In relation to the new testament, why would Jesus believe this did not apply?

[loveme1]

King James Bible

Matthew 17


1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

1 Men living in this perishable world will never be able to avoid sin , so sin is inevitability.
So His people living in this world should be saved---> figured such; there were sacrifice lamb, the priest , the men that were sanctified .
2 For our sake , to understand that Salvation is by God’s Grace alone , then God says that actually men need the savior , men need the redeemer and He is only God ( Isa 43:3 , 43:11 ,47:4 ,49:26 , 60:16 ) (Salvation should come from Him no one else can do).
3 Men were given time to verify themselves , were they really spiritually dead creatures that from their own will they would never be able to do anything that was worthy in the eyes of God ?( Isa64:6 ) , and it was proven that no men realized about it even the time given since OT ( and this is also the reason why should the redeemer come to us 2.000 years ago, why not since Noah, Abraham, Mosses ) .
4 the saves also figured as one who resurrect from dead.
5 when the time given to the men for verifying their spiritually dead was over , so God should transform to be the Messiah for manifesting the God’s Grace , that by then men understood “ Salvation is by God’s Grace alone “.

So the task for the Messiah / the Savior/ the Redeemer are point 1 and 4 above.


Summary; "Men ,You will never save yourself or others whatever effort you may try, cause the salvation is only by God’s grace (Eph2:8) , that is what I want to demonstrate to you, I will be killed and three days later I shall resurrect from dead that you may know : the sacrifice blood is my blood = God blood , the priest is me as manifestation of God, the man who is sanctified will be acted by Me that shows you if the salvation is only for the chosen ( not man who says want , but only he or she whom the heart is made to want /written in the book of life before the creation of the world /the spirits which were sent by God from eternal realm to this perishable realm for wandering/sojourning) , then by this event comes to pass you will understand that the salvation is only by God’s Grace, and you that believe (believe if this event is really manifestation of God’s grace ) is the winner you shall be resurrected too in the last day, and you that don’t believe you are the loser cause you will surely say that I am not God Himself , and consider Me as a created being as you are , then if I am a created being surely I am spiritually dead too as you are then I shall reach My salvation too by this event( through this event I shall pay my own sins) means this event surely not a manifestation of God’s Grace or there is no premise “salvation is only by God’s Grace “ and every one shall pay their sins by their own effort , then why can’t you fulfill the Torah laws? , why am I said savoir? (Luk2:11), why am I said Redeemer? (Eph1:7), you that don’t believe you are really a loser certainly you are walking to the lof “.


Isa43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee


Isa43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior


Isa47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel


Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.


Rev1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood


Rev5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation




Luk2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord


Eph1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Hence by His demonstration from that day men began to know that the salvation is only by God Grace by this

Regarding the tasks of a messiah mentioned, the term 'raise from the dead', if someone is depressed because of their beliefs and hears news that changes there beliefs and enlivens them, is this not the same? Is not 'giving sight to the blind' the same as sharing knowledge with someone who lacks understanding? The terms 'healing of the sick and lame' the same as giving counsel so that ones life can return to normal? The correlation between some miracles noted and what we term today as psychological treatment have similar results for returning the 'dead to life / depressed' back to the living.

Walking on water = solving problems without difficulty

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

Jesus was both and and God,He is the same God today. He didn't have a connection with God,He was and is God.

There seems to be a disconnect between understanding creation and how Jesus fits into the picture. Creation starts when you open your eyes. Upon first light, the room you fell asleep in is created in front of you. As you move, your home is created in front of you. When you travel around a street corner, your world is created for you. Your eyes are a witness to creation including all the men, women and children. This would include Jesus. We are all created by God as we are spirits clothed by Him with skin. Our skin did not exist until Adam and Eve were clothed after having been cast from Eden.

Genesis
3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the "I AM" God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

How you see Jesus in the flesh is the same as how you see your neighbor. As a manifestation created by God.

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

This is the root of the issue in my opinion.

Jesus says it Himself, that the scripture speaks of Him. The OT. So if you don't see Him all over it, you don't understand it correctly. How can you talk about what you don't understand, then? It is the Spirit that opens up the Word in our minds and heart, and if you don't believe Christ, you don't have the Spirit.

Answer: Messiah comes from the Hebrew word mashiach and means “anointed one” or “chosen one.” The Greek equivalent is the word Christos or, in English, Christ. The name “Jesus Christ” is the same as “Jesus the Messiah.” In biblical times, anointing someone with oil was a sign that God was consecrating or setting apart that person for a particular role. Thus, an “anointed one” was someone with a special, God-ordained purpose.

Christ is not a person according to this definition.

 

[posthuman]

Creation starts when you open your eyes.

so the universe was destroyed when the first blind man was born . . ?

when i blink, the stars fall apart?

a man who sees stands next to a blind man and they face the mountains - there are simultaneously no mountains, and there are mountains?

solipsism only works if you are the only thing that exists - suppose you and i pass each other on the street. we both agree that each other exists because we are both experiencing each other at a moment in time. then you turn a corner and i turn another one - you say i no longer exist, but i say you no longer exist. who is correct? we can't both be - so one of us is deceived, which means we are both deceived, because the one who is deceived believed the other existed, therefore neither of us ever existed at all. the whole epistemology is wrecked as soon as there is an interaction between any two living beings.

your retort will be: it is relative, for me you existed for a moment, but no longer do, and for you i existed for a moment, but no longer do. you say: there are no absolutes.

but the statement "there are no absolutes" is an absolute -- your own philosophy refutes itself. existence that ceases to exist is no existence at all; it is an illusion & deception - you are calling God evil at best - imaginary at worst.

Einstein: there must be an absolute time
Heisenberg: absolute time requires an absolute observer

omniscient God holds all things together because He is omniscient & omnipresent, observing and remembering all things. you do not hold all things together by observing them: God does. God does not cease to exist when your thoughts pass by Him; you do not cease to exist because He does not forget you.

God is not the passing fancy of your imagination or the lambency of amusement passing across your eyes. he is God, the I AM, who is, who was, who will be - who does not change, who, before all things, WAS and IS.

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

UndoubtingThomas that is an interesting nickname because it is Thomas who said to our Lord Jesus:

John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

This I cannot argue with except to say we are told in revelation that his name will be a new name. If you're looking for Jesus and not his attributes, you may be looking for the wrong man. Christ by definition is linked to a physical person rather than being seen as a state of being for us to aspire to. The head of man is Christ and the head of Christ is God according to scripture.

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

Christ of God,wasn't this term thrown around by a banned member? Hmmm.

It is foolish to believe banning serves any purpose outside of injuring oneself. Knowledge comes to those who's ears are willing to hear.

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

No,what you're saying is all truth is relative and nothing is absolute.I can believe I can fly from a 10 story building,the absolute truth is Im going to be dead upon landing. You can know the truth,it is absolute. A nine may look like a six,but the absolute truth is its one or the other,it cannot be both.Truth is not relative. God is the Creator,Jesus became a man,saved us from sin and went back to heaven. He will save if we believe in Him. You're complicating the truth with a lot of fluff and nonsense.

Truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs. Evidenced by the existence of multiple religious doctrines.

 

[posthuman]

Truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs. Evidenced by the existence of multiple religious doctrines.

That's only 'evidenced' if you simultaneously hold that all are true - which is to hold that none are true, that there is no truth, that all things are lies.

Which is, as you have explained to us, your position, is it not? That you have exchanged the Truth for a lie?

 

[posthuman]

Truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs. Evidenced by the existence of multiple religious doctrines.

i taught a math class. i gave out a test - i asked the students to find the solution to an equation; i said "what is X ?"

i had 30 students; i got 18 different answers.

you say: "X is 18 different things"

i say: "you flunk. take this class again next semester"

you say: "this class doesn't exist, this university doesn't exist, because i drove out of the parking lot"

guess what?

you get no degree. your qualification does not exist. you remain unqualified, and no matter what you tell yourself, it's neither your opinion nor experience that makes the difference in whether you are qualified or not; it's the opinion & experience of those who test you.

 

[posthuman]

It is foolish to believe banning serves any purpose outside of injuring oneself.

suppose a room is full of poisonous gas, and i purge it so that the air is clean.

you just said i've injured myself by preventing my death.

guess what?

F

 

[kaylagrl]

1 Men living in this perishable world will never be able to avoid sin , so sin is inevitability.
So His people living in this world should be saved---> figured such; there were sacrifice lamb, the priest , the men that were sanctified .
2 For our sake , to understand that Salvation is by God’s Grace alone , then God says that actually men need the savior , men need the redeemer and He is only God ( Isa 43:3 , 43:11 ,47:4 ,49:26 , 60:16 ) (Salvation should come from Him no one else can do).
3 Men were given time to verify themselves , were they really spiritually dead creatures that from their own will they would never be able to do anything that was worthy in the eyes of God ?( Isa64:6 ) , and it was proven that no men realized about it even the time given since OT ( and this is also the reason why should the redeemer come to us 2.000 years ago, why not since Noah, Abraham, Mosses ) .
4 the saves also figured as one who resurrect from dead.
5 when the time given to the men for verifying their spiritually dead was over , so God should transform to be the Messiah for manifesting the God’s Grace , that by then men understood “ Salvation is by God’s Grace alone “.

So the task for the Messiah / the Savior/ the Redeemer are point 1 and 4 above.


Summary; "Men ,You will never save yourself or others whatever effort you may try, cause the salvation is only by God’s grace (Eph2:8) , that is what I want to demonstrate to you, I will be killed and three days later I shall resurrect from dead that you may know : the sacrifice blood is my blood = God blood , the priest is me as manifestation of God, the man who is sanctified will be acted by Me that shows you if the salvation is only for the chosen ( not man who says want , but only he or she whom the heart is made to want /written in the book of life before the creation of the world /the spirits which were sent by God from eternal realm to this perishable realm for wandering/sojourning) , then by this event comes to pass you will understand that the salvation is only by God’s Grace, and you that believe (believe if this event is really manifestation of God’s grace ) is the winner you shall be resurrected too in the last day, and you that don’t believe you are the loser cause you will surely say that I am not God Himself , and consider Me as a created being as you are , then if I am a created being surely I am spiritually dead too as you are then I shall reach My salvation too by this event( through this event I shall pay my own sins) means this event surely not a manifestation of God’s Grace or there is no premise “salvation is only by God’s Grace “ and every one shall pay their sins by their own effort , then why can’t you fulfill the Torah laws? , why am I said savoir? (Luk2:11), why am I said Redeemer? (Eph1:7), you that don’t believe you are really a loser certainly you are walking to the lof “.


Isa43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee


Isa43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior


Isa47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel


Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.


Rev1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood


Rev5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation




Luk2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord


Eph1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Hence by His demonstration from that day men began to know that the salvation is only by God Grace by this

Regarding the tasks of a messiah mentioned, the term 'raise from the dead', if someone is depressed because of their beliefs and hears news that changes there beliefs and enlivens them, is this not the same? Is not 'giving sight to the blind' the same as sharing knowledge with someone who lacks understanding? The terms 'healing of the sick and lame' the same as giving counsel so that ones life can return to normal? The correlation between some miracles noted and what we term today as psychological treatment have similar results for returning the 'dead to life / depressed' back to the living.

Walking on water = solving problems without difficulty

No,God did miracles then and He can and does do them now. Speak to any missionary and they will tell you things that will curl your hair concerning miracles as opposed to what witch doctors do. Ive heard some amazing stories. We dont have to explain away miracles,God is willing and able to do what He has done through time.

 

[kaylagrl]

Truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs. Evidenced by the existence of multiple religious doctrines.

No,multiple religious doctrines show satan is good at doing his job. If truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs then every belief is right and none are wrong,this is not possible.

 

[pottersclay]

Best to be silent and considered a fool , than to speak and remove all doubt.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

Truth is relative to the position taken by held beliefs. Evidenced by the existence of multiple religious doctrines.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus (in John 14:6).

Jesus didn't say "I am one of many ways, a truth depending on what you already believe, and a certain lifestyle you can choose if the others don't work out for you." He said, "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life."

The existence of multiple religions doesn't mean there are many truths; it means there are many ways for man to go his own (wrong) way, create his own "truths" (lies), and lead his own "life" (death) apart from Jesus.