How do Church Leaders Enforce.....

[p_rehbein]

How do Church Leaders enforce the teachings of their Church? Or can they? Or should they?

I do not remember any Scriptures off hand that address this issue, so if anyone has one or more, please post them. Thanks in advance.

I see every day people who are professed Christians and attend their Church regularly, and some even hold positions of Leadership in their Church.....and these people exhibit life styles in direct contrast to what their Church teaches.

How can a Pastor enforce what he preaches, as he/she is the spiritual leader of the Congregation? How could the Deacons/Elders do this? Or do they just not bother?

 

[arthurfleminger]

What authority do church leaders have to enforce church teachings? These leaders can't even agree with each other as to Biblical teachings. That's why there are 40,000 denominations of Christians in this country. And each denomination doesn't agree with the others, that's why they formed their own. Why should anyone listen to these so called 'church leaders' when they can't even listen to each other? Just asking.

 

[JohnDB]

Revoke membership...
Catholics call it excommunicate...

Basically it's removing their "rights and privileges" a full member would have...whether those rights are exercised or not.

And it's usually a bit of a mess when this happens...

I know that in times past when a church did this to a woman who had an affair and then got a divorce and revoked her membership.

But the part they chose to ignore was the husband's behavior of pornography addiction and absolute self absorbed behavior. They couldn't prove he was an actual adulterer...so they got her instead who admitted it.

Both were nuts IMHO.

Both did leave eventually...he hung around for a while...but she and the kids were kicked out.

 

[crossnote]

“If your brother sins against you, go and rebuke him in private. If he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he won’t listen, take one or two others with you, so that by the testimony of two or three witnesses every fact may be established. If he doesn’t pay attention to them, tell the church. If he doesn’t pay attention even to the church, let him be like a Gentile and a tax collector to you. Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you, if two of you on earth agree about any matter that you pray for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there among them.”
(Mat 18:15-20)

 

[wattie]

For resolving disputes there is the model in Matthew 18 where two or three gather to address sin issues in the church setting as a local body.

This though would be led by the leadership in said church under Jesus' headship.

If said leadership aren't following scripture, yeah then the congregation would need to pull out or report their leader to someone. If it's an independent church.. itll all need to be done in house tho

 

[Dino246]

What authority do church leaders have to enforce church teachings? These leaders can't even agree with each other as to Biblical teachings. That's why there are 40,000 denominations of Christians in this country. And each denomination doesn't agree with the others, that's why they formed their own. Why should anyone listen to these so called 'church leaders' when they can't even listen to each other? Just asking.

The "40,000 denominations" is a lie perpetrated by the Catholics.

 

[Diakonos]

the short answer:
exhort, refute, dissociate, pray

 

[p_rehbein]

Both did leave eventually...he hung around for a while...but she and the kids were kicked out.

Is there a level of wrong doing/living that must be met in order to "kick them out?"

 

[p_rehbein]

“If your brother sins against you, go and rebuke him in private. If he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he won’t listen, take one or two others with you, so that by the testimony of two or three witnesses every fact may be established.

What if 80 percent of the congregation is doing wrong? What if NONE of the congregation is following what is being taught?

 

[p_rehbein]

If said leadership aren't following scripture, yeah then the congregation would need to pull out or report their leader to someone. If it's an independent church.. itll all need to be done in house tho

What if the Pastor and Leadership AND the congregation are not following what the Pastor and Leadership are teaching? How to resolve that?

 

[Diakonos]

What if the Pastor and Leadership AND the congregation are not following what the Pastor and Leadership are teaching? How to resolve that?

That is the outcome of a congregation who, as a whole, refuses to repent.
Jesus "removes the lampstand" from such a congregation (Rev 2:5)

Is there a level of wrong doing/living that must be met in order to "kick them out?"

Yes... When they cause divisions (Rom 16:17), refuse to repent of an offense against another believer in the fellowship (Matt 18:17), and rebellious deceivers who take advantage of the flock -a false shepherd- (Tit 2:10-11).
In extreme cases like these, you have to cut off the infectious member to preserve the health of the whole body (God executed Ananias and his wife for lying to the congregation about church finances- Acts 5:1-12). (not suggesting that we execute anyone...life and death belong to God...but I am sharing that to show how serious God takes this).

“If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” (2 Thes 3:14–15)​

“A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.” (Gal 5:9, 1 Cor 5:6)​

 

[JaumeJ]

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

We come to the Messiah. Repented a work is begun in each of us by God, Himself.

We will be made perfect and holy, BY OUR FATHER.

Meanshile, wo strive to be just like Jesus Yeshua, again and however, the work being done is by our Maker.

So we behave, though we may slip up on the way. He knows our weakensses and He knows the Cure.

We are saved by grace, so we cannot help God, we do try to obey Him.

 

[arthurfleminger]

The "40,000 denominations" is a lie perpetrated by the Catholics.

Actually there are tens of thousands of Christian denominations in the USA. Here is an estimate from a non-Catholic source: how many denominations of christianity are there in the united states | National Association of Christian Ministers (nacministers.org)

And it is true that these denominations don't agree with each other in their practices or interpretation of scripture. The number of denominations is easily searchable on line.

So, why do you think tens of thousands of denominations is a lie when it's clearly the truth?

 

[JohnDB]

Is there a level of wrong doing/living that must be met in order to "kick them out?"

Yep,
Publicly going against clearly stated doctrine...

The woman in the story I told was publicly promoting her adulterous relationship before she was divorced or even separated.
She gave the reasons she engaged in the affair (which of course was all her husband's fault) but the man she was having the relationship with was also married.

Now if she had done this "in secret" or had hidden the timing of her actions and eventually came out publicly she probably would have gotten away with it all and had not needed to suffer a reaction from the church.

But she made it all public.

Granted I could understand her reasons for divorcing her husband...he was a drunk, unapologetically viewed pornography magazines (had a subscription to several) and was obnoxious...she worked for a Christian organization charity and traveled often. (Domestically)

She knew what she was doing was biblically wrong...but she felt so much better by having a relationship with someone who behaved appropriately for a change she couldn't keep her mouth shut about it. Which is what forced the church to act.

(And my church is absolutely horrible when dealing with the membership in such a fashion...they have failed EVERY time to do it correctly and appropriately...my whine about it)

You can't publicly promote sin in a conservative church. That includes the public consumption of Alcoholic beverages in my church...
Privately, shared many a bottle of wine and beer with classmates and friends. But we don't get drunk or discuss drinking at church around any senior or junior staff members.

I did have an accident once...I brought a Savarin (yeast risen cake soaked in a rum/sugar syrup) to Sunday School class.... everyone loved the fresh fruit and fillings in the cake and ate it with relish...and I was happy until I ate a piece myself and tasted the rum. And then the lightbulb turned on so to speak. Everyone left class smelling like rum that day. I just ducked and ran after class was over. I know that others smelled it on my classmates...

Nobody said anything but the rumors were still flying..."Are they pouring shots?"

 

[JohnDB]

What if the Pastor and Leadership AND the congregation are not following what the Pastor and Leadership are teaching? How to resolve that?

My church is an example of this.
My church teaches and preaches Calvinism... however the Pastoral staff and most of the congregation doesn't believe in it. There's just a few elders that do...
So where we groan when it comes up...we ignore it and move on.

 

[Hungry]

What if the Pastor and Leadership AND the congregation are not following what the Pastor and Leadership are teaching? How to resolve that?

Find whatever remnants of actual believers exist there. Hold a meeting and all leave that church. Send a message to the entire congregation stating the Biblical reasons for leaving and welcome any who desires to defect on your terms.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Find whatever remnants of actual believers exist there. Hold a meeting and all leave that church. Send a message to the entire congregation stating the Biblical reasons for leaving and welcome any who desires to defect on your terms.

That's exactly the reason that there are between 30,000 and 40,000 Christian denominations in the USA. Each denomination believes something different from the others. Sometimes the differences are minor and sometimes major. Nobody can agree on the interpretation of Biblical scripture. So, why can't we believe in the same religious tenets or interpret scripture in sync with each other?

 

[p_rehbein]

My church is an example of this.
My church teaches and preaches Calvinism... however the Pastoral staff and most of the congregation doesn't believe in it. There's just a few elders that do...
So where we groan when it comes up...we ignore it and move on.

Isn't this really sad though? What happens when visitors are in the congregation? Sorry you have to suffer such when you (the congregation) are suppose to be worshiping and praising God...........

 

[Mission21]

Some people like to..quote verses (it is not difficult..)
- Matthew 18:15-17, etc..
---
Does anyone have the experience..?
- got involved with this issue (Matthew 18:15-17)..in the churches?
- for many years?
---
It can be very messy..getting into the gossip, church conflict, etc..
----
I was involved in one church where this issue happened.
- The church went through..arguing, fighting, etc..
- It had terrible/negative impact on everyone.
- Eventually, the church closed..
---
More 'spiritual discernment & wisdom' are needed..
- When you deal with this problem/issue in the church.

 

[JohnDB]

Isn't this really sad though? What happens when visitors are in the congregation? Sorry you have to suffer such when you (the congregation) are suppose to be worshiping and praising God...........

Church fellowship isn't exactly about what the pastor preaches though...
Sure we expect him to get close to what we believe...but I don't expect the pastor to preach exactly what I believe...nor what anyone else does either that has studied extensively.

I know that I'm rather unique in that...but again...it's about those personal connections you form inside of a church.

When you make friends in a church that is what it's all about...sure everyone has opinions but it's the friendships that last a lifetime...I remember people that I went to church with when I was a little kid...and as a teenager...and in college...and as an adult. And those I'm friends with now. (I'm itenerant by nature)

And because of those relationships I know that they aren't Calvinists. It isn't exactly like most people today even know what that means except for the argumentative people on the forum.

So long as the pastor does his job in a reasonable fashion I really don't care. I'm not there to preach or to do his job....I'm there to make friends and take part in ministry opportunities.
Building even stronger relationships by working together on various projects. And those projects are never about shouting in favor of TULIP.

It's usually missionary projects domestically and abroad...orphans and widows and unwed mothers and abroad it's English camps or construction of buildings.

That's what we do. That's why I'm there. Sure I get reminded of lessons I've learned from the scriptures...and that's important to not forget about...but I'm there to meet people and form relationships.