How do preachers or teachers explain this?

[DavidLamb]

You said that you believe in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. I said that there is a difference between merely believing in them and bearing witness to them. We who know the one true God bear witness to them.


So I testify to you that the things you mentioned, the 12-year-old girl whom the Lord raised from the dead, the parting of the Red Sea, and even the flood in Noah’s time that caused people throughout the whole world to perish, we see these things still happening in the present.


I don’t know whether you will believe me. We also still see the Lord feeding the multitude, all the way to the point when the disciples left Him in John 6:66.


From your answer, however, it seems that you no longer see these things happening. Am I correct?

Where do we see God flooding the whole world today? There is no flood where I am, or anywhere in the UK. Quite the opposite in fact. Most of the UK has restrictions on water usage because of the heat and drought. And although I believe all our food comes ultimately from God, where is Jesus still taking a lad's loaves and fish and feeding people with them? The Lord is still performing miracles. Every time a sinner is saved, that is because He has miraculously caused that person to be born again.

 

[DavidLamb]

That is why I am asking where in the Old Testament we can read about the Holy Spirit, if He is the one who gives inspiration for writing the words of God.

We read about the Holy Spirit in various places in the Old Testament. Just a few examples:

NKJVGen 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Psa 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: "Where is He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,

 

[Dino246]

As my testimony concerning Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35:
When the Lord Jesus said, “Destroy this temple” (John 2:19), the Jews responded that it had taken 46 years to build the temple, yet He said He would raise it up in just three days (John 2:20).
At this point, the Lord had only just begun His ministry.
As the days went by, the Jews surely came to understand that the Lord was speaking in parables.
Yet they still did not believe Him, even after more than two years had passed.
Therefore, when the Lord was already hanging on the cross, they continued to mock Him because of what He had said.
MATTHEW 27:40
40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

If the Jews in those days who did not believe that the Lord was speaking in parables were simply left to their belief that the Lord was speaking literally and plainly.
Then even people today who refuse to believe that the Lord speaks in parables will likewise be left in their belief.

So I will not force you either. I will simply leave you to your belief that the one who drinks, eats, and marries is not speaking in a parable.

The problem is not one of mere belief. Rather, you are objectively wrong. Jesus was not speaking in parables in this passage; He employed a metaphor. They are not the same thing.

Refusing your position that Jesus always speaks in parables does not leave us believing that Jesus never speaks in parables. That's a false dichotomy. Jesus sometimes speaks in parables, and sometimes doesn't.

 

[Dino246]

You said that you believe in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. I said that there is a difference between merely believing in them and bearing witness to them. We who know the one true God bear witness to them.


So I testify to you that the things you mentioned, the 12-year-old girl whom the Lord raised from the dead, the parting of the Red Sea, and even the flood in Noah’s time that caused people throughout the whole world to perish, we see these things still happening in the present.


I don’t know whether you will believe me. We also still see the Lord feeding the multitude, all the way to the point when the disciples left Him in John 6:66.


From your answer, however, it seems that you no longer see these things happening. Am I correct?

You seem to live in a fantasy world of your own invention. These things are one-time events and are not still happening in the real world.

Similar things may be happening, and we may see similarities and parallels, but those particular events? Nope. One-and-done.

 

[Godsgood]

Where do we see God flooding the whole world today? There is no flood where I am, or anywhere in the UK. Quite the opposite in fact. Most of the UK has restrictions on water usage because of the heat and drought. And although I believe all our food comes ultimately from God, where is Jesus still taking a lad's loaves and fish and feeding people with them? The Lord is still performing miracles. Every time a sinner is saved, that is because He has miraculously caused that person to be born again.

We who know the one true God can see that the things that happened in the past continue to happen today (Ecclesiastes 1:9). That is why we testify to people that the words of God will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).


We also see this in Matthew 16:13–17, where the Lord Jesus preached to the people, and they listened to His preaching. But when He asked His disciples what people were saying about Him, they answered according to how the people understood and perceived Him.


We can see the same thing happening in our time today. That is why we have strong confidence in testifying to the truth of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.

 

[Godsgood]

You seem to live in a fantasy world of your own invention. These things are one-time events and are not still happening in the real world.

Similar things may be happening, and we may see similarities and parallels, but those particular events? Nope. One-and-done.

People who do not know the one true God will never be able to see these things, no matter what they do, because they have not been given eyes by God to see. Only those who know the one true God are able to see and testify to the truth of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.
MATTHEW 13:10-13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

 

[Godsgood]

We read about the Holy Spirit in various places in the Old Testament. Just a few examples:

NKJVGen 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Psa 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: "Where is He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,

Isn’t this referring to God the Father Himself, since He is a Spirit God and not the Holy Spirit?

 

[Godsgood]

No, I don't agree. The Bible is complete. We read:

NKJV 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

How could the man of God be complete and , thoroughly equipped for every good work if the Scriptures themselves were not yet complete?

Without God’s revelation of the truth through His words, the written Holy Scriptures would not yet be the complete truth. How, then, could it be considered complete?

 

[DavidLamb]

We who know the one true God can see that the things that happened in the past continue to happen today (Ecclesiastes 1:9). That is why we testify to people that the words of God will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).


We also see this in Matthew 16:13–17, where the Lord Jesus preached to the people, and they listened to His preaching. But when He asked His disciples what people were saying about Him, they answered according to how the people understood and perceived Him.


We can see the same thing happening in our time today. That is why we have strong confidence in testifying to the truth of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.

I fully believe that God's word will never pass away. That doesn't mean that everything we read in God's word about things He did in the past must still be happening today. Genesis 3 tells us that God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, for example. Once He had cast them out, He didn't carry on doing it. Matthew tells us that God sent an angel to Joseph in Egypt to tell him to return to Israel:

NKJV Mat 2:19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Mat 2:20 saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child's life are dead."

God isn't sending an angel to Joseph in Egypt now.

It is God's word that He says will never pass away, not His actions.

 

[DavidLamb]

Isn’t this referring to God the Father Himself, since He is a Spirit God and not the Holy Spirit?

But it says "the Spirit of God", not the Spirit God. I agree, of course, that God is Spirit.

 

[Dino246]

People who do not know the one true God will never be able to see these things, no matter what they do, because they have not been given eyes by God to see. Only those who know the one true God are able to see and testify to the truth of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.
MATTHEW 13:10-13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Quoting Scripture in an attempt to bolster your opinion about others is misusing it. Your opinion about me is misguided.

 

[DavidLamb]

Without God’s revelation of the truth through His words, the written Holy Scriptures would not yet be the complete truth. How, then, could it be considered complete?

The written word of God is complete. We need God's Holy Spirit to understand it, so it is our understanding (by ourselves) that is incomplete, not God's word.

 

[Dino246]

Without God’s revelation of the truth through His words, the written Holy Scriptures would not yet be the complete truth. How, then, could it be considered complete?

It's complete because God is not adding anything more to it. He isn't issuing a "revised Scriptures, v. 2.0".

It's complete because it contains everything humans need to bring them to the Saviour Jesus Christ.

It's complete because even if the Holy Spirit gave no additional insight or revelation, the man of God may still be fully equipped.

It's only incomplete for people who think they need special "extra revelation" to mangle its meaning and exalt themselves over others who know and understand it far better.

 

[Dino246]

We who know the one true God can see that the things that happened in the past continue to happen today (Ecclesiastes 1:9). That is why we testify to people that the words of God will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).


We also see this in Matthew 16:13–17, where the Lord Jesus preached to the people, and they listened to His preaching. But when He asked His disciples what people were saying about Him, they answered according to how the people understood and perceived Him.


We can see the same thing happening in our time today. That is why we have strong confidence in testifying to the truth of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.

You have not provided anything evidentiary. Instead, you have treated your claim as the evidence; that is circular reasoning.

You have strong confidence in your misunderstanding of Ecclesiastes 1:9.

 

[Godsgood]

The written word of God is complete. We need God's Holy Spirit to understand it, so it is our understanding (by ourselves) that is incomplete, not God's word.

If you believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is complete and sufficient to establish the truth, then how would you share with us what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground?
JOHN 8:8
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

However, we who have come to know the one true God have been granted by the Lord to understand what He was writing on the ground. And it was revealed to us that it had something to do with salvation.

 

[Godsgood]

If you believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is complete and sufficient to establish the truth, then how would you share with us what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground?
JOHN 8:8
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

However, we who have come to know the one true God have been granted by the Lord to understand what He was writing on the ground. And it was revealed to us that it had something to do with salvation.

DavidLamb said:
The written word of God is complete. We need God's Holy Spirit to understand it, so it is our understanding (by ourselves) that is incomplete, not God's word.

What I really mean here is this:

If, in your belief, what is written in the Holy Scriptures is already complete or sufficient to establish something as truth, then it would seem that you no longer need to know what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground.
JOHN 8:8
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

But we, who have come to know the one true God, asked Him what He wrote on the ground.
And when He revealed it to us, we realized that it was extremely important to know, because it is connected to salvation.

 

[Godsgood]

I fully believe that God's word will never pass away. That doesn't mean that everything we read in God's word about things He did in the past must still be happening today. Genesis 3 tells us that God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, for example. Once He had cast them out, He didn't carry on doing it. Matthew tells us that God sent an angel to Joseph in Egypt to tell him to return to Israel:

NKJV Mat 2:19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Mat 2:20 saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child's life are dead."

God isn't sending an angel to Joseph in Egypt now.

It is God's word that He says will never pass away, not His actions.

We who have come to know the one true God can still clearly see, even in our time, the same event that happened with Joseph and the Virgin Mary when they knocked on every door, seeking a place where Jesus could be born, yet no one welcomed them in.
Nothing has changed (Ecclesiastes 1:9).
That is why the word of God never passes away (Matthew 24:35).

If you cannot see this, then truly, there are people who will not be able to see the true blessing that God has bestowed.
MATTHEW 13:11
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It is not enough to simply believe. It must be proven and testified to as truth.

 

[DavidLamb]

If you believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is complete and sufficient to establish the truth, then how would you share with us what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground?
JOHN 8:8
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

However, we who have come to know the one true God have been granted by the Lord to understand what He was writing on the ground. And it was revealed to us that it had something to do with salvation.

We are not told what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground. If God had wanted us to know, He would have caused it to be written in the Bible. There is a great deal in the Bible about salvation, so even if you are correct, and He wrote something to do with salvation on the ground, knowing what He wrote would not give us more information about our great salvation.

 

[DavidLamb]

We who have come to know the one true God can still clearly see, even in our time, the same event that happened with Joseph and the Virgin Mary when they knocked on every door, seeking a place where Jesus could be born, yet no one welcomed them in.
Nothing has changed (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

Where are we told that Joseph and Mary knocked on every door seeking a place where Jesus could be born? All we are told concerning where He was born is this:

NKJV Luk 2:6 So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered.
Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

That is why the word of God never passes away (Matthew 24:35).

Yes, I agree that His word never passes away. But that doesn't mean that all the events described in God's word are still happening today, Mary and Joseph are not still laying the baby Jesus in a manger in Bethlehem. Jesus is not still being wrapped in swaddling cloths. There is no census being taken by the Romans in Judea today, as their was when Jesus was born.

If you cannot see this, then truly, there are people who will not be able to see the true blessing that God has bestowed.
MATTHEW 13:11
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It is not enough to simply believe. It must be proven and testified to as truth.

I agree that we are to believe God's truth as revealed in His word.

 

[Dino246]

If you believe that everything written in the Holy Bible is complete and sufficient to establish the truth, then how would you share with us what the Lord Jesus wrote on the ground?
JOHN 8:8
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

However, we who have come to know the one true God have been granted by the Lord to understand what He was writing on the ground. And it was revealed to us that it had something to do with salvation.

Yet you are unable to share it. If you actually knew what Jesus wrote on the ground, and did not seek to exalt yourself above others, you would simply share it.