Is God one or is He three?

tylerbones1313 · May 2, 2022

Help to answer this question using such scriptures as:

John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (This scripture says that God purchased the church but we all know is Christ who shed his blood) (scriptures such as this is the reason for the title of this thread)

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; (in some circles they say that the Trinity was discussing the formation of man)

I understand that this is a difficult subject for most to discuss. So I asked please lay aside any preconceived notion of whether or not you are Trinitarian, Baptist Oneness Pentecostal, Catholic or any other religion. Seek the guidance from God in prayer to answer this thread. Thank you all for your wonderful replies and God bless.

JaumeJ · May 2, 2022

God is One as taught by Jesus Yeshua in the Old and New Testaments.

Deuteronomy · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

Hello Tylerbones1313, the answer to your question is "yes" (IOW, God is, in different senses, of course, both one and three).

The church formulated the doctrine of the Trinity to circumscribe and safeguard the truth (or better, "mystery") that the Bible teaches us about the nature of God/of the Godhead, not explain it, because that is simply beyond any of us (at least while we remain in this state anyway, as finite beings).

The Trinity states that God is one Divine "Being" who has and who always will exist as three Divine "Persons", and the evidence for our understanding that this is indeed the case/the Biblical truth about His true nature begins for us in the opening chapter Genesis.

Genesis 1

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

The opening of John's Gospel is also interesting to note in regard to this topic (and is, like the verse that you posited for us from John 10, part of that which we use to correctly reveal what the Bible is actually saying concerning this mystery).

Here it is.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - here's an enjoyable little video from our friends at Lutheran Satire on what the Trinity is not, and also, why Trinitarian analogies always far short of their intended mark.

Enjoy

Magenta · May 3, 2022

God the Father of us.
God the Son as us.
God the Holy Spirit in us.

Bingo · May 3, 2022

Magenta said:

"Amen"

Nehemiah6 · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

Short answer: BOTH. See Matthew 28:19.

Live4Him2 · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

"I and my Father are one. " (John 10:30)

And, yet, they are two:

"In the beginning was the Word, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. " (John 1:1)

Again:

"It is also written in your law, that THE TESTIMONY OF TWO MEN IS TRUE. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. " (John 8:17-18)

As far as Jesus and the Father being "one" is concerned, we need to consider the following:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE: I IN THEM, AND THOU IN ME, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:20-23)

When Jesus prayed that we may be "one", even as he and the Father are "one", was he praying that we would become God the Father, even as many allege that Jesus is God the Father?

Of course not.

Instead, he was praying that we would be "one", AS IN UNITED, as he and the Father are "one".

In other words, there are several instances in scripture where the word "one" does NOT mean a singularity.

Instead, it oftentimes means "united".

Here are some Biblical examples of this truth:

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4)

The underlying Hebrew word which is here translated as "God" is 'ĕlōhîm which is the PLURAL form of the Hebrew word 'ĕlôha:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h430/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Transliteration

'ĕlōhîm

Pronunciation

el-o-heem'

Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

Plural of אֱלוֹהַּ (H433)

Throughout the Old Testament, beginning with the very first verse of the Bible, God is presented to us in the PLURAL or as a PLURALITY.

How then can this PLURALITY be "one"?

Well, again, the answer is quite simple.

As I rightly mentioned earlier, there are several instances in scripture where the word "one" does NOT mean a "singularity", but instead it refers to some sort of "unity".

Before I cite you some additional examples of this truth, let's first look at the underlying Hebrew word which is translated as "one" in Deuteronomy 6:4.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h259/kjv/wlc/0-1/

The underlying Hebrew word which is translated as "one" in Deuteronomy 6:4 is 'eḥāḏ, and there are clearly instances where this Hebrew word is used in the Old Testament where it is NOT describing a "singularity", but rather a oneness as in "unity".

Here are a couple of examples:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one H259 flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

Here, TWO PEOPLE are said to be "one" (eḥāḏ) flesh.

Again, we read:

"And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, H259 and they have all one H259 language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Genesis 11:6)

Here, we have an example where the underlying Hebrew word eḥāḏ appears twice within the same verse, and where it clearly has TWO DIFFERENT MEANINGS within a single verse of scripture.

in the first instance, God describes A GROUP OF PEOPLE who were gathered together to build the tower of Babel as being "one", as in "united" in purpose.

In the second instance, God mentioned how this GROUP OF PEOPLE had "one" language, as in a SINGULARITY, before he confounded their speech.

Seeing how this same underlying Hebrew word can mean TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, context is very important.

Going back to Deuteronomy, we read:

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: " (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Again, here, a PLURAL "God" ('ĕlōhîm), or PLURALITY, or Godhead is said to be "one" (eḥāḏ) as in "united".

Then we also have this example from the New Testament:

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (I John 5:7)

Here, we see that “three are one” as in “united”.

Anyhow, when Jesus said “I and my Father are one”, he was NOT saying that he and the Father are the same person (for lack of a better word). Instead, he was saying that he and the Father were “united” in that he never said or did anything independently or apart from the Father.

“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” (John 5:19)

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” (John 5:30)

“Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.” (John 8:28)

Etc., etc., etc.

Live4Him2 · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

P.S.

If we simply read this verse in its fuller context, then we can plainly see that this "oneness" of which Jesus spoke was in direct correlation to him doing the works which his Father had showed him to do.

John chapter 10

[30] I and my Father are one.
[31] Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
[34] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
[35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
[36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
[37] If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
[38] But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Live4Him2 · May 3, 2022

While I have a moment, let me answer a question which some might have either now or somewhere down the line.

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)

If Jesus isn’t God the Father (and he isn’t), then why is he called “the everlasting Father” here in Isaiah?

Again, the answer is quite simple.

Please consider the following:

John chapter 14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
[5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Those who saw Jesus had seen the Father in the sense that Jesus only spoke the Father’s words and only did the works which his Father had shown him to do.

In other words, in his incarnation, Jesus was “the express image of his person” (Hebrews 1:3) or the perfect representation of the Father to this world in that, again, he only spoke that which he first heard his Father speak and only did that which he first saw his Father do.

I have a 14-year-old son.

If he only spoke that which I speak, and if he only did that which I do, then he could rightly tell people that to hear or to see him would be to hear or to see me in that he would be a perfect representation of me to others.

The same principle applies with Jesus and the Father.

Ruby123 · May 3, 2022

Magenta said:

I have never heard this written in this way but I really like it

LactoseIntolerant · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

The Father and Son are one in Purpose and Thought

Duty as a Begotten Son to His God. Giving all Glory to His God
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

p_rehbein · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

..........sigh...........and again the argument begins.........goodness

p_rehbein · May 3, 2022

HOLY TRINITY:
Colossians 2:2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3)In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4) And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5) For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Kinda makes you want to rethink that idea about throwing out the Holy Trinity don't it? Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it surely should! Especially as Paul himself tells us that we (man) are a triune being. And, uh, er, gee, were we NOT created in HIS IMAGE?

1 Thessalonians 5:23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Holy Trinity:

God the Father: God OF man

God the Son: God as man

God the Holy Ghost: God within man

bluto · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

Very good question and I will explain why. In the preceding verses Jesus had just said the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father. Much more is implied that the Father and the Son are "one" in purpose. It's already a "given" that they are one in purpose. Many, including those in the cults support this "one in purpose argument" including those that are not in the cults.

The literal rendering of the verse reads, "I and the Father We are one," "One/hen" in Greek is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, desigh, will, and work. Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father." and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" (as stated) asserts their unity of essence or nature as IDENTICAL.

The Jews understood Jesus correctly which is why they stated at John 10:33, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (What's the blasphemy?), it certainly is not because they are one in purpose. "And because You, being a man make Yourself out God."

Now, from John 10:34-38 Jesus Christ is being His own "commentary." He brings up Psalm 82:6., why? This reference is to the judges, magistrates, and princes who were commissioned by God to rule. These Jews are not "literally" judges" but judging the people on behalf of God. That is why Psalm 82:7 states, "Nevertheless, you will die like the men that you are."

So what is the point that Jesus is making? You charge me with blasphemy based on My use of the title "Son of God"; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered "gods," how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Rebelfortruth · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

I love to say our Father spoke himself into physical form - therefore is called the Word of God.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God the same was in the beginning with God _ John 1:1-2

And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood and his name is called the Word of God _ Revelation 19:13

Jesus says the Father is spirit _ I look at our father as being like energy

Subhumanoidal · May 3, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

Help to answer this question using such scriptures as:

John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (This scripture says that God purchased the church but we all know is Christ who shed his blood) (scriptures such as this is the reason for the title of this thread)

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; (in some circles they say that the Trinity was discussing the formation of man)

I understand that this is a difficult subject for most to discuss. So I asked please lay aside any preconceived notion of whether or not you are Trinitarian, Baptist Oneness Pentecostal, Catholic or any other religion. Seek the guidance from God in prayer to answer this thread. Thank you all for your wonderful replies and God bless.

It's so difficult to discuss we have at least one new thread a week on it. For years now.

Magenta · May 3, 2022

Live4Him2 said:

Isaiah 9:6

Rebelfortruth · May 3, 2022

1

Rebelfortruth said:

I love to say our Father spoke himself into physical form - therefore is called the Word of God.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God the same was in the beginning with God _ John 1:1-2

And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood and his name is called the Word of God _ Revelation 19:13

Jesus says the Father is spirit _ I look at our father as being like energy

They only give you five minutes to edit an answer and I needed more time so I'm finishing what I needed to say in this reply to my own statement.
As science is energy cannot be created nor can energy be destroyed but energy can change forms I see God our Father as living energy. Energy that has a will, the ability to think, is self-aware, that can create and can destroy, energy that has power that man will never understand. Energy that can change forms and do I use the word spoke _ but somehow changed his own self into physical form and that physical form is what created all things physical / visible. And words that man could understand; Jesus is a direct clone of God our Father and that would make him and our Father one but separate.
Many feel that he is just a Son of God nor do many feel he is God of the Old Testament and yet Jesus says that our Father is "spirit" and "no man" has seen him. If God our Father is Spirit and no man has seen him, who was the old Patriots talking to, walking with - who did they see?
Jesus said before Abraham was I Am _ Thomas said to him my Lord and my God _ David said and the Lord said unto my Lord _ Isaiah said unto us a child is born unto us a son is given. He shall be called wonderful, counselor, heavenly Father, God Almighty, Prince of Peace.
I feel they are separate but one

LactoseIntolerant · May 4, 2022

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God (A), which he hath purchased with his own blood. (B)

Acts 20:28 is a controversial verse. See how many verse in how many bible translations
https://www.biblestudytools.com/acts/20-28-compare.html

Here is a summary from a different site
1. "The church of God which He purchased with the blood of His own (Son)."
2. "The church of God which He purchased with His own blood."
3. "The church of the Lord which He purchased with His own blood."
4. "The church of the Lord and God which He purchased with His own blood."

Trinitarians interprets (A) as directly associated (B) with 0 degree of separation. Christ's Blood (B) means Jesus is God ((A) - his church).
Consider the statement with 1 degree of separation - church of the Father, the blood of the Son. Is there capacity within the verses of such an understanding?

Consider meaning of (A) as a church of God
the gospel of the grace of God
Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

works to serve the living God.
the "temple" serviced by the high priests
Heb 9:11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

forbearance of God
Rom 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

house of God
Hebrews 10:19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God;

There is no need to contort the plainly written words/wisdoms for an inexplicable triune god.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
A little above
v21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

Isaiah 44:24 is part of a convo between God and his servant Jacob. Not the Father and the Son. No triunity here.

DavidTree · May 4, 2022

tylerbones1313 said:

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim. Elohim is Plural and the literal translation is Gods.

However, Elohim is One and the Hebrew word for 'One' is Echad which can and does mean a 'unified/united one' meaning = more then one but acting as ONE singular unit/whole/Being.

Elohim(God) told us that HE exists in THREE = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness". = 3x

These THREE are revealed to us in Genesis and the Gospel and Revelation.

If you remove any One of the THREE you have no Gospel and no Salvation.

Is God one or is He three?

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