ on the cross? so that you might gain access to new life in the resurrected Christ?
This is what I am talking about and as I hear agapewarrior saying as well
The battle is between flesh and Spirit of God, now if your flesh self is dead with Christ, then you shall and are made alive with the resurrected Christ. Do you believe God?
Paul did and put no confidence in the Flesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You see prayerfully so.

 

[phil36]

Hi Homewardbound.

You do know that you are misusing Galatians 1:16.. Paul is in defence of his apostleship.. What Paul is saying is that he got his gospel directly from God, and that not from man - as in verse 17 he did not directly go to Jerusalem. The flesh and blood you find in the KJV, actually just means man/woman or human being. Therefore, Paul is saying nothing about the sinful nature, he is just saying that his gospel came directly from Christ and not man (flesh and blood) as his critiques were claiming.

Now I fail to see how you can use this regarding your claim to be sinless. And this just goes to show how far some are willing to twist scripture to fit their purposes, maybe you learned this from others..but no matter what its not what Paul is saying.

Another classic example of taking snippets of scripture out of context.

 

[phil36]

Hi Homewardbound,

In response to your post #272 I do not take what you think scripture is saying especially when we see how you use scripture..read my post above #273

 

[homwardbound]

Hi Homewardbound.

You do know that you are misusing Galatians 1:16.. Paul is in defence of his apostleship.. What Paul is saying is that he got his gospel directly from God, and that not from man - as in verse 17 he did not directly go to Jerusalem. The flesh and blood you find in the KJV, actually just means man/woman or human being. Therefore, Paul is saying nothing about the sinful nature, he is just saying that his gospel came directly from Christ and not man (flesh and blood) as his critiques were claiming.

Now I fail to see how you can use this regarding your claim to be sinless. And this just goes to show how far some are willing to twist scripture to fit their purposes, maybe you learned this from others..but no matter what its not what Paul is saying.

Another classic example of taking snippets of scripture out of context.

I have never claimed to ever be sinless in and of myself ever. I claim God as sinless and the only one good. Now since I died to self with Christ I an dead to sin by the death with Christ, so that somehow I might see the resurrection and live therein all the time. So I die daily, being co-crucified daily with Christ. The same as Paul, and do claim as Paul claimed, and we all are to be taught by God not man as in Hebrews 8 it states this. Sorry you do not see becoming and being dead to self by the death of Christ. Self is thus still in your way and keeps you either guilty or self righteous

All in love to you, there is no condemnation for those that seek after the Spirit of God. Romans 8 a very good chapter ofbeing dead to flesh and alive to Spirit of God[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]All for Christ[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[phil36]

Hi Homeward,

A simple question for you.


Do you sin?

 

[Kerry]

If I can help Homeward out and with His permission. Do you know the depth of sin. We are not talking about drunkenness or adultery as most know it. When a saint like Homeward sins. These are sins that are how can I say. Maybe disobedience, for instance the Lord wants you to say something and you don't or the Lord is telling you something and you think it is just yourself. The sins that some one like homeward would commit are totally different than the sins of the world. Like getting angry over someone that persecutes you for no reason or lies about you. Perhaps you were lead by the Spirit to help this person and you did not do it. This is a totally different thing. I hope both of you understand.

 

[phil36]

Hi Kerry,

I understand fully what sin is... whoever is not disobedience sin?

My question still stands now to you and homewardbound

Do you sin?

If I can help Homeward out and with His permission. Do you know the depth of sin. We are not talking about drunkenness or adultery as most know it. When a saint like Homeward sins. These are sins that are how can I say. Maybe disobedience, for instance the Lord wants you to say something and you don't or the Lord is telling you something and you think it is just yourself. The sins that some one like homeward would commit are totally different than the sins of the world. Like getting angry over someone that persecutes you for no reason or lies about you. Perhaps you were lead by the Spirit to help this person and you did not do it. This is a totally different thing. I hope both of you understand.

 

[homwardbound]

[h=3]Romans 8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Free from Indwelling Sin[/h]8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [SUP]11[/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
[h=3]Sonship Through the Spirit[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
[h=3]From Suffering to Glory[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; [SUP]21 [/SUP]because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
[SUP]26[/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [SUP]30[/SUP]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
[h=3]God’s Everlasting Love[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? [SUP]32 [/SUP]He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? [SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [SUP]36 [/SUP]As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, [SUP]39 [/SUP]nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.







I rest, as in this it is written to what is and what is not, we are to be dead to sinful flesh, by the death of Chirst and alive to God through the death doorway of the cross, death to self
! Cor. 15 real clear on the resurrection, if anyone cares to read it and see no life without the death

[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:35-38[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]35 [/SUP]But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

[Kerry]

Hi Kerry,

I understand fully what sin is... whoever is not disobedience sin?

My question still stands now to you and homewardbound

Do you sin?

Do I put my pants on. Do you. We all need the cross every day of our life. The question is, do we accept it. All men sin and fall short of the glory of God.