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G
Let me get to my point or we are just going to go around in circles on different pages.
Are Gods Judgments on sin (in any estimation of measurement) ever vindictive toward the sinner or are they corrective toward the sinner?
Maybe we have the same end thought anyway, we just each have a different vantage point.
Are Gods Judgments on sin (in any estimation of measurement) ever vindictive toward the sinner or are they corrective toward the sinner?
Maybe we have the same end thought anyway, we just each have a different vantage point.
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When it comes to our eternal destination, God's judgements are deserved. It's not my opinion that He is either vindictive or corrective in His final judgement on each individual.
Vindication suggests unwarranted or unreasonable anger, and I don't believe God's anger is ever unwarranted or unreasonable.
In the final judgement of each person, it's too late for correction. The person is either justified in God's eyes or s/he's not.
If you believe all sins are equally bad, we don't agree.
If your view is that a lustful thought and being physically raped are equally bad, we disagree.
If you think plotting to rob a bank is as bad as actually getting a bag of money by holding a gun to a teller's head, we disagree.
If you think punching someone in the face is as bad as shooting a person in the head, we disagree.
Sins are bad. Some, though, are worse than others.
I have asserted that there is sin gradation and supported it through Scripture. Those who are objecting aren't presenting arguments that explains the speck/plank(Matt 7) and utterly detestable/even more detestable(Ezek 8) to mean something other than what they (rather clearly, in my mind) state.
Vindication suggests unwarranted or unreasonable anger, and I don't believe God's anger is ever unwarranted or unreasonable.
In the final judgement of each person, it's too late for correction. The person is either justified in God's eyes or s/he's not.
If you believe all sins are equally bad, we don't agree.
If your view is that a lustful thought and being physically raped are equally bad, we disagree.
If you think plotting to rob a bank is as bad as actually getting a bag of money by holding a gun to a teller's head, we disagree.
If you think punching someone in the face is as bad as shooting a person in the head, we disagree.
Sins are bad. Some, though, are worse than others.
I have asserted that there is sin gradation and supported it through Scripture. Those who are objecting aren't presenting arguments that explains the speck/plank(Matt 7) and utterly detestable/even more detestable(Ezek 8) to mean something other than what they (rather clearly, in my mind) state.
E
Please reconcile your beliefs here with what Jesus said in Matt 5.28
Jesus said, I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Jesus said that is no difference between the lustful thought and the physical action.
PS: Rape is not a act of lust, it is a act of hate & rage
Jesus said, I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Jesus said that is no difference between the lustful thought and the physical action.
PS: Rape is not a act of lust, it is a act of hate & rage
Please reconcile your beliefs here with what Jesus said in Matt 5.28 I compared lustful thoughts to physical rape, not to adultery, which is what Matt 5:28 is about. Rape is forced while adultery is consensual.
Jesus said, I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I will still address your assertion.
It was apparently taught by Rabbis at that time that one's good intentions were reckoned to him/her as good deeds. Bad intentions, however, were only counted against the person if s/he acted out on them.
Jesus was clarifying, rather bluntly, then, that both physical adultery and lusting in one's heart count against the person. Both are sinful. Neither are acceptable.
Using your view/theory that the two acts are equally bad, divorce should be perfectly acceptable if one admits to having lusted. The physical act is no longer necessary for divorce to be acceptable, as the act of lust and the physical act of adultery are on a par.
If your literal view/theory is correct, then we should also be taking Matt 5:29 literally and be removing the parts of our body that are currently causing heart sin and could potentially lead to physical sin. Do you advocate and advise gouging out eyes? In Matt 5:30, Jesus warns that we should cutting off a hand if it is causing us to stumble. Do you advocate/recommend that?
It is not my view that the evil desire of the soul(lust) and the physical manifestation of that desire(adultery/fornication/etc.) are equally bad. That is not what Jesus was suggesting in Matt 5 and it does not make logical sense.
First, what was Jesus teaching?
Matt 5:28, to me, is a warning. Adultery is very bad. Furthermore, lusting is a form of adultery and is bad. Flee from lust. It would rather be better to lose an eye to stop one from heart lust than for the lusting to be birthed into the physical act.
Secondly, the idea that the two are equal is not logical.
-An adulterous heart affects only 1 person. In the case of physical adultery, there are 2 involved.
-The desire/goal/intent/aim of heart lust - physical intercourse(in the form of adultery) - has not taken place when there is no activity beyond lust in the heart.
-The usual potential consequences of the sexual act are either avoided or less likely to occur(e.g. - pregnancy, divorce to due infidelity, family break-ups).
Jesus said, I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I will still address your assertion.
It was apparently taught by Rabbis at that time that one's good intentions were reckoned to him/her as good deeds. Bad intentions, however, were only counted against the person if s/he acted out on them.
Jesus was clarifying, rather bluntly, then, that both physical adultery and lusting in one's heart count against the person. Both are sinful. Neither are acceptable.
Using your view/theory that the two acts are equally bad, divorce should be perfectly acceptable if one admits to having lusted. The physical act is no longer necessary for divorce to be acceptable, as the act of lust and the physical act of adultery are on a par.
If your literal view/theory is correct, then we should also be taking Matt 5:29 literally and be removing the parts of our body that are currently causing heart sin and could potentially lead to physical sin. Do you advocate and advise gouging out eyes? In Matt 5:30, Jesus warns that we should cutting off a hand if it is causing us to stumble. Do you advocate/recommend that?
It is not my view that the evil desire of the soul(lust) and the physical manifestation of that desire(adultery/fornication/etc.) are equally bad. That is not what Jesus was suggesting in Matt 5 and it does not make logical sense.
First, what was Jesus teaching?
Matt 5:28, to me, is a warning. Adultery is very bad. Furthermore, lusting is a form of adultery and is bad. Flee from lust. It would rather be better to lose an eye to stop one from heart lust than for the lusting to be birthed into the physical act.
Secondly, the idea that the two are equal is not logical.
-An adulterous heart affects only 1 person. In the case of physical adultery, there are 2 involved.
-The desire/goal/intent/aim of heart lust - physical intercourse(in the form of adultery) - has not taken place when there is no activity beyond lust in the heart.
-The usual potential consequences of the sexual act are either avoided or less likely to occur(e.g. - pregnancy, divorce to due infidelity, family break-ups).
Jesus came in grace and truth... john 1
In mercy and truth atonement is provided for sin...proverbs
Always truth with grace and mercy. Mercy and grace without truth become immorality.
If I came to church still in adultery or in some live in relationship, the brethren would be right in dis-fellowshippibg me. Scriptures teach that. Repentance is now.
I am a heterosexual male, I'm single and I very much enjoy intimacy with women. However..... as a single man, I am REQUIRED by God to keep my passions in check with the word of God. If not, He will judge me..Hebrews 13. In fact, in 1 cor 6,gal5,eph5, and rev 22, the bible says that those who are living in sexual immorality WILL NOT inherent the kingdom of God. That was written to the church.
Love them yes, sissy foot this topic absolutely not! Someone rightly said earlier, don't let it become sloppy agape.
They are going to hell,just like everyone else who lives in sexual sin, if they don't repent
In mercy and truth atonement is provided for sin...proverbs
Always truth with grace and mercy. Mercy and grace without truth become immorality.
If I came to church still in adultery or in some live in relationship, the brethren would be right in dis-fellowshippibg me. Scriptures teach that. Repentance is now.
I am a heterosexual male, I'm single and I very much enjoy intimacy with women. However..... as a single man, I am REQUIRED by God to keep my passions in check with the word of God. If not, He will judge me..Hebrews 13. In fact, in 1 cor 6,gal5,eph5, and rev 22, the bible says that those who are living in sexual immorality WILL NOT inherent the kingdom of God. That was written to the church.
Love them yes, sissy foot this topic absolutely not! Someone rightly said earlier, don't let it become sloppy agape.
They are going to hell,just like everyone else who lives in sexual sin, if they don't repent
E
Civility is a 2 way street, please refrain from ever calling me "boy" again and assuming someone is emotional when they are not.
I know this is a really hard question to answer for believers like you, nobody is exploiting you personally per-se.
What we are exploiting is your lack of true Revelation knowledge that the God of the universe loves you and wants to have intimate loving relationship with you. He does not want you to keep your passions in check because of a stony heart of required obligation or else you will suffer his wrath and judgement. He wants you to keep your passions in check out of love for what he did for you by sending his son to die for you, was buried and then rose again and now sits at the right hand of Father.
Religion says I do for me because if I don't I will pay the price...Relationship says I do for others in love based on the Love he has for me.
When you ever get this, you will begin to walk in all the fullness God has for you.
I know this is a really hard question to answer for believers like you, nobody is exploiting you personally per-se.
What we are exploiting is your lack of true Revelation knowledge that the God of the universe loves you and wants to have intimate loving relationship with you. He does not want you to keep your passions in check because of a stony heart of required obligation or else you will suffer his wrath and judgement. He wants you to keep your passions in check out of love for what he did for you by sending his son to die for you, was buried and then rose again and now sits at the right hand of Father.
Religion says I do for me because if I don't I will pay the price...Relationship says I do for others in love based on the Love he has for me.
When you ever get this, you will begin to walk in all the fullness God has for you.
You are self righteously judging my thinking and heart, so back off! You Are right on your survey of being motivated by His love. But your tone and ctiticism cripples your effectiveness.
Some, the bible says that we save by the skin in their teeth and some are moved by His love. Paul said, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Also, this group is the actual one that God gives over to their passions in Romans 1.
The sin of homosexuality has a very severe bond that goes with it. It's very difficult to break free from. One may need the fear of the Lord to really motivate them.
So many Christians just want to see the love and patience of God and not His judgment that we all come to someday and can just give someone a comfortable ride to hell. All the 5 while making us feel as though we did our part.
It's both, but there's a balance.
Some, the bible says that we save by the skin in their teeth and some are moved by His love. Paul said, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Also, this group is the actual one that God gives over to their passions in Romans 1.
The sin of homosexuality has a very severe bond that goes with it. It's very difficult to break free from. One may need the fear of the Lord to really motivate them.
So many Christians just want to see the love and patience of God and not His judgment that we all come to someday and can just give someone a comfortable ride to hell. All the 5 while making us feel as though we did our part.
It's both, but there's a balance.
While we should be sharing the gospel with sinners, ALL sinners, inside and outside our church buildings, this OP really sets up the same myth that the LGBTQ movement has successfully converted the political establishment to - in Canada at least. The laws are now totally in favour of gays and against Christians and their beliefs and practices.
The OP says he is in Canada - has he heard the about the latest persecution BY the gay movement and their supporters?
In Alberta, there are private Christian schools which the "Ministry of Love" (really the ministry of hate!) or in actual fact, the Ministry of Education, is threatening to withhold funding if they do not have transgendered bathrooms and alllow gay-straight alliance clubs or straight-queer clubs for support of gays in the school. Two schools are being threatened right now!
The head of the board of Trustees of these schools, which are run by Baptists is defying the ministry. And the media has now jumped on him as "bigoted" and "law-breaking" and demanding that not only should funding, (which is based on following the Alberta curriculum) but that the two schools should be closed permanently.
So is it Christians who are now leading society and showing people how to care for those who are homosexual, or is it gays themselves, with their straight chronies who are showing hate, by not allowing Christians to practice their faith?
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Romans 12:2
While we do need to show love, we also need to stop compromising with the world! It is not God's plan anywhere in the world to normalize perverted sexual behaviour. And the Holy Spirit can change hearts and lives, I have seen it done! But, the gay movement fights "conversion" away from this downward lifestyle, and says conclusively that gays are born that way, so they can't change. Well, unless you are transgendered, and then you can change - radically and painfully!
No, the tables have turned, and Christians are no longer the ones persecuting gays. Instead, it is the gays persecuting Christians! And that has HUGE implications for the future of our countries!
"Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" 2 Tim. 3:12
L
[FONT="]16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5
more than a baker's dozen of extremely serious sins
I can't find a list of not serious sins....not even in the KJV
I have to conclude, God is pretty serious with all sins[/FONT]