How can we uphold the law through faith? Romans 3:31

TMS · Oct 15, 2021

i agree
the law will condemn those that are not in Christs saving hands, But the law will not have any condemnation on those that give there guilt to Him. The law does not become invalid, or made void because Jesus died on the cross.
The price for transgressing the law was paid in full.
This does not mean the law is made void, it means that we are able to escape the guilt of the law. The law is still valid and we should keep it because we love Jesus and do not want to cause Him any more pain.

1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

And on the point of Heb 8 "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: ", This is not referring to different laws as Davidtree stated...... "It is not the law under Moses - it is the Law of Christ that is written on our hearts."
This was a quote from the old testament .
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus perfectly obeyed the Ten commandments, because this is true righteousness, We can not attain that righteousness so we need to have faith in What Jesus has done for us. Do we then make void the law? God forbid.

TMS · Oct 15, 2021

DavidTree said:

We can do nothing to earn salvation, we can never obey the law good enough to be righteous, and that's why Jesus came to perfectly obey (lamb without spot) so that His righteousness can be given to us as a gift. So our works do not count, but do we sin because we are saved by grace through faith? Do we murder and steel because we have faith in Christs righteousness? The law is still valid to help us know what is sin.
The law is the perfect standard and Christ is the perfect example of obeying it. We do not obey to be saved but because we are as you said above created in Christ for good works.
We serve God because we love Him, and obey the law because He loves us.
The law is valid today. God gave the Ten commandments.

gb9 · Oct 15, 2021

TMS said:

the Ten Commandments were given to Israel at Sinai, Israel only.

nine of the ten were repeated for Christ followers.

Sabbath was not.

Sabbath keeping is not a requirement for Christ followers.

DavidTree · Oct 15, 2021

gb9 said:

Can you find the True Sabbath Rest in this verse?

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!"

seed_time_harvest · Oct 15, 2021

Blik said:

How can Faith uphold the law.

The law Is GODs perfect standard of righteousness and because of the weakness of the flesh man cannot keep GODs law perfectly,when I say flesh In this case,I’m mainly talking about the brain/mind.

.JESUS on the sermon on the mount was letting those people know that It’s not what you’re doing on the outside that might allow a person to pretend, but It’s the Inside where the real truth Is,

Man couldn't accompish perfect righteousness In his own strength.He needed GODs help.

GOD the FATHER made a way through JESUS.

JESUS took all the punishment that was due to those breaking GODs perfect standard of righteousness (the law) and made a way for man and that was to “Believe“ In HIS WORD who came to earth In the flesh.

So then although man could never have been perfect the way that GOD would accept,GOD looked beyond our Faults and saw our need and had mercy on us and gave/gives grace to all those who would/will “Believe” In HIS WORD.

justbyfaith · Oct 15, 2021

Blik said:

I don't know what this has to do with the OP, but what an interesting post. I also made the same vow to the Lord, but it was because I learned English as a baby in a home that used language that would make a sailor blush. Those words seemed to pop out of nowhere is I ever felt anger. I promised to keep to only food from animals who ate no garbage is God would please help me. We are told not to make vows, I am so sorry I did this, but scripture says a vow is a vow and once made, don't break it.

It wasn't a vow per se...just a commitment.

justbyfaith · Oct 15, 2021

@Pilgrimshope,

You really are long-winded. I did not finish reading your second post; I lost interest in what you were writing halfway through.

To all that you have said I will only say this.

The law is written on the hearts and minds of those who are under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

And, if we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it, we will be blessed in what we do (James 1:22-25).

If anyone turns his ear away from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).

Isa 8:20, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

TMS · Oct 15, 2021

gb9 said:

This is not about the Sabbath,, But explain why God gave the Sabbath to Adam and Eve at creation, and how the Sabbath was made for man? How, and when was the Sabbath made void?
Gen 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Mar_2:27,28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
I say ten out of ten were given to Christs followers.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

rayzor · Oct 15, 2021

justbyfaith said:

he is and is not the lawless one family replaces system = rules laws ect Grace replaces judgement = penalty of sin

gb9 · Oct 15, 2021

TMS said:

This is not about the Sabbath,, But explain why God gave the Sabbath to Adam and Eve at creation, and how the Sabbath was made for man? How, and when was the Sabbath made void?
Gen 2:2,3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Mar_2:27,28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
I say ten out of ten were given to Christs followers.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jesus said this to a crowd of Jewish men, born under the Law, born under the Command to keep the Sabbath.

gentiles were and are not under the Law.

rayzor · Oct 15, 2021

gb9 said:

yes they where and are ,,,not the torah that's the details and now of course the new testament.but they still suffer from the bite of the forbiden fruit.Knowing good from evil...It is written he that died without the law will be judge without the law,,, there conciseness being their guide a law onto itself.

BroTan · Oct 15, 2021

TMS said:

Also let's keep in mind that we keep the Laws (Commandment) of God because sin is in the world. Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
Which mean we can do as we please when we please! Some people must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But people have convince themselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live.
Also Paul says in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin!

rayzor · Oct 15, 2021

BroTan said:

law would still be imputed how? natural law if you throw a rock above your head you mean to tell me it would not have hit them in the head?,,,could they hit each other with rocks and not be hurt? maybe.could they learn yes.Eve look the fruit over before eating,,,and how did they know what die ment? or did they?

justbyfaith · Oct 15, 2021

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:5, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law as concerning condemnation (Romans 7:6). See also Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19, Galatians 5:18.

TMS · Oct 15, 2021

BroTan said:

Yes, perfect laws from our perfect Lord. Laws of love that would free the world of sinful acts if they all obeyed but like you said people think there isn't any laws.
1 Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers.......

The commandments were given because of transgression, we needed a code to understand what sin is, And by Gods Spirit it can be again written on our hearts.

TMS · Oct 15, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Yes we are dead to the law concerning condemnation.

But the question debated is ......

Can we disobey the law because we are free from it's condemnation?

TMS · Oct 16, 2021

rayzor said:

Sin separates us from God.
God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is “alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18.” Christ says, “All they that hate Me love death Pro 8:36.”
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Take away the laws that define sin and the earth will be lawless and sin will run freely.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity (violation of law, transgression of the law.... )shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

justbyfaith · Oct 16, 2021

TMS said:

The Holy Spirit dwelling within us motivates us to be obedient to God's word...and that includes the law.

justbyfaith · Oct 16, 2021

justbyfaith said:

See Matthew 5:17-20.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 16, 2021

justbyfaith said:

yes it’s apparent you aren’t reading what I’m writing which makes a discussion hard

this is the law of light and it’s testimony

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law is not Christs law Christ is the light not moses

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40, 45-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words had they believed Moses they wouldn’t have had an issue with understanding the law of Moses was temporary until Christ came to speak Gods word

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

had they believed what Moses said of the messiah they would have understood what Peter was saying

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

had they understood this

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they would have understood this

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but instead the y found themselves here

“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s sad when people can’t understand that the law of Moses isn’t the gospel of the kingdom but everyone has thier own right to think what they do.

It’s why Christians get confused and don’t know how to treat other Christians Moses taught his people one thing Christ taught Gods children another.

The new covenant isn’t what was given to Moses. That’s the result of mans sin the new covenant is the result of Gods forgiveness.

I think honestly people who argue for the law have never read or studied the law there is no confusing the law of
Moses with the gospel it’s contrary in every way

How can we uphold the law through faith? Romans 3:31

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