HAVE YOU BEEN TO PURGATORY?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

How's that! Now you got a like too! I like your spunk though I disagree (vehemently) with your theology!

Aw shucks! Just keep reading . . . my theology will grow on you. It's good to run across people that are forceful, passionate, and have intense manner; with great feeling.

It means that you are not vapid!

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus never sinned.. He was perfect... What's that got to do with they way of salvation ?

If Jesus followed the law,then His example would be to follow or not follow the law?

 

[Chester]

Aw shucks! Just keep reading . . . my theology will grow on you. It's good to run across people that are forceful, passionate, and have intense manner; with great feeling.

It means that you are not vapid!

I like you as a person, but no theology will "grow on me" that throws out three books of the New Testament for the millennium or the Jews. Not now, not tomorrow, not next year, not in the millennium, not in heaven, NEVER!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I like you as a person, but no theology will "grow on me" that throws out three books of the New Testament for the millennium or the Jews. Not now, not tomorrow, not next year, not in the millennium, not in heaven, NEVER!

I don't throw them out . . . I just understand that the primary audience are to believers that were saved under the Jewish economy. Abraham was saved, just as Paul shows . . .

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:1-5).

He was saved but it was a covenant that had to be maintained by the believer through sacrifices, gifts and offerings prescribed by Moses. In the Old Testament Judaism was a works-based religion.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed" (Galatians 3:19-23).

 

[Adstar]

If Jesus followed the law,then His example would be to follow or not follow the law?

To do ones best to follow the Law......

BUT!!!!!! No one succeeds in following the Law to the level of perfection God requires for people to be justified by Law adherence...

THEREFORE!!!!! All people need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to have eternity with God in his perfect existence...

 

[jaybird88]

To do ones best to follow the Law......

thats all one can do, thats what i expect of my children, why would our Father in heaven be any different.

BUT!!!!!! No one succeeds in following the Law

with that kind of attitude you never will, not your fault as this is how most are taught today however Jesus taught we could move mountains if our faith was strong enough, do you believe that?

to the level of perfection God requires for people to be justified by Law adherence...

why would the Father give laws that He knew was impossible for anyone to follow, this sounds like the act of a cruel being and nothing like the Father of Jesus.

THEREFORE!!!!! All people need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to have eternity with God in his perfect existence...

ok?? and that means what exactly? i hear things like this all the time and these are always more or less empty proclamations. if this "atonement" does not have an effect on how you live your life, then whats the point of it.

 

[Adstar]

thats all one can do, thats what i expect of my children, why would our Father in heaven be any different.

Yes we can only try to do the Law.. But no one ever succeeds without failing.

with that kind of attitude you never will, not your fault as this is how most are taught today however Jesus taught we could move mountains if our faith was strong enough, do you believe that?

You can have the most disaplined and fanatical level attitude about Law doing and you will still fail to achieve perfection in living to the perfect standards of God... Attitude has nothing to do with the eventual outcome.. We humans are destined to break the Laws of God.. Everyone should realize this by looking at their own performance and being honest about how many times they have failed to live upo to the standards of God..

why would the Father give laws that He knew was impossible for anyone to follow, this sounds like the act of a cruel being and nothing like the Father of Jesus.

So that we would know the need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus when He came and secured it for us... Our inability to live up to the standards of God's Law reveals our need for Gods mercy and His Way of salvation..

ok?? and that means what exactly? i hear things like this all the time and these are always more or less empty proclamations. if this "atonement" does not have an effect on how you live your life, then whats the point of it.

His Atonement pays the penalty sinners deserve to recieve... Jesus stood in our place and suffered death because death is the penalty for sin which is upon all mankind.. Unless we have Jesus to take our punishment we are doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Jesus did not die for nothing,, He died as a willing sacrafice that we symbolically call the Lamb of God.. His death has the effect of saving every person from the lake of fire who believes Jesus and trusts in what He did to on the cross to Redeem them..

 

[jaybird88]

Yes we can only try to do the Law.. But no one ever succeeds without failing.

Jesus did.

You can have the most disaplined and fanatical level attitude about Law doing and you will still fail to achieve perfection in living to the perfect standards of God... Attitude has nothing to do with the eventual outcome.. We humans are destined to break the Laws of God.. Everyone should realize this by looking at their own performance and being honest about how many times they have failed to live upo to the standards of God..

And i I guess this would mean you dont believe what Jesus taught but rather hold steadfast to the traditions of man.

So that we would know the need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus when He came and secured it for us... Our inability to live up to the standards of God's Law reveals our need for Gods mercy and His Way of salvation..

This is another empty statement. The only reason for the law is to break the law and seek atonement? There is zero substance in that, you make the laws in themselves completely arbitrary, useless, they could be laws on anything.

His Atonement pays the penalty sinners deserve to recieve... Jesus stood in our place and suffered death because death is the penalty for sin which is upon all mankind.. Unless we have Jesus to take our punishment we are doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Jesus did not die for nothing,, He died as a willing sacrafice that we symbolically call the Lamb of God.. His death has the effect of saving every person from the lake of fire who believes Jesus and trusts in what He did to on the cross to Redeem them..

Again, couldnt disagree more. I dont see the example of Jesus out doing all the work for His disciples, I see Him teaching them how to do what He did.
I good teacher would never do all the work for the students, it will just set the students up for failure, it teaches the students nothing.

 

[Adstar]

Jesus did.



And i I guess this would mean you dont believe what Jesus taught but rather hold steadfast to the traditions of man.



This is another empty statement. The only reason for the law is to break the law and seek atonement? There is zero substance in that, you make the laws in themselves completely arbitrary, useless, they could be laws on anything.

His Atonement pays the penalty sinners deserve to recieve... Jesus stood in our place and suffered death because death is the penalty for sin which is upon all mankind.. Unless we have Jesus to take our punishment we are doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire..


Again, couldnt disagree more. I dont see the example of Jesus out doing all the work for His disciples, I see Him teaching them how to do what He did.
I good teacher would never do all the work for the students, it will just set the students up for failure, it teaches the students nothing.

Jesus was not a man like us born with the corrupted sin nature.. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh and was always without sin..

As for the rest of your reply it is now clear to me you are not a Christian at all.. You are in a works salvation religion no matter what you call it.. In the end you will see that your efforts at law following will fail to obtain for you eternity with God in his perfect existence..

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus was not a man like us born with the corrupted sin nature.. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh and was always without sin..

James says the Most High can not be tempted and Hebrews says Jesus was tempted just the same as we are.
another problem with your theory, Jesus teaches His followers to follow Him, but according to you we can not, that sounds like the hypocrites Jesus taught against.

As for the rest of your reply it is now clear to me you are not a Christian at all.. You are in a works salvation religion no matter what you call it.. In the end you will see that your efforts at law following will fail to obtain for you eternity with God in his perfect existence..

ohh goodness, now im not a Christian because i do not share your opinion. what arrogance.
you can call it works salvation, i call it flowing the example of Jesus salvation.
this "grace" salvation that you follow, everyone, every church has a different definition of it. but there is only one example of Jesus.

 

[jameen]

I as a Catholic starts to believe that there is no need for purgatory in order to be cleansed. why?

1 Peter 4:8 NASB

"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. "

See if you have love in your faith as Apostle Peter taught in his letter, your sins will be covered.

Even our separated Orthodox brethren never believe in purgatory because if really does it exist, Jesus should have mention its existence and the word itself.

Besides, a Catholic does not know if his departed loved one either went to heaven, hell or purgatory.

perhaps purgatory is really invented in order for my Church to get lots of funds from parishioners.

What is funny in the doctrine of purgatory is you need to pay in order to release a man there. Making God a bribable being to compel Him to release him out of that place.

But God is not a bribable God.

2 Chronicles 19:7 “Now then let the fear of the LORD be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the LORD our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe.” - NASB

 

[Jewel5712]

No..

 

[Adstar]

James says the Most High can not be tempted and Hebrews says Jesus was tempted just the same as we are.
another problem with your theory, Jesus teaches His followers to follow Him, but according to you we can not, that sounds like the hypocrites Jesus taught against.


ohh goodness, now im not a Christian because i do not share your opinion. what arrogance.
you can call it works salvation, i call it flowing the example of Jesus salvation.
this "grace" salvation that you follow, everyone, every church has a different definition of it. but there is only one example of Jesus.

Jesus was tempted but without ever failing into temptation... Jesus never sinned ..

And yes i said you are not a brother in Christ because i truly believe it...
No arrogance required to declare it when one truly believes it...

 

[Adstar]

I as a Catholic starts to believe that there is no need for purgatory in order to be cleansed. why?

1 Peter 4:8 NASB

"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. "

The Love that covers a multitude of sins is the Love of Jesus.. The love of the truth that saves..

Those who reject the Love of the truth will not have salvation..

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

 

[Jewel5712]

If Jesus followed the law,then His example would be to follow or not follow the law?

Lol..Jesus was often a rebel ahainst the law of man but kept law of God..

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus was tempted but without ever failing into temptation... Jesus never sinned ..

ok, i never said different. but back to what i actually was talking about, according to you Jesus was nothing like the rest of us, according to Hebrews He was tempted just the same as the rest of us.

And yes i said you are not a brother in Christ because i truly believe it...
No arrogance required to declare it when one truly believes it...

??? that makes little sense at all. im sure child molesters "truly" believe in what they do, none the less it doesnt make it right lol.

 

[Jewel5712]

ok, i never said different. but back to what i actually was talking about, according to you Jesus was nothing like the rest of us, according to Hebrews He was tempted just the same as the rest of us.


??? that makes little sense at all. im sure child molesters "truly" believe in what they do, none the less it doesnt make it right lol.

Most molosters know what they do is wrong..they just dont care..

 

[jaybird88]

Lol..Jesus was often a rebel ahainst the law of man but kept law of God..

when people refer to "the law", they are talking about the law of the Most High.
"we have to follow the laws of MAN!!" see how dumb that sounds.

Most molosters know what they do is wrong..they just dont care..

ok, did you have a point?