Fundamentalism

[gamlet]

and just to name a few by sweet loving tolerant Jesus..

Matthew 23:13, 16-17, 24-25, 27, 33 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

As I said in my reply to Dan, we speak differently today than did Jesus. So, we need to interpret Bible passages contextually. Just because Jesus proclaimed curses doesn't mean we can, too. How would He speak to people if He were alive today? And the answer is He would speak differently to different people. I would believe that He would take the most effective means of making people realize their need for a closer relationship with God. If you think you can lead a person closer to God by cursing him, go ahead. I think Jesus did that during his time.

 

[gamlet]

I'm not really understanding you, here... how would safeguarding the weak work without rejecting some people or groups? On a personal level, what does accepting people of variant beliefs look like? If you 'had a key' to the church building, would you invite some Jehovah's Witnesses (or, if you are a JW, a trinitarian) to come speak... or would you 'pre-judge' them to have nothing edifying to add to your fellowship?

In a broader sense, tho, having read some of your posts that followed mine, it sounds perhaps like you would like more respectful dialogue between religions and sects... no 'mean-talking'... maybe? ... I could certainly see that... like the 'no unwholesome talk come out of your mouth... only what's good for edification of the hearers Eph 4:29, working from memory... so, when talking about the JW's above, say, I could say that many JW's I've talked to seem to have a sincere desire for seeking God...

Letting people take the pulpit in church is a different context from where I'm coming from. I'm talking about personal relations. I would let them speak in a discussion maybe but not on the pulpit. We have both kinds in our church. We discuss in groups or on the floor as one body. But the sermon is taken by someone with recognized authority.

I agree with you, many Jehovah's Witnesses have a sincere desire for seeking God, as well as Muslims, Buddhists, even those who say they are not religious.

 

[gamlet]

Hello Gamlet,

Someone asked me once if I was a fundamentalist, and I said 'Yes', for I believed that a fundamentalist was one who believed God's word in it's entirety. Those you describe do not sound like any believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that I have ever known.

There is extremism in all religion.
It is religion that kills and makes war.

Walk away from religion, and come into Christ.
Our fellowship is with the Father and with the Son, through the Spirit.
We are individuals, who stand before God, in Christ.

I'm afraid I've seen too many. They think that they belong to the only true religion. All others will not be saved. They depend on their doctrines and their obedience to be saved. They are sure that they cannot be wrong, but everybody else is.

 

[gamlet]

Do you believe there are absolute truths?
And if so, can a person come to know those truths?

Man's limited capacity cannot allow him to hold all truth. So, you say, "This I believe. But being human, I can be wrong."

 

[JaumeJ]

Either the truth of the Gospel as given by Yeshua, Jesus, is absolute or it is defective. Being defective would make it a lie rendering the hope of any self-proclaiming believers foolhearty.

Whatever Yahweh, God, teaches is true must be what philosophers have renamed absolute truth. As far as children are concerned, if something is true, it is true. No argument for them.

When anyone has received Yeshua, Jesus, and he reads the Word, I believe he should be prepared to believe what has been miraculously preserved for mankind with prayer and meditation. Otherwise he is thinking the Maker of all that is inferior in some manner or another, and those who believe know our God is totally capable, Almighty, amen.

 

[gamlet]

Then it appears you contradicted your earlier statement..

"It also includes the thinking that only our beliefs are those that are in accordance with truth and that others are either mistaken or are evil.''

or He had the fundamentalist thinking but not the attitude? Whaaa?

I solve this by saying, "I have certain beliefs. They are of great benefit to me. But I realize that God calls people to discipleship in different ways, therefore I do not doubt your relationship with God. But I also think that these things I believe can be of benefit to you. Please pray about it."

As for Jesus, He held firm beliefs. He tried to teach people the Gospel in ways that mostly goes beyond comprehension (mostly mine).

 

[gamlet]

Essentially, Fundamentalism does not deal with the fundamentals (the Hebrew language and the roots of the Judeo-Christian faith) but with the extraneous (KJV English translations and westernized Jewish traditions). And that is its flaw. If it weren't for this irony I'd have no problem with calling myself a Fundamentalist, since it is the fundamentals that matter.

I've been trying to point out that this thread talks about attitudes rather than beliefs.

 

[Dan58]

By rooting out, I mean rooting out the fundamentalist attitude in all of us. This attitude pertains to intolerance of those who hold beliefs unlike ours. It also includes the thinking that only our beliefs are those that are in accordance with truth and that others are either mistaken or are evil.

I don't think that fundamentalism is an attitude, but rather a fundamental interpretation of what's written. There are liberal minded Christians who believe everyone is going to heaven, gay marriage is okay, and that hell does not exist. A person who opposes these non-biblical beliefs does not need an attitude adjustment, nor do they need to be rooted out. However, I do agree that fundamentalist should not condemn others who interpret things differently. There certainly are some fundamentalist who appear as self-righteous and often misinterpret the scriptures themselves.

 

[TheAristocat]

I've been trying to point out that this thread talks about attitudes rather than beliefs.

Attitudes are also extraneous and irrelevant.

Except those that align with God's Word of course.

 

[CWJ]

Hello there,

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

I was saved by hearing that all had sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that the wages of sin is death, but that the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son had come into the world to save sinners, to give them the hope of eternal life and a righteousness from God. That he had died in my place that I may live unto God. I believed it. I was saved by God's grace.

That happened in 1960 when I was twelve years old. God has held me and kept me to this day.

Praise His Name!

He is faithful.

Chris

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hello Gamlet,

Someone asked me once if I was a fundamentalist, and I said 'Yes', for I believed that a fundamentalist was one who believed God's word in it's entirety. Those you describe do not sound like any believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that I have ever known.

There is extremism in all religion.
It is religion that kills and makes war.

Walk away from religion, and come into Christ.
Our fellowship is with the Father and with the Son, through the Spirit.
We are individuals, who stand before God, in Christ.

J I Packer wrote a book called 'Fundamentalism and the Word of God'. He tries to distinguish between conservative Biblical theology and a mindset which is prone to introduce other elements also.

 

[notuptome]

I've been trying to point out that this thread talks about attitudes rather than beliefs.

Oh my! In my neck of the woods we call that nit picking. Kind of like attempting to separate fly droppings from pepper.

God discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart through His word. Each mans perspective is his reality. Don't try to change others. Change yourself. Preach the gospel, pray for the lost and live as close as you can to the Lord. Let God do the things only He can do in the first place.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[crossnote]

Man's limited capacity cannot allow him to hold all truth. So, you say, "This I believe. But being human, I can be wrong."

so you do believe in an ultimate truth (scripture?) but our interpretation of it muddy the waters?

 

[gamlet]

J I Packer wrote a book called 'Fundamentalism and the Word of God'. He tries to distinguish between conservative Biblical theology and a mindset which is prone to introduce other elements also.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll try to look for it.

 

[gamlet]

Oh my! In my neck of the woods we call that nit picking. Kind of like attempting to separate fly droppings from pepper.

God discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart through His word. Each mans perspective is his reality. Don't try to change others. Change yourself. Preach the gospel, pray for the lost and live as close as you can to the Lord. Let God do the things only He can do in the first place.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I believe that preaching the Gospel accomplishes just this: changes people's perspectives and attitudes towards God, themselves and others. That's what I'm trying to do, beginning with myself, of course.

 

[gamlet]

so you do believe in an ultimate truth (scripture?) but our interpretation of it muddy the waters?

We may believe it to be crystal clear, but need to allow the fact of the limits of our human understanding.

 

[gamlet]

Attitudes are also extraneous and irrelevant.

Except those that align with God's Word of course.

And who's to say which attitudes align with the Word of God?

 

[gamlet]

I don't think that fundamentalism is an attitude, but rather a fundamental interpretation of what's written. There are liberal minded Christians who believe everyone is going to heaven, gay marriage is okay, and that hell does not exist. A person who opposes these non-biblical beliefs does not need an attitude adjustment, nor do they need to be rooted out. However, I do agree that fundamentalist should not condemn others who interpret things differently. There certainly are some fundamentalist who appear as self-righteous and often misinterpret the scriptures themselves.

As I use it here, fundamentalism refers to the attitude that results from the interpretation.

 

[Jackson123]

There are thing that easy to interpret, there are thing that difficult to interpret.

Jesus is the only way to salvation. It is easy, either one believe or not. But the material itself is simple and easy to understand.

 

[crossnote]

As I said in my reply to Dan, we speak differently today than did Jesus. So, we need to interpret Bible passages contextually. Just because Jesus proclaimed curses doesn't mean we can, too. How would He speak to people if He were alive today? And the answer is He would speak differently to different people. I would believe that He would take the most effective means of making people realize their need for a closer relationship with God. If you think you can lead a person closer to God by cursing him, go ahead. I think Jesus did that during his time.

I'll respectfully disagree as truth is truth in all ages..

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
(Heb 13:8)

The effectiveness is in the power of His Word not one's style. I see too much 'psychologizing' of His Word and it proves ineffective.