Free will verses permissive will

[Jordon]

Huh? Where did you learn the meaning of English words? If "choice" is not "free will" then it is not "choice". Perhaps your concept of "free will" needs fresh examination.

It's ok really it's not me your arguing against, it's yourself and God's word. For me you can argue with yourself all day if you want, because I'm not going to be drawn into your own argument, and I'm not going to surrender to your argument never ever.

Scripture clearly demonstrates in multiple verses God implants his will into the naturally wicked heart to make a good choice. No where does it state he plants his will in a naturally wicked heart to make a wrong choice. Scripture say no one can know the naturally wicked heart, so there for only God can.

So then making a bad choice after you have Gods active will implanted in your heart , is born out of a sinful nature, which God never gave you.

To sin is also an act of free will born out of sin. Its when you think your own will is free to do what it wants,

So doing good in the naturaly wicked heart comes from his active will, ( his permissive will of what he allows in your heart)

Doing bad comes from your will to ignore his will, That's not his choice, and if you make that choice your then judged, since your heart is naturally wicked then only his active will in your heart can judge you.

As a naturally wicked heart will think it's good to be wicked, a naturally wicked heart would never ever have Gods judgment living actively in it, unless Gods goes against the will of the naturally wicked heart,

 

[PaulThomson]

No Jordon! How can you be so close to the truth but shy away from the obvious--
that God's permissive will is what gives humanity MFW? You are right there!

What has God creating Many Furry Wombats for Adam got to do with the OP topic?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

yes he would to what, give a person free will who is a slave to sin ?

I quoted your question I was responding to.

Would God give you free will knowing it could allow people to get angry with God ?

But yes, because total depravity is a false doctrine. We are slaves to sin but not in the choice to come to God. Why? Because God first came after a us, died for us, and opened the way for all who would accept Him. If God had not first moved on our behalf, we would be very much content with sin.

 

[Dino246]

It's ok really it's not me your arguing against, it's yourself and God's word. For me you can argue with yourself all day if you want, because I'm not going to be drawn into your own argument, and I'm not going to surrender to your argument never ever.

I'm disagreeing with your ideas, not with God's word. If you make a statement around "God's word says" but God's word doesn't say what you claim, I'll disagree with you. You can get your knickers in a twist or dismiss the discussion, but neither will make your claims any more consistent with Scripture.

 

[Jordon]

I quoted your question I was responding to.



But yes, because total depravity is a false doctrine. We are slaves to sin but not in the choice to come to God. Why? Because God first came after a us, died for us, and opened the way for all who would accept Him. If God had not first moved on our behalf, we would be very much content with sin.

Who mentioned anything about total depravity?

A heart that is naturally wicked is totally depraved, it it prohibited,

Since all naturally wicked hearts are always judged for every bad deed done that means they have a something that pricks there conscience.

So a totally depraved naturally wicked hearts do have God also.

As do hearts that are no longer totally depraved.

So no God isn't totally depraved a naturally wicked hearts are without God is

 

[Jordon]

I'm disagreeing with your ideas, not with God's word. If you make a statement around "God's word says" but God's word doesn't say what you claim, I'll disagree with you. You can get your knickers in a twist or dismiss the discussion, but neither will make your claims any more consistent with Scripture.

once again you say there my ideas, that's ok you can try to insult me all you want to.

Have a nice day

 

[Dino246]

once again you say there my ideas, that's ok you can try to insult me all you want to.

Have a nice day

Perhaps you can’t distinguish between God’s word and your ideas about God’s word. That’s dangerous, but thinking I insulted you is merely silly. I suggest you grow a thicker skin.

 

[Jordon]

Perhaps you can’t distinguish between God’s word and your ideas about God’s word. That’s dangerous, but thinking I insulted you is merely silly. I suggest you grow a thicker skin.

I don't suppose you don't no.

 

[Jordon]

Ok well do you see God's permissive here then @Dino246

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

 

[GWH]

Perhaps you can’t distinguish between God’s word and your ideas about God’s word. That’s dangerous, but thinking I insulted you is merely silly. I suggest you grow a thicker skin.

Or won't do so.

 

[Dino246]

Ok well do you see God's permissive here then @Dino246

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Explain what you see.

 

[Jordon]

Explain what you see.

and how about here do you see Gods permissive will here ?


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[Dino246]

and how about here do you see Gods permissive will here ?


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Again, explain what you see. Because of your writing “style” it is difficult for me to understand you. The more you explain what you see, the more likely I will understand what you’re attempting to assert.

 

[Jordon]

Again, explain what you see. Because of your writing “style” it is difficult for me to understand you. The more you explain what you see, the more likely I will understand what you’re attempting to assert.

ok well I'm happy to wait for your answer,

Here's an idea I have personally of asking you the same question.

For the next 40 days and speaking about self discipline on my part, im going to make only one post a day on this forum with many different scriptures and ask you the same question over forty days.

Which is do you see God's permissive will in this scripture.

So for the next forty days im only going to post one post a day to this forum.

If in forty days I still haven't got an answer I'm going to do the save thing for the next forty days

 

[Jordon]

@Dino246

How about here Do you see God's permissive will here

Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

 

[Jordon]

Well it's day two of my forty day cycle , well it's actually 00..30 am in UK.

I thought I would have a change of a plan and post my one and only post to this forum everyday at 00.30 am, everyday, I've now got a reminder set on my phone to go off everyday at this time to post my one and only post to this forum.

So here's my post.

Well good day folks, how's the day been.

So todays post

Is how can a naturally wicked hearts judge every careless word spoken, and can Gods permissive will living in that person Judge those careless words , so to be clear folks God's permissive will is what he allows in a naturally wicked heart and what he doesn't.
So how can a naturally wicked heart give account of every careless word he ever spoke,

I mean if he isn't made aware at the time of speaking them, how could he give account ?

Well the answer must be a naturally wicked heart is made aware, ( it's called the prick in the conscience) and God's gift to all mankind

It's also something you'll hear people say a lot, like please forgive me for using the lords name in vain or excuse my bad language.

So heading of to sleep now, I'll be back at the same time tomorrow for another brisk visit.

I wonder who sees Gods permissive will here ?






Matthew 12:36

New International Version



36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

 

[Jordon]

Good day folks I've had a change of plan,

I'm going to post one post a day to this whole forum in this thread, here every day at the same time for the next 365 days

Here's my post today

what Gods allows for his children is this, if you run away he will catch And if you get angry with him he will not be pleased.

where can that be found in the bible

So the moral of the story is stop running away and start pleasing him.

Anyone see God's permissive will here

 

[Jordon]

Hey again

So yesterday I mentioned God's will, will find his children that run away, and I wondered do they have a choice to be found.

Nope they don't, they will be found,
As it says God will heal the broken hearted, then i wondered do the broken hearted have a choice to be healed, nope

This is speaking of God's children.

But then it occured to me hang on, will an choice are different.
When it's comes to the definition of will and choice on the bible there clearly different.

God doesn't direct my steps by choice, he does it by devine will.

God already made the choice he would direct the steps of his children, so there for it is without question, that will and choice are two completely different understandings in the bible.

But what of the naturally wicked heart, can it make a choice that's real to God , nar not by it's own meri, unless it's not got any will attached to it, how can the choice be real. ?

Looking in to scripture it clearly identifies, that from the pricked conscience of the naturally wicked heart, some do good, I wonder are they doing good by choice or are they doing good by will,
where can all this be found in the bible,

And can anyone see God's permissive will here

Well good days foods have a good one

 

[Jordon]

Good day folks, speaking of permissive will, for myself I can not allow this thread to disappear into oblivion , now by not being permissive IE just allowing this thread to disappear into oblivion, would I have any will by going against my choice to just let this thread go off into oblivion .

Well today's thought is based on choosing between Good and evil.

It's clear from the bible that Good people can still choose evil, so you have to wonder whether it's all pointing to sin having a will of it's own to go against God's will.

So still speaking about God's children now,
Remember in the thread we discussed sin is crouching at your door, and it desires to have you. I can only look at that as temptation.

Unless I bring every other reason sin is desiring to have me into equation, I must first look at what causes a good person to choose evil by his own merit, without any outside influence,

I can only come to the conclusion it must be temptation and flesh has a will of its own, which I can only describe as it lives by a code, one that is governed by the law of nature. Which is survive at any cost.

It's so easy to feel sorry for myself at this stage, but it's the will of God to prune every bad branch that bares bad fruit, which I feel the bad fruit would be sin.

So does the sinner ,Gods children, have a choice to have every bad fruit pruned by the gardener,

 

[Jordon]

Well the question is not whether a child of God has any free will they can express, but whether or not they have any permissive will will they can express freely.

Because even having permissive will to express, you have to ask your self are you free to express Gods permissive will, without his permission.

Well one main account is that of God's oracle, children of God are told not misuse Gods oracle ( his message).

As the bible states we will be held accountable for every careless word spoken by his will, it seems fitting, to remind ourselves of the Scripture that declares the holy spirit will lead us, which for me, jumping to an immediate answer isn't permissible for God, as he states we must take every thought captive, which means if we are Using God's words to give directions, then we need be seeking to please the lord give directions in kindness, rather than trying to do it ourselves.

This is his permissive will that we seek the lord to please him and not ourselves, when using his word,
.
Now again I have to ask myself can a naturally wicked heart do this by there own merit, by there own free will.