How do preachers or teachers explain this?

[DavidLamb]

I’d really like to join this conversation, but I have to admit I’m a bit lost. I’m not entirely sure what the original question was.

If you mean the question posed by the OP, It was the matter of what Christ meant when He said that His followers would do greater works than those He was doing (John 14:12).

If you meant the particular matter I am involved in discussing with Godsgood, He claims that because the Bible says that God's words will never pass away, that must mean (according to him) that all the events recorded in the Bible must still be happening today.

I hope that helps.

 

[OMC]

If you meant the particular matter I am involved in discussing with Godsgood, He claims that because the Bible says that God's words will never pass away, that must mean (according to him) that all the events recorded in the Bible must still be happening today

Godsgood claim collapses the plain meaning of Jesus’ words. When Jesus says, “My words will not pass away” (Matt 24:35), He is speaking about the enduring authority and truthfulness of His teaching—not that the events described in Scripture continue happening forever. Scripture itself proves this: the Flood happened once (Gen 7), the Exodus happened once (Exod 12–14), the crucifixion happened once (Heb 9:26–28). These events do not “continue” simply because God’s words endure. God’s words remain true, but the historical events they describe are completed. The permanence of God’s words refers to their unchanging truth, not the perpetual repetition of the events they record. Hope that helps.

 

[DavidLamb]

Godsgood claim collapses the plain meaning of Jesus’ words. When Jesus says, “My words will not pass away” (Matt 24:35), He is speaking about the enduring authority and truthfulness of His teaching—not that the events described in Scripture continue happening forever. Scripture itself proves this: the Flood happened once (Gen 7), the Exodus happened once (Exod 12–14), the crucifixion happened once (Heb 9:26–28). These events do not “continue” simply because God’s words endure. God’s words remain true, but the historical events they describe are completed. The permanence of God’s words refers to their unchanging truth, not the perpetual repetition of the events they record. Hope that helps.

Thanks. You put the matter much more clearly than I did.

 

[OMC]

If you mean the question posed by the OP, It was the matter of what Christ meant when He said that His followers would do greater works than those He was doing (John 14:12)

The “greater works” of John 14:12 are not greater miracles but the greater mission that Christ’s followers would carry out after His ascension. That is the heart of the matter that OP was wrestling with, and it’s exactly what the text itself demands once you follow the logic of Jesus’ statement. Let me know if you need more clarity on this.

 

[DavidLamb]

The “greater works” of John 14:12 are not greater miracles but the greater mission that Christ’s followers would carry out after His ascension. That is the heart of the matter that OP was wrestling with, and it’s exactly what the text itself demands once you follow the logic of Jesus’ statement. Let me know if you need more clarity on this.

I agree. Thanks.

 

[Godsgood]

Of course they weren't. But it wasn't a matter of literal versus non-literal. The Scribes and Pharisees imagined that adultery only meant physical sex with somebody to whom was not married. Jesus explained that adultery includes adulterous thoughts. He explained the same with the matter of murder.

When the Lord Jesus began His ministry, He was about 30 years old.
When He came to the Jews, their basis for salvation was the Word of God. They therefore sought to obey God’s commandments according to their literal meaning: “Do not murder, do not steal, do not lie, do not commit adultery, honor the Sabbath, Love your parents” and so on.

Because they followed these commandments, families remained intact, and people were able to live happy and peaceful lives. They helped one another, loved one another, and respected each other.
They also had a day of rest in a week, when they would pray and worship God in the temple.

So I ask you: Wasn’t this already the kind of life that God wanted people to have?
Wasn’t God’s purpose for His commandments to guide people toward righteousness, peace, love, and harmony with one another?

 

[DavidLamb]

When the Lord Jesus began His ministry, He was about 30 years old.
When He came to the Jews, their basis for salvation was the Word of God. They therefore sought to obey God’s commandments according to their literal meaning: “Do not murder, do not steal, do not lie, do not commit adultery, honor the Sabbath, Love your parents” and so on.

Because they followed these commandments, families remained intact, and people were able to live happy and peaceful lives. They helped one another, loved one another, and respected each other.
They also had a day of rest in a week, when they would pray and worship God in the temple.

So I ask you: Wasn’t this already the kind of life that God wanted people to have?
Wasn’t God’s purpose for His commandments to guide people toward righteousness, peace, love, and harmony with one another?

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

NKJV Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

There are people like that today, who think that so long as they are not committing those headline-grabbing outward sins, they can be full of hatred, greed, and lust inside, and nobody, not even God, will know. But God does know, for He looks at our hearts.

 

[Godsgood]

So if a world-wide flood is still happening today, why are you and I not drowned? Can you not see that it is nonsense to say that everything recorded in the Bible is still happening today?

That is why you do not see these things continuing to happen today: because your understanding of the Word of God comes only from yourself or from other people.

We who have come to know the one true God do not rely on our own understanding when it comes to God and His Word.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Nor do we put our trust in people when the matter concerns God and His teachings.
JEREMIAH 17:5
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

We always ask God for mercy, so that He may reveal the truth in His Word to us.
That is why we continually thank Him for the true blessings He has bestowed upon us, blessings that are not for the benefit of the flesh or the physical body, but for the soul.

For it is the soul that will be with God in His kingdom, not the flesh or the physical body.

That is why we can see the same events that happened in the past still taking place today.
They happen for the benefit of the soul, not for the body.

 

[Godsgood]

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

NKJV Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

There are people like that today, who think that so long as they are not committing those headline-grabbing outward sins, they can be full of hatred, greed, and lust inside, and nobody, not even God, will know. But God does know, for He looks at our hearts.

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

As far as their physical lives were concerned, they were considered clean.
As evidence of this, the Jews followed them.
That is why the Lord said to them, “For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish.”

And what you are referring to as “evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her” concerns the spiritual life, not the physical life.

So I ask you, do you know how the cleansing of the inside is done, as the Lord told them, “Cleanse first the inside of the cup and dish”? May I hear your answer?

 

[DavidLamb]

That is why you do not see these things continuing to happen today: because your understanding of the Word of God comes only from yourself or from other people.

No, it is simply because God in His word says that the flood of Noah's time came to an end.

We who have come to know the one true God do not rely on our own understanding when it comes to God and His Word.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

I fully agree that we are to trust in the Lord and not in our own understanding. But trusting in the Lord includes trusting Him when He says that something has finished. He said that the flood was over. His word says several times that He brought Israel out of Egypt, not that He is still bringing them out of Egypt. His word also tells us that Jesus grew:

NKJV Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

So He is no longer a baby in a manger.

So trusting in the Lord does not mean blindly believing that everything recorded in Scripture is still happening today.

Nor do we put our trust in people when the matter concerns God and His teachings.
JEREMIAH 17:5
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

We always ask God for mercy, so that He may reveal the truth in His Word to us.
That is why we continually thank Him for the true blessings He has bestowed upon us, blessings that are not for the benefit of the flesh or the physical body, but for the soul.

For it is the soul that will be with God in His kingdom, not the flesh or the physical body.

That is why we can see the same events that happened in the past still taking place today.
They happen for the benefit of the soul, not for the body.

Do you then really believe that the wise men are still following the star, that Jesus is still on the cross, that Paul is still on his missionary journeys? Surely you must do, if you really believe that the same events recorded in the Bible are still happening today.

 

[DavidLamb]

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

As far as their physical lives were concerned, they were considered clean.
As evidence of this, the Jews followed them.
That is why the Lord said to them, “For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish.”

And what you are referring to as “evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her” concerns the spiritual life, not the physical life.

So I ask you, do you know how the cleansing of the inside is done, as the Lord told them, “Cleanse first the inside of the cup and dish”? May I hear your answer?

Jesus Christ does that through His shed blood:

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[Dino246]

So I ask you: Wasn’t this already the kind of life that God wanted people to have?
Wasn’t God’s purpose for His commandments to guide people toward righteousness, peace, love, and harmony with one another?

That's a surface-level reading, what you call "literal physical".

The deeper purpose of the law was to demonstrate to people that they needed a Saviour and to prepare them for Him.

 

[Dino246]

That is why you do not see these things continuing to happen today: because your understanding of the Word of God comes only from yourself or from other people.

We who have come to know the one true God do not rely on our own understanding when it comes to God and His Word.

Nor do we put our trust in people when the matter concerns God and His teachings.

We always ask God for mercy, so that He may reveal the truth in His Word to us.
That is why we continually thank Him for the true blessings He has bestowed upon us, blessings that are not for the benefit of the flesh or the physical body, but for the soul.

For it is the soul that will be with God in His kingdom, not the flesh or the physical body.

That is why we can see the same events that happened in the past still taking place today.
They happen for the benefit of the soul, not for the body.

That is ridiculous and unproveable hogwash. You make a mockery of God's word with your errors.

 

[OMC]

That's a surface-level reading, what you call "literal physical".

The deeper purpose of the law was to demonstrate to people that they needed a Saviour and to prepare them for Him.

I would agree with your statement — but I would also insist that the literal and the deeper purpose of the law are not opposites. Scripture presents both together.

 

[Godsgood]

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

NKJV Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

There are people like that today, who think that so long as they are not committing those headline-grabbing outward sins, they can be full of hatred, greed, and lust inside, and nobody, not even God, will know. But God does know, for He looks at our hearts.

NKJV Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

There are people like that today, who think that so long as they are not committing those headline-grabbing outward sins, they can be full of hatred, greed, and lust inside, and nobody, not even God, will know. But God does know, for He looks at our hearts.

Your understanding of the Word of God comes only from yourself or from other people. You understand the words of God only according to their literal meaning.

But the truth is this: Anyone who does not know the one true God, even if they do all the good things that a person knows to do, is still, in the sight of God, included among those described in the verses you mentioned.

 

[Dino246]

I would agree with your statement — but I would also insist that the literal and the deeper purpose of the law are not opposites. Scripture presents both together.

I agree. I think you, myself, and David are all on the same page, even if we present similar ideas in different words.

 

[OMC]

That is ridiculous and unproveable hogwash. You make a mockery of God's word with your errors.

That is why you do not see these things continuing to happen today: because your understanding of the Word of God comes only from yourself or from other people.

We who have come to know the one true God do not rely on our own understanding when it comes to God and His Word.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Nor do we put our trust in people when the matter concerns God and His teachings.
JEREMIAH 17:5
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

We always ask God for mercy, so that He may reveal the truth in His Word to us.
That is why we continually thank Him for the true blessings He has bestowed upon us, blessings that are not for the benefit of the flesh or the physical body, but for the soul.

For it is the soul that will be with God in His kingdom, not the flesh or the physical body.

That is why we can see the same events that happened in the past still taking place today.
They happen for the benefit of the soul, not for the body.

we absolutely do not rely on our own understanding (Prov. 3:5), nor do we trust in men when it comes to God’s truth (Ps. 118:8); we seek mercy so the Spirit may open the Word to us (Ps. 119:18), yet Scripture shows that the great redemptive events of the past do not repeat physically today — their spiritual realities continue, but the historical acts themselves were once‑for‑all (Heb. 9:26), given for the soul’s benefit, not the flesh.

 

[Godsgood]

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

NKJV Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

There are people like that today, who think that so long as they are not committing those headline-grabbing outward sins, they can be full of hatred, greed, and lust inside, and nobody, not even God, will know. But God does know, for He looks at our hearts.

No. What the Scribes and Pharisees were doing was limiting the commandments to mere outward acts. They thought if the didn't partake in sex outside of marriage, they were being really good. Jesus told them that the commandment included evil thoughts, looking at a woman other than one's wife and having lustful thoughts about her. No wonder Jesus told them that they appeared clean on the outside, but inside they were filthy:

And besides, how sure are you that all the Scribes, Pharisees, and Jews were included in what you are saying?

 

[Godsgood]

The wet kind.

When we are discussing the Word of God, a person should be serious, because the words of God are sacred and should not be mixed with foolish answers.
Because of your answer, I once again affirm Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.

When the Lord spoke the truth through the words of God, there were soldiers who mocked Him.
And that event simply repeats itself; the Word of God does not pass away.
Because today, I can see what appears to be soldiers here who are mocking and making light of the discussion about the Word of God.
LUKE 22:63-64
63 And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
64 And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
That is why I truly feel sorry for those who believe in you and will continue to believe in you.
Don't worry, I know that many people believe in you.

However, you cannot deceive the lost sheep, because God will continually reveal to them who you truly are when it comes to matters concerning salvation.

 

[Godsgood]

Understanding that verse as literally true does not in any way contradict Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.

What kind of water did John the Baptist use for baptism?

David Lamb, I noticed that you have a spokesperson here. Isn’t it supposed to be, “Work out your own salvation”?

PHILIPPIANS 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If you cannot even fulfill a simple commandment like this, then it is impossible for you to fulfill the greater commandments as well.
If you cannot be trusted with a small commandment, how can you be entrusted with a greater one?