How do preachers or teachers explain this?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
JOHN 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
What the Lord is referring to as “blessed” are those whom God sees as humble before Him.
 
Don't you mean that they CLAIM to have left behind their old sinful selves because they have learned to avoid some of the more obvious results of a sinful nature such as harmful habits and vices? I know of no believer living on earth who has fully lost their sin nature, only ones who make some degree of effort to battle against it in themselves.
The Lord God has His own standard of what is good and what is evil. Likewise, people have their own standards of what they consider good and evil.

Evil actions and vices are part of the human standard for what is considered sin. But if a person humbly asks the Lord to reveal His standard of good and evil, God will reveal the true nature of that person’s sin.

Because the sin that people thoughts is not the same as the sin that God thoughts.
ISAIAH 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
JOHN 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
He is speaking to an audience in his statement is regarding work for the kingdom in The Believer such as witnessing loving caring and any of the things, that as somebody mentioned befor,e the gifts provide a work for christ.

Christ mission was for the jews. But they are rejecting him and the gift of salvation opens now to the Gentiles, whom after jesus is resurrected those who believe will do greater work in scope, not in power. He is saying they will reach more men for God than he has done so far, and they will have the gifts as mentioned to empower them to do so.

I hope I said that clear enough it's late lol.
 
The Lord God made a promise to His chosen ones: He would make His name known to them.
ISAIAH 52:6
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

He fulfilled His promise to His chosen ones by giving them a white stone, on which His name is written.
Only the one who receives it knows the name of God.
REVELATION 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
But as I have said, Revelation 2:17 does not say that God will give a white stone which has God's own name written on it. Rather, it says that He will give a white stone in which a new name is written.
This truth does not pass away, as stated in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. God continues to give His chosen ones the white stone bearing the name of God.
See above- the verse does not say "God's name."
Because if you cannot name the one true God, it means that He has not given you the white stone.
Therefore, it has also not been revealed to you who the true Jesus is the one who came in the flesh (1 John 4:2–3).
Nor can you name the one true God who is seated on a throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2).
But I can name Him, because He Himself tells us His name in His word. You keep saying that what He said to Moses wasn't His name, but God Himself said it was:

NKJV Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
Exo 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
Exo 3:15 Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.'

"This is My name forever." It couldn't be any clearer. Yet you say that God has not told us His name, but only reveals it in a white stone. You seem to be disagreeing with God Himself.

We are the ones who truly humbled ourselves before God. That is why the one true God revealed Himself to us.
That sounds boastful rather than humble. The Bible many times tells us that God's favours are granted because of His grace, not because of humility or any other good quality in us. Think how Paul tells the Ephesian Christians that they had been "dead in trespasses and sins" when God displayed His grace to them:

NKJV Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We received the white stone, and because of it, we were enlightened and came to understand the words of God.
And it is clear to us who the true Jesus is the one who came in the flesh.
We can also name the one true God who is seated on a throne in heaven.
Thew Bible tells us Who Jesus is, fully God and fully Man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
The Lord’s warning is for those who do not recognize the one true God. By relying on their own understanding of God’s Word, they add to what is written.
REVELATION 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

For example, God alone should be called Rabbi, Pastor, Father or Teacher.
Therefore, God alone should be the one who teaches.
Yet they take these titles upon themselves and assume the role of teaching others.
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.
Is it not clear, then, that what they are doing is adding to what is written?
MATTHEW 23:8-9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Yes, it is true that we should not call mere men our masters or fathers, as honorific titles. It cannot mean that Christians are not permitted to call anybody "father", because many times the Bible refers to male parents as "fathers". For example:

NKJV Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Eph 6:2 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER," which is the first commandment with promise:
Eph 6:3 "THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU AND YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH."
Eph 6:4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

What do you call a male parent?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
The Lord’s warning is for those who do not recognize the one true God. By relying on their own understanding of God’s Word, they add to what is written.
REVELATION 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

For example, God alone should be called Rabbi, Pastor, Father or Teacher.
Therefore, God alone should be the one who teaches.
Yet they take these titles upon themselves and assume the role of teaching others.
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.
Is it not clear, then, that what they are doing is adding to what is written?
MATTHEW 23:8-9
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Yes, it is true that we should not call mere men our masters or fathers, as honorific titles. It cannot mean that Christians are not permitted to call anybody "father", because many times the Bible refers to male parents as "fathers". For example:

NKJV Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Eph 6:2 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER," which is the first commandment with promise:
Eph 6:3 "THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU AND YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH."
Eph 6:4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

What do you call a male parent?
 
The Lord’s warning is for those who do not recognize the one true God. By relying on their own understanding of God’s Word, they add to what is written.
REVELATION 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
It’s right there in black and white but you claim it says something else. That tells me you have become blind to the truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidLamb
I would not say that I know the one true God if I had not received the white stone on which the name of the one true God is written.

The reason you deny this is because God has exposed the fact that you were not given the white stone. That is why, until now, you do not know the one true God.

And the reason is that God does not see humility in you. What He sees in you is pride.
I find your delusional rants mildly amusing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidLamb
I find your delusional rants mildly amusing.
The system he is using is private‑revelation elitism — a world‑system move where a person treats their own subjective spiritual experience (“I received the white stone”) as an authoritative test of salvation, then uses that private claim to judge others’ spiritual condition, calling them proud, unregenerate, or ignorant of God because they did not receive the same experience.
The markers are unmistakable:
(1) self‑authentication — “I know God because I received the stone”;
(2) other‑condemnation — “you deny this because you were not given the stone”;
(3) subjective revelation elevated above Scripture —The white stone of Revelation 2:17 is a promise from Christ, not a diagnostic tool for evaluating other believers;
(4) spiritual gatekeeping — salvation is redefined as receiving a private mystical token rather than believing the gospel;
(5) pride inversion — accusing others of pride while grounding one’s own certainty in a personal mystical experience.
None of this comes from Scripture; all of it comes from a private‑revelation elitism system that replaces the biblical test (“whoever believes on the Son has life”) with a personal spiritual credential. There is no winning here as long as he continues to bring in that system. The Scripture does not agree with it. I would leave the warning you gave and walk away. IMHO.
 
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.

Yes, it is true that we should not call mere men our masters or fathers, as honorific titles. It cannot mean that Christians are not permitted to call anybody "father", because many times the Bible refers to male parents as "fathers". For example:

NKJV Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Eph 6:2 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER," which is the first commandment with promise:
Eph 6:3 "THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU AND YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH."
Eph 6:4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

What do you call a male parent?
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists,
and some pastors and teachers,

I’ve already answered what you’re saying over and over again. But for the stray sheep who may have just stumbled upon this now, I’ll answer it once again.

If your clear understanding of Ephesians 4:11 is truly correct, then I hope that those who have been chosen would have only one understanding, one belief, and one way of salvation and, above all, one true understanding of who Jesus really is.

Look at those whom the Lord chose. Among the Lord’s disciples, none of them called themselves Pastor, Teacher, Father, or Rabbi.

Yet the different groups within Christianity, which cannot even agree with one another, use these very titles.
Would God choose people who teach different things?
 
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.

Yes, it is true that we should not call mere men our masters or fathers, as honorific titles. It cannot mean that Christians are not permitted to call anybody "father", because many times the Bible refers to male parents as "fathers". For example:

NKJV Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Eph 6:2 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER," which is the first commandment with promise:
Eph 6:3 "THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU AND YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH."
Eph 6:4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

What do you call a male parent?
I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.

The titles you are referring to are titles that belong only to the Lord God. Without realizing it, people take upon themselves titles that are not meant for human beings.

As the Lord said in John 3:12, “I have spoken to you of earthly things so that you may understand heavenly things.”

Let us consider an earthly example: if someone gives you something and you later find out that it was stolen, would you accept it?
 
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists,
and some pastors and teachers,

I’ve already answered what you’re saying over and over again. But for the stray sheep who may have just stumbled upon this now, I’ll answer it once again.

If your clear understanding of Ephesians 4:11 is truly correct, then I hope that those who have been chosen would have only one understanding, one belief, and one way of salvation and, above all, one true understanding of who Jesus really is.

Look at those whom the Lord chose. Among the Lord’s disciples, none of them called themselves Pastor, Teacher, Father, or Rabbi.

Yet the different groups within Christianity, which cannot even agree with one another, use these very titles.
Would God choose people who teach different things?
You haven't refuted the Scripture. All you've done is wave a red herring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidLamb
I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.

The titles you are referring to are titles that belong only to the Lord God. Without realizing it, people take upon themselves titles that are not meant for human beings.

As the Lord said in John 3:12, “I have spoken to you of earthly things so that you may understand heavenly things.”

Let us consider an earthly example: if someone gives you something and you later find out that it was stolen, would you accept it?
Another red herring. Scripture CLEARLY teaches that GOD GAVE SOME to be TEACHERS.

You have a problem with the Scripture, not with us who are pointing it out to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidLamb
Once again, you go against God's written word, the Bible. No idea there that God is the only pastor or teacher. He equipped His churches with pastors and teachers:

NKJV Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists,
and some pastors and teachers,

I’ve already answered what you’re saying over and over again. But for the stray sheep who may have just stumbled upon this now, I’ll answer it once again.

If your clear understanding of Ephesians 4:11 is truly correct, then I hope that those who have been chosen would have only one understanding, one belief, and one way of salvation and, above all, one true understanding of who Jesus really is.

Look at those whom the Lord chose. Among the Lord’s disciples, none of them called themselves Pastor, Teacher, Father, or Rabbi.

Yet the different groups within Christianity, which cannot even agree with one another, use these very titles.
Would God choose people who teach different things?
The plain teaching of Scripture is that God gave pastors and teachers to His churches. The word "pastor" means a shepherd, and when takling to the elders of the church at Ephesus, Paul said:

Act 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Peter wrote:

NKJV 1Pe 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed:
1Pe 5:2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;
1Pe 5:3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;
1Pe 5:4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
I would agree that if a man takes to himself the office of pastor, that is wrong, but God Himself gives pastors and teachers to His chjurches.

The titles you are referring to are titles that belong only to the Lord God. Without realizing it, people take upon themselves titles that are not meant for human beings.

As the Lord said in John 3:12, “I have spoken to you of earthly things so that you may understand heavenly things.”

Let us consider an earthly example: if someone gives you something and you later find out that it was stolen, would you accept it?
But if "pastor" and "teacher" belonged only to God, why does God's word say that God Himself gave pastors and teachers to His churches? Did those God-given pastors and teachers steal their roles? No, they were given them by God.
 
But if "pastor" and "teacher" belonged only to God, why does God's word say that God Himself gave pastors and teachers to His churches? Did those God-given pastors and teachers steal their roles? No, they were given them by God.
In John 3:12, let us begin with earthly things. Suppose that someone gives you something, and you later discover that it was stolen. The person who gave it to you might say, “It wasn’t stolen; the truth is, it was given to you.”

If you want to believe that person, then go ahead. But if you want to prove whether it was stolen or not, you could simply wait for the proper time. If a police officer comes and arrests you and you are brought to trial to face punishment, then you will know the truth.

But wouldn’t it be better to ask the owner directly, so that you can be certain whether the item was stolen or not?
You will know whether you are right or wrong by following the proper way.

Remember, once you are already facing punishment, you will no longer be able to correct your mistake, even if you repent.
Look at the rich man who repented, but by then, it was already too late.
LUKE 16:22-31
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
In John 3:12, let us begin with earthly things. Suppose that someone gives you something, and you later discover that it was stolen. The person who gave it to you might say, “It wasn’t stolen; the truth is, it was given to you.”

If you want to believe that person, then go ahead. But if you want to prove whether it was stolen or not, you could simply wait for the proper time. If a police officer comes and arrests you and you are brought to trial to face punishment, then you will know the truth.

But wouldn’t it be better to ask the owner directly, so that you can be certain whether the item was stolen or not?
You will know whether you are right or wrong by following the proper way.

Remember, once you are already facing punishment, you will no longer be able to correct your mistake, even if you repent.
Look at the rich man who repented, but by then, it was already too late.
LUKE 16:22-31
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Nothing here proves your assertion… or even speaks to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DavidLamb
In John 3:12, let us begin with earthly things. Suppose that someone gives you something, and you later discover that it was stolen. The person who gave it to you might say, “It wasn’t stolen; the truth is, it was given to you.”

If you want to believe that person, then go ahead. But if you want to prove whether it was stolen or not, you could simply wait for the proper time. If a police officer comes and arrests you and you are brought to trial to face punishment, then you will know the truth.

But wouldn’t it be better to ask the owner directly, so that you can be certain whether the item was stolen or not?
You will know whether you are right or wrong by following the proper way.

Remember, once you are already facing punishment, you will no longer be able to correct your mistake, even if you repent.
Look at the rich man who repented, but by then, it was already too late.
LUKE 16:22-31
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
You’re using moral‑illustration soteriology, where parables and analogies are treated as literal salvation mechanics and where “earthly things” in John 3:12 are turned into courtroom‑style procedures for verifying salvation, even though Jesus is contrasting earthly illustrations with heavenly realities, not teaching a forensic method of proving truth.
Your stolen‑item analogy assumes salvation is discovered by procedural verification rather than by believing the gospel, and then you import Luke 16 as if the rich man’s post‑mortem regret teaches a doctrine of “too‑late repentance,” even though the passage is about the finality of judgment and the sufficiency of Moses and the prophets. Your system always treats parables as direct soteriological blueprints, but Jesus uses them to expose heart‑posture, not to outline salvation procedures;
John 3 teaches new birth by the Spirit, not investigative testing, and
Luke 16 teaches that unbelief persists even in the face of miracles, not that salvation is obtained by asking the “owner” of a stolen item.
Your logic replaces the gospel with an investigative process, but the Scripture you cited consistently places salvation in hearing and believing, not in proving or verifying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
In John 3:12, let us begin with earthly things. Suppose that someone gives you something, and you later discover that it was stolen. The person who gave it to you might say, “It wasn’t stolen; the truth is, it was given to you.”

If you want to believe that person, then go ahead. But if you want to prove whether it was stolen or not, you could simply wait for the proper time. If a police officer comes and arrests you and you are brought to trial to face punishment, then you will know the truth.

But wouldn’t it be better to ask the owner directly, so that you can be certain whether the item was stolen or not?
You will know whether you are right or wrong by following the proper way.

Remember, once you are already facing punishment, you will no longer be able to correct your mistake, even if you repent.
Look at the rich man who repented, but by then, it was already too late.
LUKE 16:22-31
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Why are you asking about stolen things? God says in His word that He gave pastors and teachers to the churches. Are you suggesting that God gave stolen property to His churches? Acts talks about God making some men overseers of the flock - another way of saying "pastors":

NKJV Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

We are not discussing something which one human being gives to another human being here, but almighty God giving pastors and teachers to His churches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246
You’re using moral‑illustration soteriology, where parables and analogies are treated as literal salvation mechanics and where “earthly things” in John 3:12 are turned into courtroom‑style procedures for verifying salvation, even though Jesus is contrasting earthly illustrations with heavenly realities, not teaching a forensic method of proving truth.
Your stolen‑item analogy assumes salvation is discovered by procedural verification rather than by believing the gospel, and then you import Luke 16 as if the rich man’s post‑mortem regret teaches a doctrine of “too‑late repentance,” even though the passage is about the finality of judgment and the sufficiency of Moses and the prophets. Your system always treats parables as direct soteriological blueprints, but Jesus uses them to expose heart‑posture, not to outline salvation procedures;
John 3 teaches new birth by the Spirit, not investigative testing, and
Luke 16 teaches that unbelief persists even in the face of miracles, not that salvation is obtained by asking the “owner” of a stolen item.
Your logic replaces the gospel with an investigative process, but the Scripture you cited consistently places salvation in hearing and believing, not in proving or verifying.
I agree. Besides, it wasn't salvation, but God Himself giving pastors and teachers to His churches, that was under discussion. If they are God's gifts, how can they possibly be stolen goods?