Gospel Confusion...

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Musicmaster

Musicmaster

Well-known member
#141
Feb 8, 2021
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#141
Kroogz said:
Israel has fallen out of Grace........For the time being. God Is coming back for them and ALL that has been promised to them will come to fruition.

We(The Church/His bride)
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The idea that the BODY of Christ is the BRIDE of Christ at the same time, rather than Israel, that is one of many rudiments of replacement theology.

have many blessings that are unique to us. And Israel has many blessings unique to them. No one is "Above" anyone else.
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I agree with you that none is above the other. Israel has a stated purpose to serve the Lord, the body of Christ has its purpose, the little flock has its purpose, and the nations of the Gentiles have theirs. We, the body of Christ, are destined for Heavenly places. Israel is destined for the New Jerusalem upon the new earth, and the Gentile nations of those who did not receive the mark of the beast are destined to populate the Gentile nations surrounding the New Jerusalem.

Not everyone throughout history will end up in the same place of service and life in eternity, just as there is different rewards based upon the works of service and obedience each one lives out in their lives on this earth.

We see the reversionism of Israel in His word. They did not spread the good news to the WORLD. So, God is using His Church for that purpose in this dispensation. If his church fails......He will set up another route. But the Church still receives Its promises.
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Actually, Israel had fallen because of her continued rejection of Christ.

MM
 
Musicmaster

Musicmaster

Well-known member
#142
Feb 8, 2021
1,408
276
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#142
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Replacement theology has an unusual number of people believing that God is in the fallen sinner's game of marrying, divorcing and marrying another. This clearly defies what is written, as can be seen from a systematic study:

Jeremiah 3:8, 11-12, 14
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. ...
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. ...
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

We've all heard that the wedding ceremony is for the bride. Looking at these verses, and I encourage the reading of the entire context, we see that the Lord put Israel away with a bill of divorcement. It's expected that some Bible Cemetery trained individuals will nay-say this, but I will say it on the basis of the clear language of these passages and their context: The Lord clearly stated in verse 14, "...I am married unto you...", even after having put Israel away with a bill of divorcement.

The sad habit is very real for some who ignore tense and nuances within the text by way of speed reading, which means they overlook many details, the missing of which serves as justification for their false beliefs. In pride they boast of how many times they have read the Bible, a practice that leads to them missing so much of the richness of absolute truths that can only be gleaned by systematic and meticulous study. I've even heard some brag about having read the Bible more times than their age from men in their 70's. I remain unimpressed with the numbers they spout, for their ignorance of the scriptures is betrayed in their false beliefs and teachings.

What we can see in this text and its context is that the Lord gave to Israel a divorcement, and yet HE was still married to her. It was SHE who was divorced, and it will be SHE who will be joined back unto the Lord once more toward the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 19). That wedding is for the bride, not the groom, for the groom, dare we believe what He stated through Jeremiah, that He remained married...committed to Israel as HIs bride and wife.

This foolishness that so many have bought into in trying to force the body of Christ into the place of Israel...again, nothing but the trash of replacement theology that defies the clear language of scripture. That city, adorned as His bride, occupied by the remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ, adorned and made ready as His bride, THAT is the reality we should all be embracing. The body of Christ will be where the Lord said we will be, which is in Heavenly places:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The new earth will not be in Heavenly places. It will be an earth like this one, only free of all sin after this old earth is burned up. The text gives us no reason to allegorize/etherealize the new earth as being only an adjective, but rather a noun. How much more clear can it be stated when it says that the New Jerusalem descends down from God OUT OF HEAVEN...? I mean, seriously, these things remain a mystery to those who do not study their Bibles, or only read the Bible like a novel rather than to study it in detail.

MM
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#143
Nov 1, 2024
2,141
662
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#143
Musicmaster said:
That city, adorned as His bride, occupied by the remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ, adorned and made ready as His bride, THAT is the reality we should all be embracing. The body of Christ will be where the Lord said we will be, which is in Heavenly places:
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The bride of Christ is is the body of Christ.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a pure virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the oneness that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2-3​
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Musicmaster

Musicmaster

Well-known member
#144
Feb 8, 2021
1,408
276
83
#144
It's interesting that the few posters who did their hit-n-run posting, where they claimed the gospel of salvation is the same throughout, every dispensation and age, thus Peter and Paul allegedly both preached the same gospel, they aren't saying anything now. They never did post scriptural quotes to prove their case, only yammering the usual fare of rhetoric in their own words, as if that proved anything at all.

I hope they have now begun to accept what scripture says in the place of the plethora of falsehoods taught by their hireling pastors, favorite false teaching online preachers and teachers, favorite false teaching book writers, periodicals and devotional writers, et al.

The desperation behind labeling everything and everyone who doesn't agree with them and their false teaching hoards and fellow band wagoneers that they support, even applying the most popular labels to themselves as if those were badges of honor, pride and empowerment to teach others their chosen falsehoods, especially when their false believing buddies jump onboard with them in support, where are they now? Their silence speaks loud volumes to the lack of air in their blown-out tires.

My hope is that they ALL have begun to read up in the scriptures on this topic and realized that they've been lied to, fed falsehoods so easily ground into powder under the rock of truth rooted in the scriptures and effective against their many falsehoods. My only desire is for all possess a willingness to read the words of the Bible for what they say rather than to allegorize like we see followers of Reformed Theology doing as a matter of routine, even jamming additional wording into key scripture passages to try and make it all conform to their personal dogmas.

May the Lord bless all who approach the word of God with a willingness to allow HIs words to speak for themselves.

MM
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#145
Nov 1, 2024
2,141
662
113
#145
Musicmaster said:
It's interesting that the few posters who did their hit-n-run posting, where they claimed the gospel of salvation is the same throughout, every dispensation and age, thus Peter and Paul allegedly both preached the same gospel, they aren't saying anything now. They never did post scriptural quotes to prove their case, only yammering the usual fare of rhetoric in their own words, as if that proved anything at all.

I hope they have now begun to accept what scripture says in the place of the plethora of falsehoods taught by their hireling pastors, favorite false teaching online preachers and teachers, favorite false teaching book writers, periodicals and devotional writers, et al.

The desperation behind labeling everything and everyone who doesn't agree with them and their false teaching hoards and fellow band wagoneers that they support, even applying the most popular labels to themselves as if those were badges of honor, pride and empowerment to teach others their chosen falsehoods, especially when their false believing buddies jump onboard with them in support, where are they now? Their silence speaks loud volumes to the lack of air in their blown-out tires.

My hope is that they ALL have begun to read up in the scriptures on this topic and realized that they've been lied to, fed falsehoods so easily ground into powder under the rock of truth rooted in the scriptures and effective against their many falsehoods. My only desire is for all possess a willingness to read the words of the Bible for what they say rather than to allegorize like we see followers of Reformed Theology doing as a matter of routine, even jamming additional wording into key scripture passages to try and make it all conform to their personal dogmas.

May the Lord bless all who approach the word of God with a willingness to allow HIs words to speak for themselves.

MM
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Don't flatter yourself. Your passive-aggressive abusive language towards those who disagree with you; your ignoring and glossing over refutations of your heretical views, coupled with your abysmal ignorance of scripture and horrible exegesis doesn't provide a lot of incentive to bother with refuting your inane ramblings
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#146
Jan 13, 2016
17,466
3,758
113
#146
Musicmaster said:
It's interesting that the few posters who did their hit-n-run posting, where they claimed the gospel of salvation is the same throughout, every dispensation and age, thus Peter and Paul allegedly both preached the same gospel, they aren't saying anything now. They never did post scriptural quotes to prove their case, only yammering the usual fare of rhetoric in their own words, as if that proved anything at all.

I hope they have now begun to accept what scripture says in the place of the plethora of falsehoods taught by their hireling pastors, favorite false teaching online preachers and teachers, favorite false teaching book writers, periodicals and devotional writers, et al.

The desperation behind labeling everything and everyone who doesn't agree with them and their false teaching hoards and fellow band wagoneers that they support, even applying the most popular labels to themselves as if those were badges of honor, pride and empowerment to teach others their chosen falsehoods, especially when their false believing buddies jump onboard with them in support, where are they now? Their silence speaks loud volumes to the lack of air in their blown-out tires.

My hope is that they ALL have begun to read up in the scriptures on this topic and realized that they've been lied to, fed falsehoods so easily ground into powder under the rock of truth rooted in the scriptures and effective against their many falsehoods. My only desire is for all possess a willingness to read the words of the Bible for what they say rather than to allegorize like we see followers of Reformed Theology doing as a matter of routine, even jamming additional wording into key scripture passages to try and make it all conform to their personal dogmas.

May the Lord bless all who approach the word of God with a willingness to allow HIs words to speak for themselves.

MM
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but before the second coming of Christ, the angel will preach the everlasting gospel. It is obvious that this message is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Revelation 14:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
 
S

studier

Well-known member
#147
Apr 18, 2024
1,873
410
83
#147
Musicmaster said:
Some common sayings among many believers are:

“There's only one gospel throughout all the Bible, and so everyone is saved in the exact same way.”
“Jesus, along with His 12 apostles, and along with Paul, all preached the same gospel message.”
“All that happened was Paul came along later and continued Peter's ministry gospel and ministry, but to the Gentiles.”

Those claims sound very biblical to many, but are the assumptions behind these claims correct?

1. To whom did Jesus and His 12 disciples preach?
2. What was their gospel message?
3. Paul was the apostle to....whom?
4. What was Paul's gospel that he preached?

Please share your thoughts on these questions.

MM
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The Gospel is the Good News re: YHWH's CHRIST/KING which is also the message of the Kingdom of God/Heaven. John the Baptist taught it. Jesus taught it. His disciples taught it. Paul taught it.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#148
Jan 13, 2016
17,466
3,758
113
#148
studier said:
The Gospel is the Good News re: YHWH's CHRIST/KING which is also the message of the Kingdom of God/Heaven. John the Baptist taught it. Jesus taught it. His disciples taught it. Paul taught it.
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Can you post scripture where the disciples taught it?
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#150
Nov 1, 2024
2,141
662
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#150
John146 said:
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but before the second coming of Christ, the angel will preach the everlasting gospel. It is obvious that this message is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Revelation 14:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Click to expand...
How do you come to conclusions like this? The everlasting gospel is not verse 7
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#155
Nov 1, 2024
2,141
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#155
John146 said:
The angel preached...saying....
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Gospel means good news. Announcing the hour of God's judgment is not good news. He's telling the inhabitants of earth to repent and worship God (the gospel) because the hour of judgment is upon them (not the gospel)
 
L

Leastofall

Active member
#156
Nov 3, 2024
102
45
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#156
Musicmaster said:
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Replacement theology has an unusual number of people believing that God is in the fallen sinner's game of marrying, divorcing and marrying another. This clearly defies what is written, as can be seen from a systematic study:

Jeremiah 3:8, 11-12, 14
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. ...
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. ...
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

We've all heard that the wedding ceremony is for the bride. Looking at these verses, and I encourage the reading of the entire context, we see that the Lord put Israel away with a bill of divorcement. It's expected that some Bible Cemetery trained individuals will nay-say this, but I will say it on the basis of the clear language of these passages and their context: The Lord clearly stated in verse 14, "...I am married unto you...", even after having put Israel away with a bill of divorcement.

The sad habit is very real for some who ignore tense and nuances within the text by way of speed reading, which means they overlook many details, the missing of which serves as justification for their false beliefs. In pride they boast of how many times they have read the Bible, a practice that leads to them missing so much of the richness of absolute truths that can only be gleaned by systematic and meticulous study. I've even heard some brag about having read the Bible more times than their age from men in their 70's. I remain unimpressed with the numbers they spout, for their ignorance of the scriptures is betrayed in their false beliefs and teachings.

What we can see in this text and its context is that the Lord gave to Israel a divorcement, and yet HE was still married to her. It was SHE who was divorced, and it will be SHE who will be joined back unto the Lord once more toward the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 19). That wedding is for the bride, not the groom, for the groom, dare we believe what He stated through Jeremiah, that He remained married...committed to Israel as HIs bride and wife.

This foolishness that so many have bought into in trying to force the body of Christ into the place of Israel...again, nothing but the trash of replacement theology that defies the clear language of scripture. That city, adorned as His bride, occupied by the remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ, adorned and made ready as His bride, THAT is the reality we should all be embracing. The body of Christ will be where the Lord said we will be, which is in Heavenly places:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The new earth will not be in Heavenly places. It will be an earth like this one, only free of all sin after this old earth is burned up. The text gives us no reason to allegorize/etherealize the new earth as being only an adjective, but rather a noun. How much more clear can it be stated when it says that the New Jerusalem descends down from God OUT OF HEAVEN...? I mean, seriously, these things remain a mystery to those who do not study their Bibles, or only read the Bible like a novel rather than to study it in detail.

MM
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Just a question not a judgment on what you have posted. Isn't the story of Abraham after the offering of his son a story of a father looking for a bride for his son and his servant is a picture of the Holy Spirit?
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#157
Nov 1, 2024
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#157
John146 said:
I see nothing about where the disciples were preaching the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That is the gospel Paul preached.
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Are you like MM and don't read the bible?

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Acts 2:22-24​
​
Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:37-38​
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#158
Jan 13, 2016
17,466
3,758
113
#158
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Are you like MM and don't read the bible?

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Acts 2:22-24​
​
Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:37-38​
Click to expand...
Peter is preaching a national repentance, the same as John the Baptist.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#160
Nov 1, 2024
2,141
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#160
John146 said:
Peter is preaching a national repentance, the same as John the Baptist.
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What does that even mean? They were gathering the remnant of Israel one by one as prophesied.

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. Isaiah 27:12​
 
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