He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
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all doctrines and denominations aside, we're Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
if, a Follower of God, did what Demus did to Paul, to someone over a different Doctrine/Denomination, they're the SAME TYPE of Snake.
WE ALL went through Jesus to get to the Father.
even the ONENESS, even though they do not define it the same way [for those who Believe Jesus is GOD].
[some oneness deny Jesus, which makes no sense to me].
if, a Follower of God, did what Demus did to Paul, to someone over a different Doctrine/Denomination, they're the SAME TYPE of Snake.
WE ALL went through Jesus to get to the Father.
even the ONENESS, even though they do not define it the same way [for those who Believe Jesus is GOD].
[some oneness deny Jesus, which makes no sense to me].
especially here in the USA.
i read all the time the Muslim yanking out Christians, telling them, Deny Christ, or die.
if that happened here in the STATES, 70% would say, Jesus WHO?
– A young Christian man in Punjab, Pakistan, was murdered earlier this month by a Muslim neighbor whose historically violent behavior and claimed hatred of Christians and Jews worsened after the Oct. 7 attack on Israel by the Hamas Palestinian terror group, International Christian Concern (ICC) reports.
– Five Christian girls in Nigeria’s Kano state were recently violently harassed by Islamic police who blocked them from going to church and who threatened they might kill them, saying: “Israel is killing our sisters in Gaza,” International Christian Concern (ICC) reports.
– Grieving Christians in northwest Nigeria asked for prayers as more details emerged Monday about the killing of two church leaders in ongoing anti-Christian violence in the West African nation.
article after article
if that was here, they would denounce God.
i read all the time the Muslim yanking out Christians, telling them, Deny Christ, or die.
if that happened here in the STATES, 70% would say, Jesus WHO?
– A young Christian man in Punjab, Pakistan, was murdered earlier this month by a Muslim neighbor whose historically violent behavior and claimed hatred of Christians and Jews worsened after the Oct. 7 attack on Israel by the Hamas Palestinian terror group, International Christian Concern (ICC) reports.
– Five Christian girls in Nigeria’s Kano state were recently violently harassed by Islamic police who blocked them from going to church and who threatened they might kill them, saying: “Israel is killing our sisters in Gaza,” International Christian Concern (ICC) reports.
– Grieving Christians in northwest Nigeria asked for prayers as more details emerged Monday about the killing of two church leaders in ongoing anti-Christian violence in the West African nation.
article after article
if that was here, they would denounce God.
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Stick with what is actually in the Bible. Only God knows whether your friend was saved or not, since you do not know anyone's heart.
Also "Once Saved Always Saved" is merely a catch phrase (not found in the Bible). The Bible has many other ways of presenting THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER. If you do not believe in that, then you do not really believe God, or Christ, or the Bible. You simply believe the doctrines of men.
One could present scores of verses to confirm this solid Bible truth -- that when God gives the gift of eternal life to someone, He does not take it back. Rather, He reinforces that with many other things. But the naysayers do not understand the Gospel, nor the finished work of Christ, nor the meaning of genuine salvation.
They always point to someone else and say "Look, he claims to be a Christian, but he is not living like one". But who made you the judge of others? Is it not enough that you take heed to yourself? No genuine Christian makes sinful living a habitual lifestyle. Only the unsaved do so, and when they repent, they turn away from all their sins and idols.
Also "Once Saved Always Saved" is merely a catch phrase (not found in the Bible). The Bible has many other ways of presenting THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER. If you do not believe in that, then you do not really believe God, or Christ, or the Bible. You simply believe the doctrines of men.
One could present scores of verses to confirm this solid Bible truth -- that when God gives the gift of eternal life to someone, He does not take it back. Rather, He reinforces that with many other things. But the naysayers do not understand the Gospel, nor the finished work of Christ, nor the meaning of genuine salvation.
They always point to someone else and say "Look, he claims to be a Christian, but he is not living like one". But who made you the judge of others? Is it not enough that you take heed to yourself? No genuine Christian makes sinful living a habitual lifestyle. Only the unsaved do so, and when they repent, they turn away from all their sins and idols.
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You missed the "with the heart man believeth" part of Romans 1:9- 10. The heart of unsaved man is deceitful above all things, and as such is unable to come to true belief. God must first give a renewed heart for that to happen, but a renewed heart only comes out of salvation. If, as you say, we are "allowed" to believe", but then do not believe, then it wasn't grace at work. Grace means that everything, everything, pertaining to salvation was already achieved by Christ and is given freely in its totality to those for whom it was intended, with no preconditions nor prerequisites attached to it whatsoever. It is a fully and completely a free gift from an exceeding merciful and gracious God and loving Father; that is, should we be required to contribute anything for it, then that would mean Christ's offering was insufficient for its intended purpose - but we know that His offering was fully and completely perfect, and had achieved exactly what it was intended to achieve. Were that not so, then Christ couldn't/wouldn't be the Saviour, but we are clearly told by the Bible that He IS the Saviour.
[Rom 10:10 KJV]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[Heb 10:16-18 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Note that the above laws are the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death.
Regarding your comment of the book of John, the only condition in which the Holy Spirit comes to indwell anyone is with their becoming born again, in conjunction with their becoming saved, not before nor unless. However, I don't necessarily disagree with your comment that the Holy Spirit convicts, but it is from salvation, not to salvation, and is not to everyone, but only to those who had been chosen by God for salvation - those chosen by God to such from before the foundation of the world. As the verse that I posted to you previously regarding faith clearly states - our faith is indeed a work but one that only God can accomplish in us, and yet, that does not bring salvation, but it is only by Christ as Saviour.
[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[Rom 10:10 KJV]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[Heb 10:16-18 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Note that the above laws are the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death.
Regarding your comment of the book of John, the only condition in which the Holy Spirit comes to indwell anyone is with their becoming born again, in conjunction with their becoming saved, not before nor unless. However, I don't necessarily disagree with your comment that the Holy Spirit convicts, but it is from salvation, not to salvation, and is not to everyone, but only to those who had been chosen by God for salvation - those chosen by God to such from before the foundation of the world. As the verse that I posted to you previously regarding faith clearly states - our faith is indeed a work but one that only God can accomplish in us, and yet, that does not bring salvation, but it is only by Christ as Saviour.
[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
I agree. Absolutely stick with the bible. The only reason I brought up my friend is because I see this as the fruit of the OSAS doctrine. I've talked to numerous people who believe they can live in continual sin because at some point, they believed in Jesus.
As far as the bible telling us we cannot lose salvation, I don't see it. If you could share a verse and we could discuss it, that'd be great.
I see verses that tell us we can fall from grace. Here, God will cut off the Gentiles if they do not continue in His kindness.
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
As far as the bible telling us we cannot lose salvation, I don't see it. If you could share a verse and we could discuss it, that'd be great.
I see verses that tell us we can fall from grace. Here, God will cut off the Gentiles if they do not continue in His kindness.
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
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Who said anything about ignoring the command to be baptized in water? Just be sure you properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
General cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized. Now keep reading - ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
General cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized. Now keep reading - ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
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And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:40)
What does it mean to have "everlasting life"? Is it not the same as "eternal life"? And is that not a GIFT of God? For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23)
Now be very honest with yourself. If God give a GIFT -- a free gift -- then will He take it back? Does the Bible not say that the gifts and calling of God are "without repentance" (Rom 11:29, meaning that God does not change His mind once He gives a gift).
This is REINFORCED IN Romans chapter 5 several times.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement....
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Has any of this ever registered with you? Have you even seen these Scriptures, and if you have, have you seriously tried to understand what God is saying? In view of what I have posted here, you will need to abandon your false ideas about salvation, and believe what is in Scripture. That is what God expects.
What does it mean to have "everlasting life"? Is it not the same as "eternal life"? And is that not a GIFT of God? For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23)
Now be very honest with yourself. If God give a GIFT -- a free gift -- then will He take it back? Does the Bible not say that the gifts and calling of God are "without repentance" (Rom 11:29, meaning that God does not change His mind once He gives a gift).
This is REINFORCED IN Romans chapter 5 several times.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement....
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Has any of this ever registered with you? Have you even seen these Scriptures, and if you have, have you seriously tried to understand what God is saying? In view of what I have posted here, you will need to abandon your false ideas about salvation, and believe what is in Scripture. That is what God expects.
Ok. 10-15 Jesus explains why He speaks in parables. This is my current understanding of that passage paraphrased. Jesus is saying it wouldn't matter if He spoke plainly. Those who are seeking the truth will understand it and accept ( those who have more will be given.) Those who are not honestly seeking will not understand it or if they do understand it, they won't accept it (to those who have not what they do have will be taken away.)
Like here. The Pharisees knew it was about them but they didn't want to accept it and Jesus calls them blind guides.
10 And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
The apostles didn't understand this parable.
15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding?
Not sure of your point, still vague but thanks for challenging me.
Like here. The Pharisees knew it was about them but they didn't want to accept it and Jesus calls them blind guides.
10 And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
The apostles didn't understand this parable.
15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding?
Not sure of your point, still vague but thanks for challenging me.
I am very knowledgeable about God's word. I've looked into this greatly. Who would not want to believe OSAS? I am honest with myself. If there is anyone I don't want to fool, first of all it's myself. However, I am not going to blindly believe something that sounds too good to be true and something I can't find support for in scripture. I believe in eternal security but based on following Christ. If someone turns from Christ, then they will not be saved unless they turn back.
I agree with the scriptures you have posted. They tell us of eternal life possible in Christ. I'm counting on that. However, I don't see where it says we can't lose it in those passages. You listed Rom. 11. That was the verses I started with. It says the wild branches were grafted in and it's up to them if they get cut off or not.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Being cut off is losing salvation.
I agree with the scriptures you have posted. They tell us of eternal life possible in Christ. I'm counting on that. However, I don't see where it says we can't lose it in those passages. You listed Rom. 11. That was the verses I started with. It says the wild branches were grafted in and it's up to them if they get cut off or not.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Being cut off is losing salvation.
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You quoted the wrong passage. The passage teaches that the unconverted don't hear and don't understand and don't see and perceive
This is the opposite of those converted who do hear and understand and who do see and perceive. They also understand not only in their heads but in their hearts also.
This is the teaching of Romans 10...faith comes by hearing, Ephesians 2:8...saved by grace through faith, and exemplified in Acts 2:37...when they HEARD this, and were pricked in their HEARTS...
This is the opposite of those converted who do hear and understand and who do see and perceive. They also understand not only in their heads but in their hearts also.
This is the teaching of Romans 10...faith comes by hearing, Ephesians 2:8...saved by grace through faith, and exemplified in Acts 2:37...when they HEARD this, and were pricked in their HEARTS...