In relation to the new testament, why would Jesus believe this did not apply?

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UndoubtingThomas said:
Doesn't this go against the idea that God shouldn't need to prove anything to us? Could God not have protected Jesus from harm?
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Jesus asked him to protect him from harm, Yet also said not his will but Gods will be done.

So why did The Father not protect hm?
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
I agree victory belongs to the Lord our God who is the father of creation including Jesus. There are no partners to the Creator. Consider that while you stand and look out into the world, God is in you and each person you see. Each person is God's manifestation, proof of His existence. To claim Jesus was God claims God was not in any other living being.
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What? This makes no sense.

And God is not in every being, Where did you get that information?
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
This gives the term 'king' a human face. What does deliver a king, is God. In my mind, what this says is, don't rely on man for deliverance from God.

In revelation, we are told a new name will be given which will not be known to us.
Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’
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How could god take care of the sin issue, Unless he became human? How could he prove Satan was a liar and deceiver, unless he became human? How could he prove his unfailing glove for his creation, unless he became human?
 
Another member claimed Jesus was God yet if that's true God asking God for protection seems to be an error.

I cannot speak for the reason in certainty but if no man is permitted to die for another man's sin (Deut 24:16), I would attribute Jesus's death to his own sin. If 24:16 was not from God but from man, then it's possible a man could die for another man's sins if God willed it to be. If 24:16 was from man, the rest of the old testament would also be in question.
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
Another member claimed Jesus was God yet if that's true God asking God for protection seems to be an error.

I cannot speak for the reason in certainty but if no man is permitted to die for another man's sin (Deut 24:16), I would attribute Jesus's death to his own sin. If 24:16 was not from God but from man, then it's possible a man could die for another man's sins if God willed it to be. If 24:16 was from man, the rest of the old testament would also be in question.
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every man must die for his own sin, He can not die for another mans sin, because he is guilty of sin himself. It takes an innocent person to die for the sin of another.

That is what the sacrificial system taught. That an innocent had to shed his blood for the sins of the guilty.

So if Jesus was guilty of sin Your right, he could not die for anyone else's sin, but only his own, and he will end up in eternal darkness, because even his physical death could not restor him to God,

But if he was perfect. He could die for someone else's sin, and as God, he could die for everyone else's sin. and only as God could he die the proper death in order to redeem everyone else to God.
 
Interesting. Thou shall not kill says human sacrifice is off limits. For an innocent to feel pain for those around him, he'd need to be able to see their sin. According to Corinthians, helping a sinner is forbidden while they deny they are in sin. Our eyes judge them upon sight and God judges them through our walking away.

5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are outside? Do not ye judge them that are within?
5:13 But them that are outside God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
Interesting. Thou shall not kill says human sacrifice is off limits. For an innocent to feel pain for those around him, he'd need to be able to see their sin. According to Corinthians, helping a sinner is forbidden while they deny they are in sin. Our eyes judge them upon sight and God judges them through our walking away.

5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are outside? Do not ye judge them that are within?
5:13 But them that are outside God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
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You were born dead because of sin. And you will remain dead unless you are made alive, Because of atonement and redemption.

No man can redeem your sin, You are thus left on your own.

God did give you a law, and said if you want to get right with me obey every word in this law. But we all have sinned and fall short of that requirement.

so apart from the lamb of God, You have no hope. no one does.


 
eternally-gratefull said:
every man must die for his own sin, He can not die for another mans sin, because he is guilty of sin himself. It takes an innocent person to die for the sin of another.

That is what the sacrificial system taught. That an innocent had to shed his blood for the sins of the guilty.

So if Jesus was guilty of sin Your right, he could not die for anyone else's sin, but only his own, and he will end up in eternal darkness, because even his physical death could not restor him to God,

But if he was perfect. He could die for someone else's sin, and as God, he could die for everyone else's sin. and only as God could he die the proper death in order to redeem everyone else to God.
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This helps me so much!
Thank you for this ❤️❤️
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
Why would God be tested by satan in the desert?
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God made satan ruler of this current age on earth in the past
Adam choice to follow satan and not God. Sounds weird but Jesus had
to quillify to take over this worlds physical kingdoms away from satan.

That is why right afterwards he started proclaiming the coming kingdom of God.
where he would be a king over all the earth. He proved he would do Gods bidding

It was a done deal, The [Government of God] would be coming to earth,
but Christ still had to die of our sins and healing.

God allotted 6000 years to man going his way, and influenced by the devil.
but the 7th or the 1000 years of Christ on earth will be hear very soon. With
Satan locked-up, That God forces him to rest from deceiving the nations then.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
You were born dead because of sin. And you will remain dead unless you are made alive, Because of atonement and redemption.

No man can redeem your sin, You are thus left on your own.

God did give you a law, and said if you want to get right with me obey every word in this law. But we all have sinned and fall short of that requirement.

so apart from the lamb of God, You have no hope. no one does.


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The issue with the ideas you present is with the reliance on another god besides the I AM. To me, this violates the commandments. From your argument, it may be you do not share this opinion.
 
prove-all said:
God made satan ruler of this current age on earth in the past
Adam choice to follow satan and not God. Sounds weird but Jesus had
to quillify to take over this worlds physical kingdoms away from satan.

That is why right afterwards he started proclaiming the coming kingdom of God.
where he would be a king over all the earth. He proved he would do Gods bidding

It was a done deal, The [Government of God] would be coming to earth,
but Christ still had to die of our sins and healing.

God allotted 6000 years to man going his way, and influenced by the devil.
but the 7th or the 1000 years of Christ on earth will be hear very soon. With
Satan locked-up, That God forces him to rest from deceiving the nations then.
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The issue with these ideas is that the Christ of God does not die and Deut: 24:16 which denies one man from dying for another man's sins. When we die, our spirit returns to God. The resurrection was a demonstration for us.

1 Corinthians 3:16Verse Concepts

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
 
Hi Thomas,

I don't want to assume anything so I'll start with the beginning. Have you heard the Gospel? Have you read the New Testament? Do you consider yourself a Christian?

If your answer to all three is yes, in your own words - what is the Gospel, the good news that forgives our sin and saves us?
 
The record of the nation agreeing to terms before the I AM is recorded. This was done so that none could refute yet there is refuting even today. What would be the purpose if when done once, it did not convince men? We believe a covenant with Noah and Abraham without evidence beyond the written Word by faith. This is the proof of His love for us and it is also the explanation given as to the reason for the covenants as I understand them.
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
The record of the nation agreeing to terms before the I AM is recorded. This was done so that none could refute yet there is refuting even today. What would be the purpose if when done once, it did not convince men? We believe a covenant with Noah and Abraham without evidence beyond the written Word by faith. This is the proof of His love for us and it is also the explanation given as to the reason for the covenants as I understand them.
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Hi Thomas,


I'm not sure if your responding to me or not so let me ask again because this doesn't answer my questions.


Have you heard the Gospel? Have you read the New Testament? Do you consider yourself a Christian?


If your answer to all three is yes, in your own words - what is the Gospel, the good news that forgives our sin and saves us?
 
UndoubtingThomas said:
I found this in Corinthians. Which beings do you believe God to be in?1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"
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Okay, so obviously you didn't like my questions.


How about these 2 questions? Have you been born-again? Is Jesus your Savior?


The only way the Holy Spirit comes to lives within us is when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ by Grace through faith. We believe He died on the cross to forgive us of sins and to save us for all eternity.


I'm guessing your answers are no, no and no to the last questions. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like you've not been born again and Jesus isn't your Savior or Lord.
 
Desertsrose said:
Hi Thomas,

I don't want to assume anything so I'll start with the beginning. Have you heard the Gospel? Have you read the New Testament? Do you consider yourself a Christian?

If your answer to all three is yes, in your own words - what is the Gospel, the good news that forgives our sin and saves us?
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I am familiar with the gospels both the cannon and parts that did not make it into the cannon. The gospel is a man made doctrine assembled for a purpose. Whether news is good or not is relative to the person as there are many perspectives from which to see it. I consider myself a man of faith. I was raised Catholic but left the church in my teens. I have a variety of perspectives to draw from and although I tend to speak plainly, there is only love in my tone. I would ask, would you define the term Christian according to your own understanding? If I have understanding, a Christian is a label for someone who believes that Jesus Christ is God.
 
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