Free will verses permissive will

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J

Jordon

Well-known member
Mar 19, 2025
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My first idea would be
A message to Cain.

It's highly unlikely Cain had reach the point of salvation but it would be fair to God was trying to save him here.


If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

I would call that Gods permissive will.

Now when Cain struck able who's will was he carrying out, I would say free will, but it would be the free will of sin.

Some of you may say oh not another will thread.


But before you do, see if you can find some more permissive will scriptures I'm interested to know.

I would say permissive will wins every time, but it's unless it's not God's permissive will, then it's free will .

So I wonder can the unsaved express permissive will ☺️

And is free will something that's born out of sin
 
Jordon said:
My first idea would be
A message to Cain.

It's highly unlikely Cain had reach the point of salvation but it would be fair to God was trying to save him here.


If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

I would call that Gods permissive will.

Now when Cain struck able who's will was he carrying out, I would say free will, but it would be the free will of sin.

Some of you may say oh not another will thread.


But before you do, see if you can find some more permissive will scriptures I'm interested to know.

I would say permissive will wins every time, but it's unless it's not God's permissive will, then it's free will .

So I wonder can the unsaved express permissive will ☺️

And is free will something that's born out of sin
Click to expand...

Permissive is what God allows under free will. If sovereign will then there would be no sin or evil. Free will is the duel reality where humans sin or respond to Him (free will), God allows evil to a degree (permissive), but yet He works in it all to bring about His (Sovereign) will.

Otherwise, God created evil which is impossible for a holy God. Evil can only come through choice.
 
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Jordon said:
My first idea would be
A message to Cain.

It's highly unlikely Cain had reach the point of salvation but it would be fair to God was trying to save him here.


If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

I would call that Gods permissive will.

Now when Cain struck able who's will was he carrying out, I would say free will, but it would be the free will of sin.

Some of you may say oh not another will thread.


But before you do, see if you can find some more permissive will scriptures I'm interested to know.

I would say permissive will wins every time, but it's unless it's not God's permissive will, then it's free will .

So I wonder can the unsaved express permissive will ☺️

And is free will something that's born out of sin
Click to expand...

No Jordon! How can you be so close to the truth but shy away from the obvious--
that God's permissive will is what gives humanity MFW? You are right there!
 
Roughsoul1991 said:
Permissive is what God allows under free will. If sovereign will then there would be no sin or evil. Free will is the duel reality where humans sin or respond to Him (free will), God allows evil to a degree (permissive), but yet He works in it all to bring about His (Sovereign) will.

Otherwise, God created evil which is impossible for a holy God. Evil can only come through choice.
Click to expand...
ok well I don't know how you got to adding, if what you say is not true that means God created evil.

Talk about throwing a blanket over your opinion gee wizz.

You may have forgot to include his permissive will was passed on to Cain with a will not to act out of his own will.

Should Cain have expressed his own will or should he have expressed God's permissive will ?
 
GWH said:
No Jordon! How can you be so close to the truth but shy away from the obvious--
that God's permissive will is what gives humanity MFW? You are right there!
Click to expand...
Yep moral free will for the unsaved, ok

So should the unsaved express Gods permissive will then ?

Permissive as in what he allows and what he doesn't ?
 
There are lots of places in scripture about meditating on the word of God and serving Him with your heart, mind, and soul.
As Paul puts it: "In my flesh dwells no good thing", and "With my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin" (Romans 7:18&25)

Man can use his will to plan for things as much as he wants, but the truth is that no one knows how their plans will actually work out. One day you think you're going to the beach, and the next day you have to cancel for stormy weather. One minute you're lifted up for something good you experienced, and the next you're bought down with something shameful you're going through. You think you've got the integrity of your posessions all worked out, but then your car breaks down away from home. You didn't suspect crookedness in a person you thought you knew, until it was suddenly found out.

Your will can give you life, but it's a stretch to use it for much more than trusting God at any time.


On another note, people tend to overlook how cain 'left' Gods presence, even though God is inescapable anywhere, and even though God gave cain a sign to protect his life, his descendant lamech thought God would protect him sevenfold for being a murderer.
 
Jordon said:
Yep moral free will for the unsaved, ok

So should the unsaved express Gods permissive will then ?

Permissive as in what he allows and what he doesn't ?
Click to expand...

Everyone should exercise their God given MFW to cooperate with God’s will for them to be saved and become morally loving like Christ, but God allows everyone not to cooperate, which is called his permissive will.
 
Jordon said:
ok well I don't know how you got to adding, if what you say is not true that means God created evil.

Talk about throwing a blanket over your opinion gee wizz.

You may have forgot to include his permissive will was passed on to Cain with a will not to act out of his own will.

Should Cain have expressed his own will or should he have expressed God's permissive will ?
Click to expand...

It was both.
 
Ceph said:
There are lots of places in scripture about meditating on the word of God and serving Him with your heart, mind, and soul.
As Paul puts it: "In my flesh dwells no good thing", and "With my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin" (Romans 7:18&25)

Man can use his will to plan for things as much as he wants, but the truth is that no one knows how their plans will actually work out. One day you think you're going to the beach, and the next day you have to cancel for stormy weather. One minute you're lifted up for something good you experienced, and the next you're bought down with something shameful you're going through. You think you've got the integrity of your posessions all worked out, but then your car breaks down away from home. You didn't suspect crookedness in a person you thought you knew, until it was suddenly found out.

Your will can give you life, but it's a stretch to use it for much more than trusting God at any time.


On another note, people tend to overlook how cain 'left' Gods presence, even though God is inescapable anywhere, and even though God gave cain a sign to protect his life, his descendant lamech thought God would protect him sevenfold for being a murderer.
Click to expand...
Good stuff buddy so again you could say cains son had permissive will, which means he allowed himself to think these things, and his free will born out of sin stuck by that decision.

On the other hand if Cain had a listened to Gods permissive will, telling him to overcome sin that day. Things may have changed.

So permissive will in good sense is God giving you the will to allow your self for Good things to happen.

But free will born out of sin aids you to take no notice and you don't want to expresss Gods good permissive will of allowing good things to happen

Now on the other side of God's permissive it is thought he allows for bad things to happen.

If this was the case why would God give Cain some good permissive will that day.

So it's seems mankind can express Gods good permissive will

But the free willers are only seeing permissive will as a bad thing.

That was there free will speaking
 
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Roughsoul1991 said:
It was both.
Click to expand...
Cain and able was both given permissive will to allow them to bring God and offering.

Why was cains offering rejected.

If you see that it wasn't free will that God gave Cain and able, because by cains free will born out of sin he got angry and hit is brother, did he get angry with God to,

Yes I believe so.

Would God give you free will knowing it could allow people to get angry with God ?

I don't believe so.

So once it again a man having free will is pointing towards something born out of sin.

On the other hand a man having permissive will is the prick delivered in to a persons conscience, the prick being it only allows for Good things to happen.
 
Exodus 33


Exodus 33

The lord delivering his Good permissive will


2 I will send an angel before you and drive out the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 3 Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.”


4 When the people heard these distressing words, they began to mourn and no one put on any ornaments. 5 For the Lord had said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites, ‘You are a stiff-necked people. If I were to go with you even for a moment, I might destroy you.


12 Moses said to the Lord, “You have been telling me, ‘Lead these people,’ but you have not let me know whom you will send with me. You have said, ‘I know you by name and you have found favor with me.’ 13 If you are pleased with me, teach me your ways so I may know you and continue to find favor with you. Remember that this nation is your people.”



14 The Lord replied, “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”
.”


18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”


19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence


I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20
 
Jordon said:
Cain and able was both given permissive will to allow them to bring God and offering.

Why was cains offering rejected.

If you see that it wasn't free will that God gave Cain and able, because by cains free will born out of sin he got angry and hit is brother, did he get angry with God to,

Yes I believe so.

Would God give you free will knowing it could allow people to get angry with God ?

I don't believe so.

So once it again a man having free will is pointing towards something born out of sin.

On the other hand a man having permissive will is the prick delivered in to a persons conscience, the prick being it only allows for Good things to happen.
Click to expand...

Would God give you free will knowing it could allow people to get angry with God ?
Click to expand...

Yes He would. Permissive will is the only reason free will exists.
 
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Romans

When men wilfully and blatantly choose to reject God after He reveals something of Himself both in nature and in His Word to them, God gives men over to their sin. This is the permissive will of God. It described God’s judicial act of handing someone over to suffer the consequences of his wrongdoing.

Gives men over to the sin.

What does this mean ?

It means men where given Gods permissive will.

But they rejected out of free will born out of sin
 
GWH said:
Yes. If you read the Romans passage it says one is enslaved by choice and freed by choosing God.
Click to expand...
nope one is enslaved by rejecting God's permissive will inside of them.

Choice of rejecting Gods permissive will. Is a result of free will born out of sin

Did God give you sin

Nope he gave you a choice to accept what is right only, it's called for-knowing.

Your free will born out of sin rejected.

For knowing equals God set you aside for a future event, by implanting his permissive into you.
 
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
 
GWH said:
Yes. If you read the Romans passage it says one is enslaved by choice and freed by choosing God.
Click to expand...
limited free will.

All you have is limited free will.

And it's limited to you making the right choice.

It's not limited to you making the wrong choice, because God's permissive will implanted in you to make a right choice for a future events only has grounds for compassion if his will inside of allows for him to have mercy on you, otherwise your handed over to sin. Meaning you handed yourself over to it. Does God give you the enabling grace to hand your self over to sin ?

His permissive will implanted in you also has enough enabling grace and will power to allow you to make the right choice

Found in Romans

Hebrews

Not an opinion of my faith but his faith.
 
Jordon said:
Would God give you free will knowing it could allow people to get angry with God ?

I don't believe so.
Click to expand...
On what do you base this “disbelief”? Human history is replete with evidence of man’s anger at God. God in His foreknowledge surely saw this and yet allowed sinful humans to reproduce.

Jordon said:
So once it again a man having free will is pointing towards something born out of sin.

On the other hand a man having permissive will is the prick delivered in to a persons conscience, the prick being it only allows for Good things to happen.
Click to expand...
It appears to me that you have created a false distinction between the two concepts.

If you propose that evil is merely the result of God’s permissive will, then from where does man’s inclination to evil come? If you propose that evil is only the result of Adam’s “original” sin, then you imply that God lacked foresight and is playing catchup with a runaway creation.

Scripture tells us that the human heart is desperately wicked. That isn’t by God’s design. Rather, He is fully aware of it and has made adequate provision for it in the shed blood of Christ. In His great love, He “permits” us to respond… or reject, so it’s “both-and”. :)
 
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