FOR WHAT I AM DOING........PART 1

[MahogonySnail]

The poor fellow in Romans 7 has certainly not been "perfected for ever."

Which is why it's probably Paul speaking of his former state. At least thats what some bible commentaries I consulted say. And on this great website which I cant find now that explains all the styles of writing the authors of scripture used. But of course, some people don't search out a matter so its no use quoting sources when people are convinced they can never be wrong. SeekinHim's best evidence for his beliefs is that "I've been teaching it for 20 years"..

 

[lighthousejohn]

Mahogany, I have a question for you. If man were as peerfect as God desires for him to be(as you say) at the time of our salvation, then why doesn't He take us home to be with Him instead of leaving us here? There would be very little grace in that. I think you are wrong in your thinking. I am not judging you, just stating my opinion. I will be praying for you even as we disagree.

 

[QuestionTime]

Mahogany, I have a question for you. If man were as peerfect as God desires for him to be(as you say) at the time of our salvation, then why doesn't He take us home to be with Him instead of leaving us here? There would be very little grace in that. I think you are wrong in your thinking. I am not judging you, just stating my opinion. I will be praying for you even as we disagree.

Please read my post on page 2 for scriptures to back up Mahogany's claims.

God keeps us here because He wants us to be His representatives on earth. Quite the privilege for all of us indeed.

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

Mahogany, I have a question for you. If man were as peerfect as God desires for him to be(as you say) at the time of our salvation, then why doesn't He take us home to be with Him instead of leaving us here? There would be very little grace in that. I think you are wrong in your thinking. I am not judging you, just stating my opinion. I will be praying for you even as we disagree.

I dont quite understand what you are saying but I'll try. I don't believe God's plan for us is to let us reach sinlessness in this life and them bam take us home fit for heaven. I believe an imperfect person will go to heaven on Christ's merits alone. But, God has a thing called a will and plan for everyone's life, it is not always His best interest to take people home early. Sinless people are also people who God hears quickly and uses mightily. As the bible says, if we have sin, God won't hear us. There are good reasons why a person would want to be sinless in this life. a) be more like God, b) confidence before God, no condemnation - our heart won't be condemning us(see 1 John)), no fear (fear has to do with punishment, see 1 John I think?), c) it's really a command " be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect". d) God answers their prayers quicker, obedience brings its rewards, e) their life is more blessed, free from the dross and consequences sin brings into our life, f) their witness is more powerful - what more powerful witness is there to an unbeliever, to have a life that shows Christ's victory and power over sin? - less chance the unbeliever will accuse the christian of being a hypocrite.

Now if anyone wants to claim these beliefs are extremely demonic or newage then I dare you to take that before God and see what He says.

 

[MahogonySnail]

PS. One trick of the devil is to convince people not to even try to fight against sin, in the belief that they will never be free from it anyway. Jesus never went to the cross thinking of all the sins he would bear and how he would never be free from them, he went to the cross thinking of the glory he would have after his resurrection.

 

[SeekinHIM]

Dear Mahogony,

When Paul says in Romans 7 WRETCHED MAN THAT I AM WHO WILL RESCUE ME...............DOES THIS SOUND LIKE SOME PAST TENSE ISSUE, I THINK NOT, Paul is miserabe because he is sometimes going into his flesh, which he doesn't even know about until later on in PHILIPIANS........Which Chronologically is written AFTER Romans.........Then the LORD OF GLORY reveals it to him.........much later.

WHO WILL RESCUE ME, IS A MUTE POINT IF HE HAS NO SIN..........REMEMBER ANYWAY SIN IN THESE PASSAGES IS A NOUN, WHICH IS PERSONIFIED, (MASCULINE PRONOUN) A CLEAR REVELATION FROM GOD TO US OF WHY OUR BODIES ARE NOT REDEEMED YET........

Genesis 4:7 in the KJV Bible says this clearly.............Please read it. The book of Romans uses the word SIN 41 times in chapeters 5-8 40 of those times it is a NOUN......only once is it a VERB or action word.......shall we then sin<this is the verb which means to sin, or sinning......

Consider this use of the word SIN in another area.....THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH, BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

Wages are always PAID by SOMEONE, NOT AN IT. GIFTS ARE ALWAYS GIVEN OR RECIEVED BY SOMEONE ...........YES ? This is a polarity between two Powers, or Entities......GOD AND SIN (Satans Insidious Nemesis).......This is why the BODY is dead because of SIN........It has to either die and be buried and then resurrected or changed in the twinkling of the eye at the great catching away of the Church.....

Here's another comparison between TWO ENTITIES.............FOR SIN TAKING OPPORTUNITY THROUGH THE COMMANDMENT DECEIVED ME........

WOW DID YOU HEAR THAT.............TWO SEPERATE INTERACTIONS WITH THIS THING CALLED SIN, 1. TAKING OPPORTUNITY.............

2. DECEIVED ME...............HMMM..........Perhaps you shoul order that book I told you about, LIFETIME GUARANTEE..........

SeekinHIM

 

[MahogonySnail]

He's writing "wretched man that I am who will rescue me" to describe his former state before accepting Christ. He then goes onto say that Christ has set him free. Why would Paul say that he needed rescuing , when he had already accepted Christ and was redeemed ?

He is describing his condition whilst under the law for the benefit of the readers. Before he came to Christ he was spiritual, a devout Jew, but also carnal. He had no power. The law killed him. He could not keep the commandments as much as he tried. As a Jew he wanted to but he couldn't. He's making his case for Christ and against living under the law.

Please tell us what baptism means for you, if it doesn't mean death to your sinful nature?

2. DECEIVED ME...............HMMM..........Perhaps you shoul order that book I told you about, LIFETIME GUARANTEE..........

Peddling your or someone elses wares are we?

 

[MahogonySnail]

1 Corinthians 15:34:

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

This is not written by a man who thinks it's ok, if not normal, for a christian to have sin.

The true christian says " sin not!". The other says "sinning is inevitable".

 

[MahogonySnail]

Don't worry everyone I'm praying for you, that God makes you sinless. That He takes away any desires for evil and sin and replaces with desire for good deeds. And I'm sure that you are praying that I will not go one day without sinning, in order to prove your points. But, i'm sure glad God doesn't answer every prayer.

 

[QuestionTime]

Don't worry everyone I'm praying for you, that God makes you sinless. That He takes away any desires for evil and sin and replaces with desire for good deeds.

If you love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, then there is no room left for sin.

It's funny that Jesus makes loving God with all our faculties a requirement for salvation, yet some people in this thread believe this is not possible. If we cannot then meet our requirement then we cannot be saved.

Quest

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Perhaps those that are perfect should get their own room.

 

[lighthousejohn]

Amen! I fully agree.

 

[machew]

This explains what you are all talking about a bit better:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh2qw2zimqA[/video]


I believe Paul is talking about how he used to be, otherwise the rest of what he wrote in Romans, and in his other letters contradicts itself.

 

[QuestionTime]

If anyone is still confused, please see my post on page 2 of this thread. In my post I have given abundance of scripture proving that Paul did not struggle with sin until his death. The scriptures I have given cannot be reasoned away, and for that very reason no one has mentioned my post in a reply.

Quest

 

[lighthousejohn]

If anyone is still confused, please see my post on page 2 of this thread. In my post I have given abundance of scripture proving that Paul did not struggle with sin until his death. The scriptures I have given cannot be reasoned away, and for that very reason no one has mentioned my post in a reply.

Quest

What is the post number?

 

[QuestionTime]

What is the post number?

LOL, call me daft but I have never even noticed before that the posts are numbered. My post is #36.

Quest

 

[phil36]

I tend to discount "note respectable Theologians" because they have a lot of head knowledge and little practical knowledge. I have watched them argue vehemenly with each other on opposite sides of a biblical issue. To put it succinctly; "They are so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly good!"

Maybe some are like that but not all, that is a foolish comment to make! its like all the wanna be theologians on here. I will take 'seekinHim' as an example, plainly he has some sort of illuminant of the scriptures that no one else on here can see? at least that is how it come across, it comes across very condescending and maybe a few years in proper bible study would do you good, and not just sitting at home reading the internet and other books. I'm sorry if these words sound harsh, but a lot of posts on here come across as if God's word is a game where someone can show of His mastery of it... the worst is they usually don't have a mastery of the Word making themselves out to be fools and not wise in the Lord.

Kind regards

Phil

Soli Deo Gloria

 

[lighthousejohn]

Maybe some are like that but not all, that is a foolish comment to make! its like all the wanna be theologians on here. I will take 'seekinHim' as an example, plainly he has some sort of illuminant of the scriptures that no one else on here can see? at least that is how it come across, it comes across very condescending and maybe a few years in proper bible study would do you good, and not just sitting at home reading the internet and other books. I'm sorry if these words sound harsh, but a lot of posts on here come across as if God's word is a game where someone can show of His mastery of it... the worst is they usually don't have a mastery of the Word making themselves out to be fools and not wise in the Lord.

Kind regards

Phil

Soli Deo Gloria

Sir; you presume to know me and assume that I am lacking in biblical knowledge. I ask you this; have you ever used your biblical knowledge for a practical purpose? I have been an evangelist and a pastor for the past ten years. Before that I was in lay ministry for almost twenty-five years. I have been involved in numerous Bible studies that take you deeper into God's word to find the meat of the word. I have been used of God to directly lead at least fifty people to the Lord (not counting sermon responses) including thirty-one people that had severe social issues like drug addiction, alcolholism, prostitution and criminal activity.

I choose not to listen to theologians, choosing instead to read and study the sermons and writings of men that are/were used by God to bring about radical changes to the areas around them.

I encourage you to study the Welsh revival and the writings of Richard Robert Owens, Charles G. Finney, Samuel Chadwick and Johnathan Edwards and others. See how God used them in different areas for His glory. Some of these men were called theologians but they used their theology for practical purposes. Their discussions were based on sound biblical principles and extreme practical application, not trivial items like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is that type of practical application which God uses to turn the hearts of men, and that is what I have strived to learn because of who God has called me to minister.

We are all entitled to our personal opinions and to disagree with others but let us disagree under the banner of grace and leave assumptions out of it.

In Christ's love,
John Tyler

 

[MahogonySnail]

Practically it's the most important thing but if a person wants to find specific facts about something, then theologians are your best bet. I mean you don't consult a street pastor if you want to know in what year Paul died and how. You look up an encyclopedia or theological material. And the street preacher shouldn't presume to know that when he doesn't have the right qualifications. If a theologian is a medical doctor, and a pastor/evangelist is a paramedic, it's like a paramedic prescribing pills for the patient when he doesn't know what he's doing. The writings of the likes of Finney etc aren't exactly correct either. People who read the bible all their life think they have a right to tell people what's what about facts and figures they know nothing about. If you're reading a bible and taking it at face value, and you don't have any knowledge about the methods and techniques Paul for example used to write them, then you cannot possibly know that sometimes Paul writes in the present tense to make his account more vivid, and interpret the scripture properly. Sometimes Paul also writes in the third person.

 

[lighthousejohn]

Practically it's the most important thing but if a person wants to find specific facts about something, then theologians are your best bet. I mean you don't consult a street pastor if you want to know in what year Paul died and how. You look up an encyclopedia or theological material. And the street preacher shouldn't presume to know that when he doesn't have the right qualifications. If a theologian is a medical doctor, and a pastor/evangelist is a paramedic, it's like a paramedic prescribing pills for the patient when he doesn't know what he's doing. The writings of the likes of Finney etc aren't exactly correct either. People who read the bible all their life think they have a right to tell people what's what about facts and figures they know nothing about. If you're reading a bible and taking it at face value, and you don't have any knowledge about the methods and techniques Paul for example used to write them, then you cannot possibly know that sometimes Paul writes in the present tense to make his account more vivid, and interpret the scripture properly. Sometimes Paul also writes in the third person.

Are you saying that I have no biblical knowledge or understanding because I am a preacher/pastor? That is an arrogant statement based on a disagreement of understanding. Because I see it one way and you another does not qualify either of us to challenge the others qualifications. If you desire to question my qualifications without specific knowledge then I must ask you to apologize.

I would rather spend my time preaching the gospel as God has laid it on my heart. Has God ever used you to lead someone to the Lord in a dirty alley or behind a bar or in a detox ward? If not, why not? That is the purpose of the gospel, is it not?