He became sin...???

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Oct 3, 2015
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Read the bible ..satan tempted them through deception ..with lies
Why is that so hard to understand?
Because it doesn't say "tempted". It does speak of deception though.

You can't be tempted without something in you responding to that temptation. Otherwise temptation is meaningless.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of
the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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And for you to say you don't know how satan could be perfect and yet have sin..YET declare that you know Christ (who is clearly perfect) has sin because of some logic you hold...shows how full of error you are.
Stop your false accusations. Stop letting Satan control you through your flesh. Let Christ be seen and not the old man....
 
Oct 3, 2015
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Wow... you seem to know him on a personal level? All this nonsense to say that Jesus had a sin nature? Despite the clear and evident reading of the scriptures? I think you have some sick desire to blaspheme Christ, as many who hold false doctrines do.

Are you a Jahovahs Witness?
I'm through with you. You are acting as a agent of Satan. Your accusations are unfounded. I think you are a Troll. Sorry, but I say this by your actions.
 
Jul 23, 2015
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Satan is mentioned in Job... or ha Satan (the Satan). See Job 1:6-12. Also in 1 Kings 11:14, among many other places. The Hebrew word 'satan' literally means "adversary" or " enemy" and the Greek word "diabolos" literally means "slanderer" or "accuser." Satan is mentioned about 50 times here: http://www.openbible.info/topics/satan
Yes my sister :happy:
The word Lucifer means " the light bringer " or "bringer of light"
Please correct us if we are wrong . ...

:smoke: it was written only in Latin vulgata and translated to English from this day
But never in the Hebrew or in Aramaic :whistle:

God bless us all always

:ty:
 
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Oct 3, 2015
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Perfect is such a miss-leading term.
Then your argument is with the Bible because that's what it says.

So what you want to imply about Lucifer is he had no capacity to sin, which again is not true, as he did sin.
There was nothing in Lucifer that would tempt him to sin. He had only the indwelling of God's Spirit. He too was created in the likeness and image of God. Sin, therefore is a mystery. Sin being the love of self (a condition, not an act)

Jesus describes him as the father of lies.
Yes, after the fall. Lucifer was before the fall. Try to keep to the subject....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Yes my sister :happy:
The word Lucifer means " the light bringer " or "bringer of light"
Please correct us if we are wrong . ...

:smoke: it was written only in Latin vulgata and translated to English from this day
But never in the Hebrew or in Aramaic :whistle:

God bless us all always

:ty:
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV)

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

God bless you, too! :)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
I'm through with you. You are acting as a agent of Satan. Your accusations are unfounded. I think you are a Troll. Sorry, but I say this by your actions.
Just tell me are you a Jehovahs witness? because you doctrines seem to agree with their error?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Then your argument is with the Bible because that's what it says.



There was nothing in Lucifer that would tempt him to sin. He had only the indwelling of God's Spirit. He too was created in the likeness and image of God. Sin, therefore is a mystery. Sin being the love of self (a condition, not an act)



Yes, after the fall. Lucifer was before the fall. Try to keep to the subject....
So satan wasn't tempted to fall...but did Adam and eve wasn't tempted to fall but did? Not sure you understand what the term temptation means?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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The essence of sin is a u-turn agape
You sound like a ninja. The whole of sin wrapped up in one sentence. So agape, sacrificing things yourself for the benefit of others. Now your definition is sacrifice but for things for yourself. The trouble is a lot of sin involves no sacrifice, greed, gluttony, sex. Some is indulgent by both parties.

So it falls apart even at the first glance. You are taking a word iniquity, meaning sinners all around, including the person themselves, and again trying to call this a condition and not a state of being because of an act of sin.

In moral terms, a murderer is no different to anyone except they murdered someone. This is the basic 101 of morality.
You could believe sin is actually a demon, which forces behaviour on people, but it does not make it true. You could read it into all scripture, a small twist, but it is simply denying what morality is or sin.

You could say the reality of righteousness or the kingdom of heaven is the parable of the vine. Being part of the vine, you are alive and real, apart, you dry up and die. Now that is biblical, straight from Jesus.

You are so convinced about your idea, but it denies the reality of what we know of life, and the reality of Jesus becoming a man.
 
Jul 23, 2015
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12πβ
πωϲ εξεπεϲεν εκ
του ουρανου ο εωϲ
φοροϲ ο πρωϊ ανα
τελλων ˙ ϲυνετρι
βη ειϲ την γην · α
ποϲτελλων ειϲ
* codex sinaiticus
12 πωϲ εξεπεϲεν εκ του ουρανου ο εωϲφοροϲ ο πρωϊ ανατελλων ˙ ϲυνετριβη ειϲ την γην · αποϲτελλων ειϲ παντα τα εθη


Isaiah: 14. 12. How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!
~:»ESV

:smoke: thank you very much :happy:

Likewise always
 
Nov 23, 2013
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12πβ
πωϲ εξεπεϲεν εκ
του ουρανου ο εωϲ
φοροϲ ο πρωϊ ανα
τελλων ˙ ϲυνετρι
βη ειϲ την γην · α
ποϲτελλων ειϲ
* codex sinaiticus
12 πωϲ εξεπεϲεν εκ του ουρανου ο εωϲφοροϲ ο πρωϊ ανατελλων ˙ ϲυνετριβη ειϲ την γην · αποϲτελλων ειϲ παντα τα εθη


Isaiah: 14. 12. How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!
~:»ESV

:smoke: thank you very much :happy:

Likewise always
Not a good translation you're using... Jesus is the morning star, he didn't fall from heaven, Lucifer did.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
 
Apr 14, 2011
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Not a good translation you're using... Jesus is the morning star, he didn't fall from heaven, Lucifer did.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
The ESV is a good translation. It tries to get what the text says word for word. Also, Jesus can be the morning star as seen in Rev 2:27-28. Since Satan was trying to take God's position, he could also be called the morning star, as shown in Isaiah 14:12. There is no problem with the translation here. God bless. :)
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
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You can become obedient, but you can't become obedience. You can become sinful, but you can't become sin any more than you can become obedience. Jesus didn't literally become sin, but He was identified with our sin that we could be identified with His righteousness. Praise God! That's the point of the verse. So many people want to engage in theological hairsplitting and they miss the whole point.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
You can become obedient, but you can't become obedience. You can become sinful, but you can't become sin any more than you can become obedience. Jesus didn't literally become sin, but He was identified with our sin that we could be identified with His righteousness. Praise God! That's the point of the verse. So many people want to engage in theological hairsplitting and they miss the whole point.
So whats the point of the cross if typology is all that is needed? For someone to say that something in the bible cannot be true because it don't make sense to their natural understanding, is to reject a large portion of the bible altogether. No!

The scriptures says He was made sin...not he became a symbolic sacrifice for sin. They already had that under the law.

I would point out that "sin" is used as a noun and not always as a verb by Paul.

Ro 7:17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
 
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Oct 3, 2015
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Just tell me are you a Jehovahs witness? because you doctrines seem to agree with their error?
I'm not telling you anything about me because it's none of your business!

You aren't interested in truth. You twist what I say.

Matt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
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I didn't say that typology is all that was needed. I said that He didn't literally become sin. The sacrifice was necessary. Without the shedding of blood there's no remission of sins. But the figurative speech is applicable to His death just as it is applicable to our salvation. Are we literally righteousness? No, but His righteousness is imputed to us by faith, just as our sin was placed on Him on the cross. Believers are called Christ, light, the temple of God, branches, sheep ... etc. None of that is meant to be taken literally. Understanding figurative speech is crucial in interpreting the Bible. If you try to apply a literal meaning to everything you'll end up hopelessly confused, believing that Jesus is a vine, a door, a lamb, a shepherd, a lion, and a rose. The message isn't contained in the literal wording but in the truth that it conveys.
 
B

BradC

Guest
How do you know? That's like saying God cant do something because it don't make sense to you. How can Christ take your sin 2000 years before you was born?
Good point.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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I didn't say that typology is all that was needed. I said that He didn't literally become sin.
This isn't a symbolic passage. This isn't Revelation or Daniel. This is Paul.

We have to look at the whole context to arrive at truth:

Let's start with 2 Cor 5:14[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"[/FONT]For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died"

Christ's death was a corporate death. Not only did His life from Mary die, we died too.

But you'll say "I'm still living". Yes, you the individual are living that's true, but from where did you obtain your humanity?

Answer: Adam (see Acts 17:26) So the life that died "in Christ" belongs to all of us. Since Christ came to save sinners, the only life that need saving was our fallen life. That life died "in Christ" 2000 years ago because when One died, all died.

verse 16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh (fallen human nature); even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

Paul states that we need to view potential believers, not as they are in "the flesh", but as they are "in Christ in the heavenly places" (see Eph 2:6). "In Christ" we have a glorified humanity, free from our fallen humanity indwelt by our bent-to-self.

Verse 17: Therefore if anyone is in Christ (by faith is implied) , he is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.....

"In Christ" (and He is in heaven - the most holy place) we have a new creation, free from indwelling sin and immortal. That's our position "in Christ". Christ left our old life from Adam in the grave. It wasn't resurrected in Him.

Verse 20 Therefore (now Paul is making his conclusion), we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God (i.e., accept this good news)

Verse 21: He (God the Father) made Him (Christ as God) who knew no sin to be sin (as the son of Mary) on our behalf, so that we (sinners) might become the righteousness of God in Him.

God the Father took our shared, fallen, human life, from the womb of Mary, and united it to Christ's Deity. In doing so Christ became the son of Mary. As the son Mary He took our humanity in it's fallen condition.

Therefore during His life he had to contended with "sin in the flesh", but unlike us He never succumb to it's lusts. Through the Spirit of God He persistently said "no" to the flesh. Hence Christ lived a perfect life where we have failed.

But because He assumed our fallen life, that life had to die. And it did die, eternally, upon the cross. Hence the justice of God's law has been legally fulfilled.

Hence "in Christ" you can say that my fallen life was made obedient to the law of God and you can also say that my old life from Adam died the curse of the law "in Christ". Hence in Christ I have answered the law and I have now, through faith, been delivered from under it's wrath.

That's the everlasting gospel.