FOR WHAT I AM DOING........PART 1

[MahogonySnail]

I am saying that pastors cannot and do not have a certain type of biblical knowledge. If they did, then why do so many different pastors disagree with one another, you all read from the same bible right? If you ask a pastor a question, they will find a good practical answer. But if you want the facts and figures and deeper understanding of the context and history, you better off going to the library and getting a book by a theologian.

It is strange however that a pastor would down play or ignore the office of the teacher, which is who theologians are. They may not have as much practical experience or skills, but they are gifted in knowledge and understanding which the pastor needs every time they are asked a question. So you cannot say "I ignore teachers". Because that's why there's plenty of pastors and preachers around, and some come in here too, who even deny the Trinity and things like this, and whose doctrine is up the creek so to speak.

 

[lighthousejohn]

I am saying that pastors cannot and do not have a certain type of biblical knowledge. If they did, then why do so many different pastors disagree with one another, you all read from the same bible right? If you ask a pastor a question, they will find a good practical answer. But if you want the facts and figures and deeper understanding of the context and history, you better off going to the library and getting a book by a theologian.

It is strange however that a pastor would down play or ignore the office of the teacher, which is who theologians are. They may not have as much practical experience or skills, but they are gifted in knowledge and understanding which the pastor needs every time they are asked a question. So you cannot say "I ignore teachers". Because that's why there's plenty of pastors and preachers around, and some come in here too, who even deny the Trinity and things like this, and whose doctrine is up the creek so to speak.

I have never heard such an arrogant, dismissive and unchristian statement. There are many pastors who are also good theologians. I do not dismiss their gifts, either as teachers or as pastors. I thank God for theologians who teach the bible and not doctrine. The reason I tend not to listen to theologians that teach doctrines is because they debate issues that are not relevant to biblical growth. So many of them are puffed up with church doctrinal dogma. Baptist theologians versus Church of God vs Adventist Vs Presbyterian and on and on.

Biblical theologians honestly and earnestly debate biblical issues and ignore religous debates, not favoring one denomination over another.

You say "I am saying that pastors cannot and do not have a certain type of biblical knowledge." Do you apply this supreme knowledge to all pastors or just the ones you think you know.

You also say that I ignore or play down the office of teacher. You are wrong in your thinking because the church cannot function without all five offices working together to forward the gospel. No one office is more important than another to me.

By the way, you did not answer my question, Have you ever been used by God to lead someone to Christ? If not, Give it a try. You will find no greater joy.

I still find your comments offensive and I still demand an apology.

 

[lighthousejohn]

I am saying that pastors cannot and do not have a certain type of biblical knowledge. If they did, then why do so many different pastors disagree with one another, you all read from the same bible right? If you ask a pastor a question, they will find a good practical answer. But if you want the facts and figures and deeper understanding of the context and history, you better off going to the library and getting a book by a theologian.

It is strange however that a pastor would down play or ignore the office of the teacher, which is who theologians are. They may not have as much practical experience or skills, but they are gifted in knowledge and understanding which the pastor needs every time they are asked a question. So you cannot say "I ignore teachers". Because that's why there's plenty of pastors and preachers around, and some come in here too, who even deny the Trinity and things like this, and whose doctrine is up the creek so to speak.

For the words you used against me, I forgive you. I no longer require that you apologize to me as I have prayed about this and felt God releasing me. I do not desire that there be any bitterness between us. I hope tha we can achieve full reconciliation through the power of the Holy Spirit.

In Christ,
John Tyler

 

[MahogonySnail]

First of all, I think you're being a little bit oversensitive. Secondly, will you use the number of people who you have led to salvation to grandstand and show how much more qualified you are in interpreting the bible, than I? If so I won't be part of it. And thirdly, you will receive no apology from me. As far as I recall, the bible teaches it is the one who is offended who must forgive the offender.

It is rare to find a pastor who is a good theologian. It is rare to find a pastor who will go against the grain and admit their doctrinal position or denominational position might be wrong. Based upon your words, it's rare to find a pastor who will accept the writings of more learned people such as theologians. It makes me wonder if that is the main cause why pastor's doctrines are often somewhat lacking in accuracy and depth. Why has no pastor in here highlighted the fact that sometimes biblical authors used present tense to describe past events? Why is it up to the lay person to consult their bible commentaries and research?

 

[MahogonySnail]

I don't consider this issue merely a trivial or religious matter. Because if Paul was not half sinner half saint as some in here portray him to be, then we might be guilty of slander against one of the Lord's Holy apostles. The carry on consequences is that sinners may find justification for their sin in the apostle Paul. If Paul was struggling with sin? Why can't I?

Although so far it seems the only struggle with flesh the OP has been able to identify in the apostle Paul, was low self esteem due to short stature. And even then that itself is a long call to make. So this man, used mightily by God, putting himself on the line every day in danger and harms way, thinking nothing of his own safety or well being or life, had low self esteem issues because he was short? It doesn't quite make sense.

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Mahogony,

I am currently in Chicago, at a convention and will be back home in a day or so, I will continue to answer these strange sounding arguments, or so they are called in Scripture.............For some theologically-nonsensical reason, you seem to think that some of the men in the BIBLE were sinless...........I don't know where you get this notion.........but it's totally false..............ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD...........

Except JESUS of course, HE WAS GOD IN A BODY....................

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

Have sinned: past tense. Referring to those before they come to Christ.
No where does scripture prohibit the possibility of a person reaching a state of perfection and holiness where they don't sin. If Christ was sinless, and if we say we follow Christ, then we should aim towards sinlessness as well. That is the normal conclusion for anyone who believes in the sanctification process. So you believe we are sanctified continually as we grow in Christ, but you don't believe it goes to 100%, maybe 80 or 90%. I believe we can get to that 100% in this lifetime. God is that powerful and able. So my question is, why give people false hope that they should grow in grace and towards perfection and sinlessness and sanctification, if you believe we can never actually reach it in this lifetime?

I can't believe that some people who call themselves Christians are arguing that we should have sin. If Paul was not without sin, then your scriptures you are quoting were written by a sinner. They may have well been written by one of the homosexual pastors around the place. What if Paul struggled with the sin of homosexuality would you still be using his writings as scripture?

So far you have identified Paul as having the sin of self esteem due to his short stature. It makes no sense considering Paul would be so self-focussed considering he also layed down his life for the gospel. It's a good attempt, but if you can quote any other instances of Paul's struggle with sin or his personal sins, please quote them, as I am unaware that they are recorded in the bible.

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Mahogony,

Your own words indicate a potential for sinning............" WE SHOULD AIM TOWARDS SINLESSNESS AS WELL..........." While I totally agree with statement, and yes, this is the goal on planet Earth, LETTING CHRIST LIVE THROUGH US IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN REMOTELY ATTEMPT TO EVEN MINIMIZE OUR SINS...............Just order the LIFETIME GUARANTEE book, you will learn this............And as long as we live in these fallen bodies, my friend, while your notion is quite admirable, it is seriously flawed to think we can obtain sinless perfection, AND EVEN MORE SO IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THIS ON YOUR OWN............Why do you think JESUS moved into you when you asked HIM to............To just go along for the ride.......???

Precious Friend, please check this book out, as I first said to you a while ago, ORDER THE LIFETIME GUARANTEE book, read it, pray first each and every time you begin to read it, ASK THE LORD TO GIVE YOU HIS MIND........WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST ......right ? Read it slowly, especially, because if you buzz through it, and lean on your own understanding while doing this, you will miss everything in it...........

And then, if you still are not convinced of the TRUTH, then just let me know and I will not only pay for the book, but I will pay for the shipping to your home, from LIFETIME GUARANTEE, what you paid to get it, and I will pay for the book and the cost to ship it to me...........Now that's a deal you simply can't pass up.

I await your response.

In JESUS Name Amen......

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

WE SHOULD AIM TOWARDS SINLESSNESS AS WELL..........." While I totally agree with statement, and yes, this is the goal on planet Earth, LETTING CHRIST LIVE THROUGH US IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN REMOTELY ATTEMPT TO EVEN MINIMIZE OUR SINS.....

I agree in part, but the problem is you think we can only half make it, and not the whole way. You may as well not even have a goal if you think you will never reach it anyway. Why be so doubtful and faith-less of what God can do in your life if you only 100% surrender and 100% allow Him to? Why is 100% not possible?

And as long as we live in these fallen bodies, my friend, while your notion is quite admirable, it is seriously flawed to think we can obtain sinless perfection,

If we can't obtain sinless perfection, then why even aim for it?

AND EVEN MORE SO IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THIS ON YOUR OWN............

I never said we could do it on our own.

Why do you think JESUS moved into you when you asked HIM to............To just go along for the ride.......???

Let me ask you , do you think Jesus only does half a job? Do you think He will perfect you to 50, 60, 70%, but not 100%? Do you think that when you were baptised, and buried with Christ, you only half died to sin?

Precious Friend, please check this book out, as I first said to you a while ago, ORDER THE LIFETIME GUARANTEE book, read it, pray first each and every time you begin to read it, ASK THE LORD TO GIVE YOU HIS MIND........WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST ......right ? Read it slowly, especially, because if you buzz through it, and lean on your own understanding while doing this, you will miss everything in it...........

I have tons of books already and most importantly a few different bible versions and concordances. What is so different or special about this book you are offering please tell me?

 

[SeekinHIM]

My Friend Mahogony,

I never said why not try, that of course is indeed the goal, what I am in conflict with you about is this seriously legalistic view of how to "obtain" this.......Paul even himself says NOT THAT I HAVE OBTAINED IT.................

I will tell you this, the truth is very liberating..............It liberates from accumulation of knowledge, not that having many books in and of itself is bad...........I ask you quite honestly, have you really found what you are searching for....? Please take my offer.......I mean this in the kindest way, I love you My Friend and Brother.......Now you might have difficulty with this, I don't. My heart is for you as much as anyone on this service......

To be free.

SeekinHIM

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Mahogony,

I had to take my son to school earlier, because he missed the bus, but here is my full answer to your question..............

First, please understand my position here.................I was a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND I WAS STILL STRUGGLING DAILY TO OVERCOME NUMEROUS THINGS....................PORNOGRAPHY, DRUG ABUSE, FEARS OF ALL KINDS, DOUBTS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE, LYING, ................THE LIST GOES ON FROM HERE................

Now, please don't hear me saying I was in any way ENJOYING any of the things listed above, NOT AT ALL................I LIKE PAUL, WAS SAYING TO MYSELF, AND GOD, AND OTHERS, WRETCHED MAN THAT I AM WHO WILL RESCUE ME FROM THE BODY OF THIS DEATH........

Now, I did not say those exact words, but my hearts intent, as Paul's was the same, I WAS MISERABLE ALL OF THE TIME................WHY....?

Because I was HIS son, and didn't know how all of this is supposed to work, I didn't know how to love, I still hated myself, and those that injured me so badly in my life, primarily my Dad, and various other individuals along the course of my early childhood, and young adulthood years...........

So, I like Paul, and literally thousands of Christians like myself, THAT I KNOW PERSONALLY, had the same cry from our hearts..............WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO STOP THIS, I HATE DOING THESE THINGS...............(ROMANS 7:13 COMES TO LIFE) And, joyfully I can say now, what Paul stated,
BECAUSE I KNOW NOW WHAT HE MEANT BY .................THANKS BE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST MY LORD...............

WHY.......? Because The LORD showed me why I was stuck, what happened to me in my DEAD CONDITION before I got saved............Then HE slowly, but surely, taught me HOW TO LOVE..............HOW TO RECIEVE HIS LOVE, (shed abroad in my heart) AND HOW TO LOVE MYSELF AND OTHERS...............ALL THROUGH THE BOOK .......LIFETIME GUARANTEE

So, I don't know if this helps you, I pray that it does my friend...................I love you Mahogony, I really do................I mean this!!! With all of my heart...........You are my Eternal Brother...............Even though you live so far from America, and I may never, ever see you here on this Earth, one day my friend, we will meet in the Eternities of OUR FATHER..............Then we will embrace the embrace of TRUE BROTHERLY LOVE............

I hope this helps you understand my heart. I am fervently praying for your freedom my friend............

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

I never said why not try, that of course is indeed the goal, what I am in conflict with you about is this seriously legalistic view of how to "obtain" this.......Paul even himself says NOT THAT I HAVE OBTAINED IT.................

First of all, Paul says "not that I have attained it". Secondly, the context is the Grecian games, and the false view that the resurrection has past.

I will tell you this, the truth is very liberating..............It liberates from accumulation of knowledge, not that having many books in and of itself is bad...........

You would prevent me accumulating knowledge by offering another book ?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Dear Mahogony,

I had to take my son to school earlier, because he missed the bus, but here is my full answer to your question..............

First, please understand my position here.................I was a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND I WAS STILL STRUGGLING DAILY TO OVERCOME NUMEROUS THINGS....................PORNOGRAPHY, DRUG ABUSE, FEARS OF ALL KINDS, DOUBTS OF GOD'S EXISTENCE, LYING, ................THE LIST GOES ON FROM HERE................

Now, please don't hear me saying I was in any way ENJOYING any of the things listed above, NOT AT ALL................I LIKE PAUL, WAS SAYING TO MYSELF, AND GOD, AND OTHERS, WRETCHED MAN THAT I AM WHO WILL RESCUE ME FROM THE BODY OF THIS DEATH........

Now, I did not say those exact words, but my hearts intent, as Paul's was the same, I WAS MISERABLE ALL OF THE TIME................WHY....?

Because I was HIS son, and didn't know how all of this is supposed to work, I didn't know how to love, I still hated myself, and those that injured me so badly in my life, primarily my Dad, and various other individuals along the course of my early childhood, and young adulthood years...........

So, I like Paul, and literally thousands of Christians like myself, THAT I KNOW PERSONALLY, had the same cry from our hearts..............WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO STOP THIS, I HATE DOING THESE THINGS...............(ROMANS 7:13 COMES TO LIFE) And, joyfully I can say now, what Paul stated,
BECAUSE I KNOW NOW WHAT HE MEANT BY .................THANKS BE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST MY LORD...............

WHY.......? Because The LORD showed me why I was stuck, what happened to me in my DEAD CONDITION before I got saved............Then HE slowly, but surely, taught me HOW TO LOVE..............HOW TO RECIEVE HIS LOVE, (shed abroad in my heart) AND HOW TO LOVE MYSELF AND OTHERS...............ALL THROUGH THE BOOK .......LIFETIME GUARANTEE

So, I don't know if this helps you, I pray that it does my friend...................I love you Mahogony, I really do................I mean this!!! With all of my heart...........You are my Eternal Brother...............Even though you live so far from America, and I may never, ever see you here on this Earth, one day my friend, we will meet in the Eternities of OUR FATHER..............Then we will embrace the embrace of TRUE BROTHERLY LOVE............

I hope this helps you understand my heart. I am fervently praying for your freedom my friend............

SeekinHIM

What makes you presume I need your book to be free? What is deficient in my bible that I need this book? What makes you presume I'm not free already?

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Brother,

First of all your attitude, you are very angry, your responses are neither loving, gentle or kind.............Simple deduction. Besides I minister every day to many individuals that say some of the same things as you have been saying to me. If you like we could discuss this on another level or in a different location.

Let me know.

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

first of all your attitude, you are very angry, your responses are neither loving, gentle or kind

Are they as loving as when you said my view was extremely demonic and new age?

Besides I minister every day to many individuals that say some of the same things as you have been saying to me.

It's good to know I'm not the only one who discerns your error. But you have not listened to others. The minister who teaches others, cannot be taught himself.

 

[phil36]

Sir; you presume to know me and assume that I am lacking in biblical knowledge. I ask you this; have you ever used your biblical knowledge for a practical purpose? I have been an evangelist and a pastor for the past ten years. Before that I was in lay ministry for almost twenty-five years. I have been involved in numerous Bible studies that take you deeper into God's word to find the meat of the word. I have been used of God to directly lead at least fifty people to the Lord (not counting sermon responses) including thirty-one people that had severe social issues like drug addiction, alcolholism, prostitution and criminal activity.

I choose not to listen to theologians, choosing instead to read and study the sermons and writings of men that are/were used by God to bring about radical changes to the areas around them.

I encourage you to study the Welsh revival and the writings of Richard Robert Owens, Charles G. Finney, Samuel Chadwick and Johnathan Edwards and others. See how God used them in different areas for His glory. Some of these men were called theologians but they used their theology for practical purposes. Their discussions were based on sound biblical principles and extreme practical application, not trivial items like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is that type of practical application which God uses to turn the hearts of men, and that is what I have strived to learn because of who God has called me to minister.

We are all entitled to our personal opinions and to disagree with others but let us disagree under the banner of grace and leave assumptions out of it.

In Christ's love,
John Tyler

Hi John Tyler,

It was you who said you tend to discount theologians..... and then you go on to tell me how well you have done, and then you top that off with giving me a list of very notable THEOLOGIANS! the very thing you say you discount?

Yes Jonathan Edwards writings are a treasure, Charles finney was the big name Theologian of his day, even though he had some controversial thoughts. I could list you quite a few names on my book shelf. more modern scholars 'Tom Shcreiner', ' Howard I Marshall', N T Wright (Although he has caused a storm with his version of the 'New perspective on Paul' which really took hold with Sanders and Dunn.

And yes the welsh revival is inspiring to anyone who reads what happened by the power of God.

I don't think that notable theologians would agree of your critique of them and their work.

Theologians that I have read demonstrate practical out-working's of Scripture. I have read Scholarly work and thought to myself there is nothing practical here, but once I was talked through it I realized it was not the writer but my lack of understanding of what they were putting forward.

Just one more point, you choose not to listen to theologians, how many theologians do you know that have never taught and preached???

Anyhow, It is great that you have done so much in your ministry, I seriously mean that John. Its just when people dismiss theologians for not being in the real life and not practical, sometimes that means, either, they don't understand what they are talking about or they don't understand that it is through these scholar's and theologians of the past we know what we believe and not fought against heresies. remember just a small amount of wording can change a huge amount of what the bible text means.

So there is nothing wrong with not reading theology (as in books by scholars) as your Pastor will pass down the information (or the information you get in your study bible). and there is nothing wrong if you do read it, we all do theology of sorts.

How do you know your english translation is saying what is supposed to?? or if someone translates wrong, who points these things out?

well, Theology is important, not everyone needs to be a theologian, but we all do theology.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Mahogony,

You again misinterpreted my telling you about those that I minister to, they are no longer angry, but are free, because they took a closer look at the principles..............IF YOU LIKE I WILL GET THEIR PERMISSION, AND THEN GIVE YOU THEIR PHONE NUMBERS, AND THEN YOU CAN DISCUSS THE DETAILS PERSONALLY WITH THEM, AND THIS WILL INCLUDE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF INDIVIDUALS THAT HAD HORRIBLE DISEASES AND NO LONGER HAVE THEM...................YOUR CALL MY FRIEND.

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

You presume I'm angry, which I am not. There's something wrong with your discernment. You think changing your thoughts will heal serious diseases. There's something wrong there in your beliefs. How long have you been listening to a spirit of error?

 

[SeekinHIM]

Precious,

This is not about Psychology or some new age philosophy, BUT THE WORD OF GOD.........Don't you remember how many times we are told to SET OUR MINDS ON THINGS ABOVE NOT ON THINGS ON EARTH..............IT ACTUALLY SAYS THOSE WORDS IN COLOSSIANS 3........Ever read this....?

This is not some philosophcal reasoning or any inert style of writing............This is a Command from GOD, just like ROMANS 12- BE NOT CONFORMED TO THE PATTERN OF THIS WORLD BUT BE TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND..............

Or how about this one...............MY GOD SHALL KEEP YOU IN PERFECT PEACE WHOSE MIND IS STAYED ON HIM......ISAIAH....26:3

And please don't try to just brush these off with some rediculous esoteric explanation from some pseudo-theological legalistic teaching or something like that........THIS IS QUITE SIMPLE MY FRIEND...........Problem is we humans because of the fall, think we can figure all of this out on our own........

And GOD has an answer for that too...............I WILL FRUSTRATE THE INTELLEGENCE OF THE INTELLIGENT..............

SeekinHIM