Free will verses permissive will

[Jordon]

On what do you base this “disbelief”? Human history is replete with evidence of man’s anger at God. God in His foreknowledge surely saw this and yet allowed sinful humans to reproduce.


It appears to me that you have created a false distinction between the two concepts.

If you propose that evil is merely the result of God’s permissive will, then from where does man’s inclination to evil come? If you propose that evil is only the result of Adam’s “original” sin, then you imply that God lacked foresight and is playing catchup with a runaway creation.

Scripture tells us that the human heart is desperately wicked. That isn’t by God’s design. Rather, He is fully aware of it and has made adequate provision for it in the shed blood of Christ. In His great love, He “permits” us to respond… or reject, so it’s “both-and”.

As stated already in this thread I don't proposes evil is a result of God's permissive will, God's word does

Gods word proposes Gods good permissive will, is implanted into people, and also proposes that his permissive will that is implanted into people, ( all people) only allows for people to make the right choice.

It doesn't allow for them to make the wrong choice.

The wrong choice they make is born out of sin, (free will).

 

[GWH]

nope one is enslaved by rejecting God's permissive will inside of them.

Choice of rejecting Gods permissive will. Is a result of free will born out of sin
Did God give you sin
Nope he gave you a choice to accept what is right only, it's called for-knowing.
Your free will born out of sin rejected.
For knowing equals God set you aside for a future event, by implanting his permissive into you.

Romans 6:11-18

 

[GWH]

limited free will.

All you have is limited free will.
And it's limited to you making the right choice.
It's not limited to you making the wrong choice, because God's permissive will implanted in you to make a right choice for a future events only has grounds for compassion if his will inside of allows for him to have mercy on you, otherwise your handed over to sin. Meaning you handed yourself over to it. Does God give you the enabling grace to hand your self over to sin ?
His permissive will implanted in you also has enough enabling grace and will power to allow you to make the right choice
Found in Romans
Hebrews
Not an opinion of my faith but his faith.

Moral choice means having two opposite moral options: God/good vs. Satan/evil (Deut. 30:19, cf. Luke 11:11-12).

 

[Dino246]

As stated already in this thread I don't proposes evil is a result of God's permissive will, God's word does

Gods word proposes Gods good permissive will, is implanted into people, and also proposes that his permissive will that is implanted into people, ( all people) only allows for people to make the right choice.

It doesn't allow for them to make the wrong choice.

The wrong choice they make is born out of sin, (free will).

That is a logical impossibility.

 

[Jordon]

That is a logical impossibility.

That's your choice to believe that, but Gods word says the opposite,

Gods words says time and time again his for-knowledge (his pernisssive will, is rejected with sin (evil)

Time and time again God's word judges the motive inside a person.

How is God able to judge the motive of the wicked heart, well it can only be by the permissive will he implanted into you

Because if he had implanted free will into you how could he judge you ? Because the bible declared all men will be judged by every bad deed done

 

[Jordon]

Moral choice means having two opposite moral options: God/good vs. Satan/evil (Deut. 30:19, cf. Luke 11:11-12).

His moral free will not yours.

You only get to make the right choice by his permissive will not by your own will.

You have to have the will implanted in the first place to make the right choice.

 

[tablet123]

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden for He gave Adam and Eve a choice.

It would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them with an alternate reality because all they could know and think is what God told them.

Since God gave them a choice but they did not have a choice only knowing the reality God told them He allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said they could not eat of the tree for that is all she could think and know.

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that they would be as gods and have an elevated position and she ate and sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam and he ate and sinned.

The angels had free will or they could of not rebelled.

Adam and Eve had free will to choose God or the tree.

We have free will to choose our destination because God's kingdom is true love not robotic love.

You can program your computer to say I love you, but does your computer really love you.

And you can program your computer to say I hate you, and will you get mad and smash your computer.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

God wants all people to be saved but not all people will be saved so we have free will to choose our salvation.

If God made the choice for people to be saved without their choice to be every person would be saved.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Some people do not understand predestination that it means that God already had the plan of salvation to give to mankind from the foundation of the world.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

But this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation for God is love and His kingdom is true love.

The Spirit and bride say Come, and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely, which means salvation is for all people.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

No person can come to the truth without God intervening in their life.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth, but when they get to the door of truth they have to make the choice to accept the truth because God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life.

Not everybody has the right heart condition to be called because they exalt themselves, and do not have much love for people, and do not want to believe in a higher power.

Not everybody calls that calls Jesus Lord is saying it in the right sense for it means ultimate authority.

Catholics do not when they exalt Mary as the Queen of heaven, and the Pope Holy Father.

Mormons do not when they say Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, and they will have power as Jesus being a god.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not when they say Jesus is a created god.

If God chooses who will be saved or not without their choice then many are called but few are chosen would not make sense.

For why would God call people and then not choose them for everyone He called should be saved.

It is because we have a choice to choose our salvation.

Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mar 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everybody that is called make it through the door of truth so many are called but few are chosen.

Continued in next post

 

[tablet123]

Continued from above post

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Dan 4:30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

Dan 4:31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Exo 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exo 9:14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

Exo 9:15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

Exo 9:16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

God has His will to keep down the evil so it does not cause a big hurt, and deception, on the world for He loves people, and will not allow His truth to be hindered from people.

But when God is ready to end sin on earth then He will allow the world to have their way, and go against the truth.

Which they will establish a system on a world wide level following the new age interpretation of religions that exalts people, and stop the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a personal God.

 

[GWH]

That's your choice to believe that, but Gods word says the opposite,

Gods words says time and time again his for-knowledge (his pernisssive will, is rejected with sin (evil)
Time and time again God's word judges the motive inside a person.
How is God able to judge the motive of the wicked heart, well it can only be by the permissive will he implanted into you
Because if he had implanted free will into you how could he judge you ? Because the bible declared all men will be judged by every bad deed done

GW says Deut. 30:19.
YOU say "the opposite"!

 

[Jordon]

Continued from above post

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Dan 4:30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

Dan 4:31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Exo 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exo 9:14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

Exo 9:15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

Exo 9:16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

God has His will to keep down the evil so it does not cause a big hurt, and deception, on the world for He loves people, and will not allow His truth to be hindered from people.

But when God is ready to end sin on earth then He will allow the world to have their way, and go against the truth.

Which they will establish a system on a world wide level following the new age interpretation of religions that exalts people, and stop the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a personal God.

we need to establish the basics sir,

Fact eating of the tree of knowledge didn't corrupt them with sin, the sin of disobedience did, which is recorded in scripture.

Fact God god implanted his permissive will in adam and eve to make the right choice and it didn't allow for them to make the wrong choice, his word is alive and active, and carries his will able to judge the heart and motive, which means the permissive will he gave to Adam and eve before they sinned was able to go into the heart.

Was his permissive will implanted with free will into Adam and eve, if it was how could God have Judged Adam and eve after they sinned if he implanted free will to make the wrong or right choice ?

Next

It's not clear that the old wise serpent in the garden, that could talk in the garden was actually satan, or whether it was a figurative word included in the bible, describing how Satan is also, animals can talk, like parrots, but serpents ? What serpents ? What type of serpent well scripture says it was more craftier than Any other animal.

 

[Jordon]

GW says Deut. 30:19.
YOU say "the opposite"!

Your going to have to interpret this one passage into the whole Bible, are you going to do that. You have no valid argument here this is the lords will.

So I tell you what this is what God sets before you

19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence


I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20

 

[Jordon]

You have to think about this @tablet123 did God implant free will into Adam and eve to be decieved by an animal ?

 

[GWH]

Your going to have to interpret this one passage into the whole Bible, are you going to do that. You have no valid argument here this is the lords will.

So I tell you what this is what God sets before you
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20

Romans 9:15 in context:

26. In Romans 8:1-25 Paul describes the s/e struggle in terms of Christians–who are indwelt by the Spirit and freed from living in accordance with the sinful nature—as putting to death sinful deeds, because they are God’s children and co-heirs of Christ’s glorious resurrection.

27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.

28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).

29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).

30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.

31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.

32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).

33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy (Rom. 9:22-23).

34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.

35. Romans 10:9 states God’s requirement for s/e as “confess Jesus as the resurrected Lord”, v.10 clarifies that the condition of faith (#31) precedes the work of confession, and vs.11-13 reiterate that all sinners who call on the name of the Lord will be s/e.

36. Romans 10:18 cites Psalm 19:4, which hints that God’s s/e has been possible for everyone in the world. This implication may also be seen in Gal. 3:8, Col. 1:23 and Tit. 2:11 as well as Rom. 1:20.

 

[Jordon]

Romans 9:15 in context:

26. In Romans 8:1-25 Paul describes the s/e struggle in terms of Christians–who are indwelt by the Spirit and freed from living in accordance with the sinful nature—as putting to death sinful deeds, because they are God’s children and co-heirs of Christ’s glorious resurrection.

27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.

28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).

29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).

30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.

31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.

32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).

33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy (Rom. 9:22-23).

34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.

35. Romans 10:9 states God’s requirement for s/e as “confess Jesus as the resurrected Lord”, v.10 clarifies that the condition of faith (#31) precedes the work of confession, and vs.11-13 reiterate that all sinners who call on the name of the Lord will be s/e.

36. Romans 10:18 cites Psalm 19:4, which hints that God’s s/e has been possible for everyone in the world. This implication may also be seen in Gal. 3:8, Col. 1:23 and Tit. 2:11 as well as Rom. 1:20.

so does God implanting your free will by your definition allow people to commit evil or it allows for people to make mistakes.

It must do if you believe seeing as you bring the Egyptian king into it. ? Or that believe God will endure wrong doing ? As of your account of Paul in romans

Romans one says otherwise

 

[Dino246]

That's your choice to believe that, but Gods word says the opposite,

I am confident it doesn't, but I welcome you to provide chapter and verse where it supposedly does.

Gods words says time and time again his for-knowledge (his pernisssive will, is rejected with sin (evil)

It's one word "foreknowledge". Foreknowledge is not permissive will; they are two completely different things. Foreknowledge is not rejected; God's good will is.

Time and time again God's word judges the motive inside a person.

How is God able to judge the motive of the wicked heart, well it can only be by the permissive will he implanted into you

Scripture simply does not say anything at all about "permissive will" being "implanted" in us. God is able to judge because He is just and because He can see the heart.

Because if he had implanted free will into you how could he judge you ? Because the bible declared all men will be judged by every bad deed done

Scripture doesn't say that God "implanted" free will ; rather, it says He made us "in His image", which includes volition (will). He has made it clear in Scripture that we are free (within certain parameters) to do as we choose, whether good or bad, and that we will be judged by what we do, whether good or bad.

 

[Jordon]

I am confident it doesn't, but I welcome you to provide chapter and verse where it supposedly does.


It's one word "foreknowledge". Foreknowledge is not permissive will; they are two completely different things. Foreknowledge is not rejected; God's good will is.


Scripture simply does not say anything at all about "permissive will" being "implanted" in us. God is able to judge because He is just and because He can see the heart.


Scripture doesn't say that God "implanted" free will ; rather, it says He made us "in His image", which includes volition (will). He has made it clear in Scripture that we are free (within certain parameters) to do as we choose, whether good or bad, and that we will be judged by what we do, whether good or bad.

Already shown in this thread where God permissive will is implanted, multiple times in multiple verses

Choice is not free will either

If you think your free to choose bad that thought is born out of sin

In the begining God created us and he saw his creation was Good. this is a far contrast from saying he created you with a choice to do bad.


You don't answer the most important question

How can God judge a heart that is naturally wicked ? Is there any point at all in judging that heart ?

 

[Jordon]

If you to do bad that would be free will born out of sin to carry your bad choice into actually doing it

If you choose to do good that would be god's permissive will working in you

 

[Jordon]

If you to do bad that would be free will born out of sin to carry your bad choice into actually doing it

If you choose to do good that would be god's permissive will working in you

Being born innocent in the lord eyes.
How can you feel even feel ashamed if your free to choose bad and do bad

So then dino Adam and even became ashamed when they did bad.

If God would have created Adam and eve with a choice to do bad or with free will then being created with bad choice and free will, they would have never have become ashamed. Its like once you lose your innocence it's gone, it's also when you knowingly sin with no Shame

It's the same reasoning for a virgin, a virgin doesn't lose there innocence until a man lays down with a woman a woman lays down with a man.

Adam and eve lost there innocence once they sinned.

Which means they where not created with free will to do bad.

If they had of been they would have been able to sin and not feel ashamed

 

[Dino246]

You have to think about this @tablet123 did God implant free will into Adam and eve to be decieved by an animal ?

The "serpent" was not a mere animal. You might want to do some more homework on this.

 

[Jordon]

The "serpent" was not a mere animal. You might want to do some more homework on this.

doesn't matter if the serpent was an animal or it was satan, they both became animals of the wrong sort.