How to Spot a Legalist

[crossnote]

Faith establishes the law because it lifts up and glories in Christ, the ONLY law keeper, and not in self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your personal interpretation does not justify your allegations against teh children of obedience. Truth includes all of our Father's will. It is an unhappy state when brethren acuse those who believe in being children of obedience somethng called legalists, and people who "do" things to assure their salvation. My salvation is assured by the Lamb of God, but this grace does not allow for deliberately turning back to a life of disobedience for this is tramping the Blood of the Lam o God.

Now, I have never, not here nor elsewhere in the forum stated anyone obey anything other than what is taught by Jesus Christ, and how He teaches it.

You are not required to go back through my years of posting, but you are required not to jude other in this regard.

Do you know anything about what anyone here whom you have labeled "legalists" believe? I think not, otherwise you would not be on this rant.

We all believe we are saved only by the Blood of the Lamb. We all the Writings ae all valid, as Çrossnote implied, all of the Bible is true, so why do you find fault with fellow servants? I know, when we say we should do works worthy of our Salvation, and obey God as best we are able, this bothers you. It is better ot over-obey then to teach the brethren to sin.

Obedience goes both ways.

1. Perfection (if you want to be saved by your obedience) under law (legalistic sanctification and justification)
2. Grace, out of appreciation of what God did for you, AND out of the power of love you are now given by and through the love God has given to you (experiencial sanctification)

Obedience the first way is like giving God bloody rags, God not only hates it, he despises it.

Self righteousness makes God puke, do you not see the huge difference?

 

[KennethC]

No. Jesus exposed our sinful hearts by revealing the true intent of the Law. You fail to see and admit that Jesus' commandments were tougher than Moses' because it dashes your delusion that you are keeping them.

Romans 5:19-21 (KJV)
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

They were the same commandments not different commandments !!!

Lord Jesus just expounded on the laws/commandments that already existed, He did not make a whole new set of commandments. And He lightened the yoke by telling us instead of just focusing on written ordinances as the OT Jews did to just focus on walking in love and all else will fall in place, as love will establish, uphold, and thus fulfill the law and the prophets.

 

[crossnote]

Yes, cold being Law and hot being Grace. The combination of the two being lukewarm and nullifies the two. At least if you are under Law you can be lead to Jesus, in that way it is better to be one or the other. Much better however to be hot (in grace).

Is that why the Pharisees embraced Christ so ?

 

[JaumeJ]

Someone here is saying we cannot have a room speaking of obedience, while the Word speaks of it throughout. I suppose it is "verboten" to bring it up.

 

[KennethC]

Yes, cold being Law and hot being Grace. The combination of the two being lukewarm and nullifies the two. At least if you are under Law you can be lead to Jesus, in that way it is better to be one or the other. Much better however to be hot (in grace).

No cold means trying to serve the flesh, and hot means serving the Lord our God, lukewarm is those that try to serve both......Jesus says He will spit those out of His mouth, and again this is referring to the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law, NOT Jesus teachings and commands !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, cold being Law and hot being Grace. The combination of the two being lukewarm and nullifies the two. At least if you are under Law you can be lead to Jesus, in that way it is better to be one or the other. Much better however to be hot (in grace).

amen, that is why the law will never fade away, As long as people need brought to Christ, The law will always have a purpose.

Thank God for the law. because without it, We would never find Christ (at least that is what God thinks, because he states that is why he gave is the law)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone here is saying we cannot have a room speaking of obedience, while the Word speaks of it throughout. I suppose it is "verboten" to bring it up.

You can't when the one speaking obedience claims salvation is dependent on it.

THATS LEGALISM

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yet you still believe one who teaches to keep Jesus teachings and commandments are a legalist !!!

As you once said to me, "if the shoe fits....."

 

[crossnote]

They were the same commandments not different commandments !!!

Lord Jesus just expounded on the laws/commandments that already existed, He did not make a whole new set of commandments. And He lightened the yoke by telling us instead of just focusing on written ordinances as the OT Jews did to just focus on walking in love and all else will fall in place, as love will establish, uphold, and thus fulfill the law and the prophets.

Such as Love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, ALL your soul...so far I'm guilty, how about you?
(Implied..ALL the time)

 

[KennethC]

No. Jesus exposed our sinful hearts by revealing the true intent of the Law. You fail to see and admit that Jesus' commandments were tougher than Moses' because it dashes your delusion that you are keeping them.

Romans 5:19-21 (KJV)
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Law showed us our sinful ways, and the Lord showed us a better way to walk then focusing on written ordinances.

He taught us to simply walk in love, and by doing so all else will fall in place !!!

We do not void the law by faith, we establish it, and that means by walking in love we will do no wrong to self and others thus love our neighbor upholds and fulfills the law in our life.

 

[just-me]

Indeed. If you want to be under the Law, you are under all of it. No slicing and dicing allowed.

I am not condemned by the law of God as one that is under it. If a person only sees condemnation in it then they have not yet been lifted up.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:10

Those who have rejected the law are the ones who are really under it because they believe it condemns them. Get over it! Pun intended.

 

[BenFTW]

The Pharisees were legalists, and Jesus told them to do it right, but He didn't say to forsake the the law, as the person that started this thread is trying to teach. Jesus told the Pharisees to observe what the law was REALLY all about in truth. Reject this truth and reject grace simultaneously. Grace is not an adversary of the truth in the law of God. You actually think that there are 2 different God's, One that gives grace, and the other that gives the law? Get real!!!

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

Those that reject even a jot or tittle of the law are just as hypocritical as the Pharisees that Jesus confronted. This is truth, and we will like it or hate it.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. John 15:18

Do you really think Jesus was telling them how to actually do the Law and that it was possible for them to keep it? Or do you remember the words of Jesus about plucking out your eye? Do you think Jesus actually meant if they mutilated themselves they could keep God's law? He didn't tell them to forsake the Law because they wanted to be justified by it, so he is allowing the Law to do its job, which is to condemn. It is to bring a man to the end of himself, seeing his need for the Messiah. Remember, Israel boasted they could do all that the Lord commanded, and then were given the Law. They wanted a justification of merit and not faith.

 

[KennethC]

Such as Love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, ALL your mind, ALL your soul...so far I'm guilty, how about you?
(Implied..ALL the time)

You do realize that keeping those two commandments does not mean we will not stumble, but when we do stumble we will repent and confess that sin to the Lord for forgiveness which is keeping with obeying the commandments !!!

Trying to play a blame games of I am guilty does not work as long as one understands when they do stumble and sin again, in order to keep with His teachings and commandments we are to repent and confess them to Him and continue walking in the Spirit/Light !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Obedience goes both ways.

1. Perfection (if you want to be saved by your obedience) under law (legalistic sanctification and justification)
2. Grace, out of appreciation of what God did for you, AND out of the power of love you are now given by and through the love God has given to you (experiencial sanctification)

Obedience the first way is like giving God bloody rags, God not only hates it, he despises it.

Self righteousness makes God puke, do you not see the huge difference?

Yep. We're aren't saved by our obedience but by Christs obedience for us.

"For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous." Rom. 5:19

 

[KennethC]

As you once said to me, "if the shoe fits....."

Is that harsh words or is that saying if this is the way you believe then this scripture fits you !!!

There is a difference in just upfront being demeaning and belittling of others, then to make a statement that went along with other words showing scripture from the bible that says if this is how you believe then the shoe fits !!!

That is not belittling and demeaning to use that phrase in that way, and I would appreciate if you want to bring up something I said please use the whole quote instead of just a few words. For that shows you are attempting to make one look bad and cause strife, which is again not a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BenFTW]

I am not condemned by the law of God as one that is under it. If a person only sees condemnation in it then they have not yet been lifted up.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:10

Those who have rejected the law are the ones who are really under it because they believe it condemns them. Get over it! Pun intended.

It condemns you too, only you have accepted Jesus and therefore it can't condemn you for He has saved you. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Don't believe its meant for condemnation? Let me help you...

2 Corinthians 3:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

 

[JaumeJ]

Have I not repeatedly posted that salvation is only by the Blood of Christ? Then why are you making up stories about me saying I am a legalist and legalists believe this is how they are saved., No, you have again stated an untruth. This untruth is not only about me, but about all those brethren you have deemed as dismissing salvation by the Blood of Jesus Christ.


STOP THIS BEHAVIOR, and listen to what is being shared. What I share is based only upon the Word, the teachings of Jesus Christ..............watch your accusations, they are very ugly.

You can't when the one speaking obedience claims salvation is dependent on it.

THATS LEGALISM

 

[FreeNChrist]

I am not condemned by the law of God as one that is under it. If a person only sees condemnation in it then they have not yet been lifted up.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:10

Those who have rejected the law are the ones who are really under it because they believe it condemns them. Get over it! Pun intended.

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory." 2 Cor. 3:7-10

 

[crossnote]

You do realize that keeping those two commandments does not mean we will not stumble, but when we do stumble we will repent and confess that sin to the Lord for forgiveness which is keeping with obeying the commandments !!!

Trying to play a blame games of I am guilty does not work as long as one understands when they do stumble and sin again, in order to keep with His teachings and commandments we are to repent and confess them to Him and continue walking in the Spirit/Light !!!

Sorry, I can't go 5 seconds keeping that first and greatest Commandment. Jesus fulfilled that righteousness in my stead and what obedience leaks out of me would send me repenting continually.
Only a Pharisee sees himself keeping that single Commandment most the time!!!