If it's by works then I'm doomed !

[JennaLeanne]

OK so there is soooo many HEATED discussions going on about grace/works... I'm not no bible scholar I don't want to argue doctrine but I want to share a few things that I pray will bear witness to the spirit in you..

Ephesians 2:8 (amp) For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favour) that you are saved (delivered from judgement and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through your faith. And this salvation is not of yourselves (of your own doing, it came not through your own striving ) but it is a gift from God.

This verse alone (no others are needed) clarify 's that we are saved by the gift of God which is grace... So, if we are saved by grace through faith surely that had to be the foundation of everything ? Grace has to be the beginning of everything ? Is this a daily thing for me or is saved past tense ? Notice it doesn't say I will save you daily through grace it says you are saved..

Now personally for me I don't have to read these scriptures to know that's true.. The scriptures bring confirmation to the reality of grace in my life... I can honestly hold my hands up and say I have done NOTHING but say Father HELP ME! That's it... If where I am today wasn't for the grace of God then there would be no here I am today.. Like why aren't I on crack now? Why aren't I a hooker? Why aren't I on anti psychotics ? How on earth can I care for a child the way that I do ? Man, how am I even alive to write this ??? This is the reality of grace in my life.. Not because of anything I have done...

Yes we can argue obedience, But honestly without grace obedience is impossible.. It's only because of what he did can we do.. Are we to obey the word of God. Of course we are.. How ?? Through grace.. We have to have the understanding that without grace we can do nothing.. It's impossible to not be fornicators, it's impossible to not covet, it's impossible to not be angry.. That's who we were.. Our nature as sinners.. But now Praise God we have a new nature.. We are the righteousness of God in Chris Jesus.. All because of Love.. Grace Grace Grace is everything..

No words or scripture can move me from this truth that I know.. Not because of head knowledge but because I am a walking miracle.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Just as the bible talks about grace, it talks about obedience. You can believe that God will save those who ignore His commands and do as they please as long as they believe Christ died on the cross if you want, but thats not in the bible.

Yes, saved by grace. No, not free to sin.

EDIT This also didnt need its own thread, you are free to post in one of the many existing threads.

 

[JennaLeanne]

The argument free to sin is not necessary
. It's just lack of revelation... If you are in Christ, the old has passed away. Romans 5:19 says that because of Jesus obedience we are made righteous. That means I am no longer a sinner by nature.. Dead to sin alive to God in Christ. . It's the lack of knowledge of this that makes us carry on "sinning" so to speak..

I'm free to create my own thread also

 

[notmyown]

Now personally for me I don't have to read these scriptures to know that's true..

i appreciate your testimony, and you seem a lovely young woman.
a word of caution, however?

you absolutely do need the scriptures to know anything is true.
God's Word is the only source of truth we have in this world.
personal feelings can mislead us, but His Word will not.

do be careful of making (or thinking) statements like this--

No words or scripture can move me from this truth that I know

 

[JennaLeanne]

I meant it in the context of people throwing scripture at me that try to oppose the truth in my heart.. This is possible if we use it out of context.. All scripture is God breathed.. Everything written bears witness with the spirit in me. That's all I was trying to say.. I'm not the best at wording things haha xx

 

[BeyondET]

I agree and I'm humbled to the point of tears on some days, Grace has so much patience i can feel unworthy at times but when I feel that Grace says it's ok my Love is unconditional...

 

[JennaLeanne]

I agree and I'm humbled to the point of tears on some days, Grace has so much patience i can feel unworthy at times but when I feel that Grace says it's ok my Love is unconditional...

Yes me too.. His love never stops persuing us.. The battle is won my brother.. Let's renew our minds to that truth.. Satan only has power over the areas we lack knowledge..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul focuses on our "position in Christ" so many times, Over and over he tells us to remember what we have in Jesus,, He tells us to focus on the things above :eternal things" not on the things below "temporal things" and if we do these things, we will see life changing results.

Gratitude based on thanksgiving is the basis of the christian walk. For without it we are self sucking organisms who are always out trying to suck in worldy things because we are empty.

Out of this sucking vortexes comes drug addiction, Sex addiction, Greed, Jealousy, Anger, and all sorts of sin. As paul said, these people will not inherit And such were some of you. That was our old nature, because we were forced to try to fill our own emptiness,

Out of our new nature comes thanksgiving, gratitude for what God has done. Paul says in phil 4 that we are to rejoice always Rejoice of what? Our God who has saved us, and given us the spirit of God in our hearts, WHo has filled out emptiness, Who has changed us, and given us an inheritance which does not fade or pass away. To live a live of thankfulness, And faith, Knowing God has and will supply all you need, and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard our hearts and minds.

This is counter culture and our world today would not want this at all. A person who is satisfied, and knows his needs are met does not need things, Thus they will not go out and purchase all these things they do not need (not like we do anyway) and this would hurt the economy which is consumer focused..

Imagine knowing your love tank is full, Knowing and trusting that all your needs are met, Knowing you are free to give, becayse you do not need to take, Love and Giving becomes a second nature, Sin is no longer in control. because sin is self centered, and we do not need to take care of self. People are drawn to us, because they see us satisfied no matter what happens, They know we will not try to take from them, so they are open, this allows us to share Christ. Because they want what we have.

All of this is based on eternal security in Christ, Remove eternal life and our eternal perspective, and all this crashes.

The religious want to do it on their own, thats why they teach obedience 24/7, because it is all they have, they try to fill their emptiness with empty religious effort and because it does not work, they get angry, and judgmental. And start picking things to judge, telling the world. we are not like you, we do not do these sin, you must stop and join us or you will suffer the eternal death.

Well that has not changed a person and made them more christ like in 6000 years.. It did not work for the jews, and has not worked for the church in 2000 years. It will never work, Because it does not fill our basic need, Only Christ can do that, And only based on the cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I meant it in the context of people throwing scripture at me that try to oppose the truth in my heart.. This is possible if we use it out of context.. All scripture is God breathed.. Everything written bears witness with the spirit in me. That's all I was trying to say.. I'm not the best at wording things haha xx

I agree, so many times in here people cut and past scripture and scripture and then tell us we are wrong. and this proves them right, When the scripture they post (usually a whole page full. way to much to even start to try to discuss) does not even support their theories, but are bunches of little verses taken out of context to prove a point.

I can make scripture say anything, all I have to do is pull a verse here and there.. and i have a doctrine truth. That is how satan has worked from the begining..

 

[notmyown]

I agree and I'm humbled to the point of tears on some days, Grace has so much patience i can feel unworthy at times but when I feel that Grace says it's ok my Love is unconditional...

sigh... i don't mean to be coming against people i actually like...

i think you mean God has so much patience, yes?
God is gracious, but grace does not exist apart from Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes me too.. His love never stops persuing us.. The battle is won my brother.. Let's renew our minds to that truth.. Satan only has power over the areas we lack knowledge..

and I would add, Faith,, I learned along time ago. I can have alot of knowledge, but if I do not have faiht in that knowledge, that knowledge is meaningless..

Thats why maturity is a lifelong process. Something we have to learn the hard way, And sometimes we have to learn over and over,, sometimes we forget what we trusted, and sometimes, we are just to hard headed lol

 

[JennaLeanne]

Paul focuses on our "position in Christ" so many times, Over and over he tells us to remember what we have in Jesus,, He tells us to focus on the things above :eternal things" not on the things below "temporal things" and if we do these things, we will see life changing results.

Gratitude based on thanksgiving is the basis of the christian walk. For without it we are self sucking organisms who are always out trying to suck in worldy things because we are empty.

Out of this sucking vortexes comes drug addiction, Sex addiction, Greed, Jealousy, Anger, and all sorts of sin. As paul said, these people will not inherit And such were some of you. That was our old nature, because we were forced to try to fill our own emptiness,

Out of our new nature comes thanksgiving, gratitude for what God has done. Paul says in phil 4 that we are to rejoice always Rejoice of what? Our God who has saved us, and given us the spirit of God in our hearts, WHo has filled out emptiness, Who has changed us, and given us an inheritance which does not fade or pass away. To live a live of thankfulness, And faith, Knowing God has and will supply all you need, and the peace of God which surpasses all comprehension will guard our hearts and minds.

This is counter culture and our world today would not want this at all. A person who is satisfied, and knows his needs are met does not need things, Thus they will not go out and purchase all these things they do not need (not like we do anyway) and this would hurt the economy which is consumer focused..

Imagine knowing your love tank is full, Knowing and trusting that all your needs are met, Knowing you are free to give, becayse you do not need to take, Love and Giving becomes a second nature, Sin is no longer in control. because sin is self centered, and we do not need to take care of self. People are drawn to us, because they see us satisfied no matter what happens, They know we will not try to take from them, so they are open, this allows us to share Christ. Because they want what we have.

All of this is based on eternal security in Christ, Remove eternal life and our eternal perspective, and all this crashes.

The religious want to do it on their own, thats why they teach obedience 24/7, because it is all they have, they try to fill their emptiness with empty religious effort and because it does not work, they get angry, and judgmental. And start picking things to judge, telling the world. we are not like you, we do not do these sin, you must stop and join us or you will suffer the eternal death.

Well that has not changed a person and made them more christ like in 6000 years.. It did not work for the jews, and has not worked for the church in 2000 years. It will never work, Because it does not fill our basic need, Only Christ can do that, And only based on the cross.

Amen! Great post.. I completely understand every word u say here.. I tried so hard for the past 6 years to be right, to do everything right.. Fighting fighting fighting all these bad habits.. A few months ago I heard the spirit say to me "self preservation" I understood that this is where I was living.. To preserve ones self is to make the work of Christ of no effect... It smells bad and is the by product of pride.. It's when we understand that without him we can do nothing... Only then will we experience the peace of humility. Bless you. Thanks for your reply xxxx

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen! Great post.. I completely understand every word u say here.. I tried so hard for the past 6 years to be right, to do everything right.. Fighting fighting fighting all these bad habits.. A few months ago I heard the spirit say to me "self preservation" I understood that this is where I was living.. To preserve ones self is to make the work of Christ of no effect... It smells bad and is the by product of pride.. It's when we understand that without him we can do nothing... Only then will we experience the peace of humility. Bless you. Thanks for your reply xxxx

Amen sis, sadly it took me a few decades to figure this out.. I am just so thankful I am finally seeing it,, And learning more and more of it every day.

 

[JennaLeanne]

sigh... i don't mean to be coming against people i actually like...

i think you mean God has so much patience, yes?
God is gracious, but grace does not exist apart from Him.

If God is love then grace is who he is also.. Its all one the character of a person is what makes us who we are..

 

[JennaLeanne]

Amen sis, sadly it took me a few decades to figure this out.. I am just so thankful I am finally seeing it,, And learning more and more of it every day.

Bless you.. Me also.. I have a long way to go in renewing my mind to the truth but praise God I am miles away from where I was last year.. We will continue to go from glory to glory.. Let me encourage u to listen to a great teacher of the fathers heart. Graham Cooke. Will bless ya socks off

 

[notmyown]

If God is love then grace is who he is also.. Its all one the character of a person is what makes us who we are..

i think part of the problem we've been having in this forum is the personification of grace... folks even spell it with a capital letter, as though it's a free floating commodity?

goodness, how dependent we are on the grace of God!
but love and grace are but two facets of God's nature as revealed in the Bible.

 

[JennaLeanne]

i think part of the problem we've been having in this forum is the personification of grace... folks even spell it with a capital letter, as though it's a free floating commodity?

goodness, how dependent we are on the grace of God!
but love and grace are but two facets of God's nature as revealed in the Bible.

Yes we are so so dependant upon the grace of God. Without it where are we ? Are the facets of our nature not what build who we are ? Xx

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes we are so so dependant upon the grace of God. Without it where are we ? Are the facets of our nature not what build who we are ? Xx

If not for Gods love, he probably would have let us destroy ourselves.

If not for Gods grace, we probably would have never existed. Have we thanked God today for the fact we were allowed to be born and have a life at all?

Amen sis!!

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

The argument free to sin is not necessary
. It's just lack of revelation... If you are in Christ, the old has passed away. Romans 5:19 says that because of Jesus obedience we are made righteous. That means I am no longer a sinner by nature.. Dead to sin alive to God in Christ. . It's the lack of knowledge of this that makes us carry on "sinning" so to speak..

James 1:14-15 "But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has concieved, gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death."

If you read that whole chapter, it in no way excludes the believers from this. Once again, I read a warning to those who believe to be watchful of sin and temptation.

Also, the idea that the believer just cant sin is not biblical. That would elevate us higher than all other people. As if we are better than they are. We do not repent because we cannot sin. We are very capable of falling back into sinful living, and we must be watchful and pray to Him often to keep our hearts focused on Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes we can argue obedience, But honestly without grace obedience is impossible.. It's only because of what he did can we do.. Are we to obey the word of God. Of course we are.. How ?? Through grace.. We have to have the understanding that without grace we can do nothing.. It's impossible to not be fornicators, it's impossible to not covet, it's impossible to not be angry.. That's who we were.. Our nature as sinners.. But now Praise God we have a new nature.. We are the righteousness of God in Chris Jesus.. All because of Love.. Grace Grace Grace is everything..

No words or scripture can move me from this truth that I know.. Not because of head knowledge but because I am a walking miracle.

There's no argument (with me) when words like this are spoken.