GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.

[GWH]

No, you have no connection to me or what I think or have learned. Is there something wrong with accepting Christ regarding salvation? (rhetorical question I would think) Scripture is really not more complicated than that. Now what happens after that is another story. Let's not conflate actual salvation through the blood of Christ and our walk that occurs after that fact. You may believe a gift may be viewed as spiritual if used for godly purposes, but that is not what is indicated in the Bible. Is it perhaps that you do not believe in actual spiritual gifts that you look for acceptance in edification through your own talents that you may have surrendered to God?

I have no problem with a person using their own gifts, probably also God given to an individual through DNA or whatever, but that is what we do for God. Now spiritual gifts on the other hand, are given by God to the individual according to His descretion. See the difference? On the one hand, the flow is from us to Him and the other is from Him to us.

Frankly, I would like to start a thread to discuss all that occurs at that actual salvation point in time but I hesitatte because I would not like to experience all the nonsense objections that might be flung at it. I don't mean you in that particullar case. But who knows, I may yet do it.

Our connection is agreement regarding GRFS, whether stated simply or more fully.

Let us not divorce saving faith at conversion from serving faith during sanctification.

How does viewing gifts used "for God" (edifying Christ's church/body) conflict with what is indicated in the Bible?
Is it perhaps that you have not had that insight?

Regarding a thread to discuss what occurs at the point of salvation, that is an appropriate topic for the Kerygma thread,
so please feel free to start that discussion there whenever you feel so led.

Over...

 

[GWH]

WB? is?

Are you saying that love is like a gift? That is we receive right away? Please clarify

I believe Romans 5:5 and Revelation 3:20 and 1Corinthians 12:13 indicate that God gives us His loving HS at the moment of repentance or point of salvation, and I encourage you to move this discussion to the Kerygma thread, which is about that moment/point.
Thanks.

 

[pinebeach]

I no longer call myself a (Southern) Baptist, mainly because I learned that OSAS is wrong
and also because the Statement of Faith does not make an accurate creed. Thus, I call myself a Christian.

How do you identify and why?

Christian

 

[pinebeach]

Our connection is agreement regarding GRFS, whether stated simply or more fully.

Let us not divorce saving faith at conversion from serving faith during sanctification.

How does viewing gifts used "for God" (edifying Christ's church/body) conflict with what is indicated in the Bible?
Is it perhaps that you have not had that insight?

Regarding a thread to discuss what occurs at the point of salvation, that is an appropriate topic for the Kerygma thread,
so please feel free to start that discussion there whenever you feel so led.

Over...

If B follows A, then they are not the same event. In fact one is an event and the other a lifetime and I don't see a divorce but rather a connection as a person follows Christ. Like a marriage. You marry a person and that is an event. What follows, let us hope, is not a divorce

Is it perhaps that you have not had that insight?

As I stated previously: I have no problem with a person using their own gifts, probably also God given to an individual through DNA or whatever, but that is what we do for God. Now spiritual gifts on the other hand, are given by God to the individual according to His descretion. See the difference? On the one hand, the flow is from us to Him and the other is from Him to us.

I am not God and I understand that no matter my offering, it is as nothing compared to what He gives. And I might add I certainly have my fair share of talent. (Snaps suspenders and smiles)

Regarding a thread to discuss what occurs at the point of salvation, that is an appropriate topic for the Kerygma thread,
so please feel free to start that discussion there whenever you feel so led.

I am not sure I am pronouncing Kerygma correctly though. I am also not sure I follow your descriptive of same. This leads me to believe I, if in fact I do, will start an unrelated thread. Thanks though.

 

[pinebeach]

I believe Romans 5:5 and Revelation 3:20 and 1Corinthians 12:13 indicate that God gives us His loving HS at the moment of repentance or point of salvation, and I encourage you to move this discussion to the Kerygma thread, which is about that moment/point.
Thanks.

Well of course He does but that is not what I asked.

 

[pinebeach]

Yeah because replying to your comment to me lol is way I called for I was never holding on to it so everything’s cool as far as I’m concerned

Well Jiminey Crickets glad that's settled.

 

[pinebeach]

GRFS

Are you really that short on time?

 

[GWH]

If B follows A, then they are not the same event. In fact one is an event and the other a lifetime and I don't see a divorce but rather a connection as a person follows Christ. Like a marriage. You marry a person and that is an event. What follows, let us hope, is not a divorce

As I stated previously: I have no problem with a person using their own gifts, probably also God given to an individual through DNA or whatever, but that is what we do for God. Now spiritual gifts on the other hand, are given by God to the individual according to His descretion. See the difference? On the one hand, the flow is from us to Him and the other is from Him to us.

I am not God and I understand that no matter my offering, it is as nothing compared to what He gives. And I might add I certainly have my fair share of talent. (Snaps suspenders and smiles)

I am not sure I am pronouncing Kerygma correctly though. I am also not sure I follow your descriptive of same. This leads me to believe I, if in fact I do, will start an unrelated thread. Thanks though.

I did not divorce conversion and sanctification, but neither did I connect them as closely as I do now thanks to discussions on CC.

I see no reason to view Paul's lists of gifts as excluding gifts/talents not listed, if they are used for the same godly purpose.

I would appreciate knowing where you do not follow my proposed kerygma/creed, so that I can amend it.
(I have made several tweaks to our website this week.)

If you start a thread having to do with salvation, there is no way it can be unrelated to the Kerygma thread.

 

[pinebeach]

I did not divorce conversion and sanctification, but neither did I connect them as closely as I do now thanks to discussions on CC.

I see no reason to view Paul's lists of gifts as excluding gifts/talents not listed, if they are used for the same godly purpose.

I would appreciate knowing where you do not follow my proposed kerygma/creed, so that I can amend it.
(I have made several tweaks to our website this week.)

If you start a thread having to do with salvation, there is no way it can be unrelated to the Kerygma thread.

Well now I did not say you were divorcing conversion and sanctification. You did say this: Let us not divorce saving faith at conversion from serving faith during sanctification. My response was based on what you said. You know, I am a pretty straightforward person so if you do not add to what I say or interpret what I say, understanding, not necessairly agreement, should follow.

I see no reason to view Paul's lists of gifts as excluding gifts/talents not listed, if they are used for the same godly purpose.

Tell me I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are giving the same import to your accomplishments through your gifts, as God giving spiritual gifts to those receiving them for His intended purpose. I have provided a very good answer with regards to the difference between us giving to God and God giving to us. You either did not read it or just wish to get to a point where pressing your own point becomes narcissistic. Let's hope not.

I have not even started a thread yet and you are wishing to add it as an adendum to your own efforts. I have begun thinking of ways it might differ now that I have had a number of exchanges with you. So there's that

 

[GWH]

Well now I did not say you were divorcing conversion and sanctification. You did say this: Let us not divorce saving faith at conversion from serving faith during sanctification. My response was based on what you said. You know, I am a pretty straightforward person so if you do not add to what I say or interpret what I say, understanding, not necessairly agreement, should follow.

Tell me I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are giving the same import to your accomplishments through your gifts, as God giving spiritual gifts to those receiving them for His intended purpose. I have provided a very good answer with regards to the difference between us giving to God and God giving to us. You either did not read it or just wish to get to a point where pressing your own point becomes narcissistic. Let's hope not.

I have not even started a thread yet and you are wishing to add it as an adendum to your own efforts. I have begun thinking of ways it might differ now that I have had a number of exchanges with you. So there's that

I did not say that you said I divorced anything; I was saying that I came to connect them more closely as the result of discussions on CC.

I believe 1Corinthians 12:4-26 teaches that all of gifts from God are important and none should be demeaned, which I assume your statement about "the difference between us giving to God and God giving to us" was not meant to contradict.

Whether or not you start a thread, I have been discussing this issue ever since joining CC almost a year ago.

 

[pinebeach]

I did not say that you said I divorced anything; I was saying that I came to connect them more closely as the result of discussions on CC.

I believe 1Corinthians 12:4-26 teaches that all of gifts from God are important and none should be demeaned, which I assume your statement about "the difference between us giving to God and God giving to us" was not meant to contradict.

Whether or not you start a thread, I have been discussing this issue ever since joining CC almost a year ago.

You believe this and you believe that. I believe what scripture states and do not think to give my own additions to it.

There are different kinds of gifts but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. (1 Cor. 12:4-5)

Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. (1 Pet. 4:10)

Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. (Romans 12:4-6a)

Romans 12:6-8

• Prophesy
• Ministry (pastors)
• Teaching
• Exhorter (encourager)
• Giver
• Leader
• Mercy

1 Corinthians 12:8-10

• The word of wisdom
• The word of knowledge
• Faith
• Gifts of healings
• Working of miracles
• Discerning of spirits
• Different kinds of tongues
• Interpretation of tongues

1 Corinthians 12:28

• Administration

Ephesians 4:11

• Apostles
• Evangelists

According to 1 Corinthians 12:4 and 1 Corinthians 12:11, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts as he wills. You can't handpick, buy, or do anything to get a particular spiritual gift.

 

[GWH]

You believe this and you believe that. I believe what scripture states and do not think to give my own additions to it.
There are different kinds of gifts but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. (1 Cor. 12:4-5)
Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. (1 Pet. 4:10)

Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. (Romans 12:4-6a)

Romans 12:6-8 Prophesy, Ministry (pastors), Teaching, Exhorter (encourager), Giver, Leader, Mercy

1 Corinthians 12:8-10 The word of wisdom, The word of knowledge, Faith, Gifts of healings, Working of miracles,
Discerning of spirits, Different kinds of tongues, Interpretation of tongues

1 Corinthians 12:28 Administration

Ephesians 4:11 Apostles, Evangelists

According to 1 Corinthians 12:4 and 1 Corinthians 12:11, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts as he wills. You can't handpick, buy, or do anything to get a particular spiritual gift.

I understand that you add to the Scriptures you cited a statement something like "the lists are exhaustive and God gives no gifts other than the ones in the lists", and I disagree with that addition although I agree with the Scriptures.

I also agree with your interpretation that "You can't handpick, buy, or do anything to get a particular spiritual gift."

Are we making progress?

Over...

 

[pinebeach]

I understand that you add to the Scriptures you cited a statement something like "the lists are exhaustive and God gives no gifts other than the ones in the lists", and I disagree with that addition although I agree with the Scriptures.

I also agree with your interpretation that "You can't handpick, buy, or do anything to get a particular spiritual gift."

Are we making progress?

Over...

I understand that you add to the Scriptures you cited a statement something like "the lists are exhaustive and God gives no gifts other than the ones in the lists"

I tell you what. Just quote what I actually said because your recall above is really not something I said.

You can't handpick, buy, or do anything to get a particular spiritual gift.

Do you understand the distinction between our own talents/gifts and what the Bible calls SPIRITUAL GIFTS? Because I have to tell you, I don't think you do. Or perhaps you do not think spiritual gifts are relevant in the year of our Lord 2025? You tell me and please quote me instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate results. Thank you

 

[GWH]

I tell you what. Just quote what I actually said because your recall above is really not something I said.

Do you understand the distinction between our own talents/gifts and what the Bible calls SPIRITUAL GIFTS? Because I have to tell you, I don't think you do. Or perhaps you do not think spiritual gifts are relevant in the year of our Lord 2025? You tell me and please quote me instead of paraphrasing with inaccurate results. Thank you

I see that you prefer to accuse me of adding to Scripture rather than to admit that you also make additions.

As I indicated, I used to distinguish between "our own talents" and "God's gifts",
but now I focus more on the import of 1Cor. 4:7 that every ability is enabled by God.

I guess it will be better for you to start your own thread.

 

[pinebeach]

I see that you prefer to accuse me of adding to Scripture rather than to admit that you also make additions.

As I indicated, I used to distinguish between "our own talents" and "God's gifts",
but now I focus more on the import of 1Cor. 4:7 that every ability is enabled by God.

I guess it will be better for you to start your own thread.

I have posted the scripture about spiritual gifts. You answer to God, not to me, so just pursue that route. It's your road after all.

Don't be disappointed about me adding to your thread. I made it plain from the get go I would not be doing that. In fact, I also stated I was not sure I would even start a thread about the transaction at salvation.

 

[GWH]

I have posted the scripture about spiritual gifts. You answer to God, not to me, so just pursue that route. It's your road after all.

Don't be disappointed about me adding to your thread. I made it plain from the get go I would not be doing that. In fact, I also stated I was not sure I would even start a thread about the transaction at salvation.

Yes, and I now completely agree.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well Jiminey Crickets glad that's settled.

Yep it’s always good to clarify misunderstandings God bless

 

[Ouch]

My purpose for you starting this thread was so you would stop polluting my threads with boring repetition, such as what you just did with posts #127 &128.

You and your ilk including Uncharming engage in pejorative persecution/insults rather than discussion of Scripture-based beliefs,
such as you just now ignoring my post #125.

I guess I wasted my time starting the thread.

Looks like you like telling people to start their own thread, why?

The reason for it was for you to prove what comes out of you mouth to be true.

What is sad is you don't even have the ability to see how wrong you are.

I also what to tell you I never insulted you, I called you a liar but what do you call someone who lies? Lies come from Satan not JESUS.

Policial correct so I don't hurt your feeling's "misspoke"?

In the past I asked you questions which lead to this thread simple ones you also never answered like.

Tell me, how does a person get reborn?

You like grandstanding and not answering questions!!

Which leads to more questions which leads to PING PONG!!!

Instead of keeping things simple you go down so many different roads.

What is sad is your so puffed up with yourself you can't see.

I think the only question JESUS didn't answer was this one.

Matthew 21:23-27
23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.



I ask you WHO gives you the authority to make statements that you make?

Who do you work for?

 

[GWH]

I guess I wasted my time starting the thread.

Looks like you like telling people to start their own thread, why?

The reason for it was for you to prove what comes out of you mouth to be true.

What is sad is you don't even have the ability to see how wrong you are.

I also what to tell you I never insulted you, I called you a liar but what do you call someone who lies? Lies come from Satan not JESUS.

Policial correct so I don't hurt your feeling's "misspoke"?

In the past I asked you questions which lead to this thread simple ones you also never answered like.

Tell me, how does a person get reborn?

You like grandstanding and not answering questions!!

Which leads to more questions which leads to PING PONG!!!

Instead of keeping things simple you go down so many different roads.

What is sad is your so puffed up with yourself you can't see.

I think the only question JESUS didn't answer was this one.

Matthew 21:23-27
23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

I ask you WHO gives you the authority to make statements that you make?

Who do you work for?

Exactly, but at least you wasted words on your thread rather than mine, so I thank you for that.
You have never shown why you are not wrong but rather mainly ranted, like in this post.
Look in the mirror when you make accusations.
I both keep things simple (Accept Jesus as Messiah and Lord) and elaborate or explore various doctrines per Heb. 6:1-3.
I answer with the same question Jesus asked in Matt. 21:25, and you will not answer because you ignore Matt. 3:11 & Gal. 5:1-12.
May you learn to be Aaah! instead of Ouch (2Tim. 4:6-18)! Happy trails!

 

[PaulThomson]

13. "and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling."
Yes, which pagan religions practiced, and Paul discouraged in 1 Corinthians 14:19.

Paul did not discourage speaking in tongues. Try reading the whole of chapter 14.

1Co 14:5
I would that you all spoke with tongues, but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1Co 14:13
Wherefore let him that speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Co 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all
1Co 14:27
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Co 14:39
¶Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.