And of course my music-nerd brain automatically cued up Newsong's "I'd start all over on Mars."
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And of course my music-nerd brain automatically cued up Newsong's "I'd start all over on Mars."
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gene77
Guest
And of course my music-nerd brain automatically cued up Newsong's "I'd start all over on Mars."
I tried looking up "Newsong/Start all over on Mars" on youTube, and all I get is a list of Bruno Mars songs :/ And, an Adam Levine-Lost Stars. Hahaha
I did "google" it then. And, I found it! Oh, wait, it's just the lyrics. No song.
When I gave these "examples", in every case I meant practictioners of these sins, not the ones who occasionally fall into it. BIG difference there!
Jesus sits at Matthew's table ONE TIME & everybody claims He did it on a regular basis....that just isn't true. Just because it's written that the Pharisees made these accusations of Jesus doesn't make them true either.
Meeting with someone to teach & preach truth is a far cry different than "fellowshipping" with them.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Read this article and carefully qualify those who you allow into your children's lives: http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/pro-gay-bias-in-study-of-pedophilia/
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VioletReigns
Guest
Here again... WWJD? It's written how the Lord befriended robbers, cheating tax collectors, drunks, prostitutes, all manner of sinful folk. And of course He was accused by the self-righteous Pharisees of being a drunkard and worse because Jesus associated with all sinners. But Jesus did not sin and they could not find any fault in Him. They had to make up deceitful accusations in order to arrest Jesus. But in truth, they could never find fault in Him because He never sinned.
We are Jesus' ambassadors in this world and must shine His light. We must associate with the sinners or else they cannot see Jesus working in our lives. Jesus is a friend of sinners; so must we also be.
Remember, it is the holy Spirit working in us, not we ourselves. Jesus didn't do His own will but the Father's will. We are not to take it upon ourselves to "save" anyone. But if the Lord God gives opportunity to show His light to a lost soul, we are to obey His Voice.
We are Jesus' ambassadors in this world and must shine His light. We must associate with the sinners or else they cannot see Jesus working in our lives. Jesus is a friend of sinners; so must we also be.
Remember, it is the holy Spirit working in us, not we ourselves. Jesus didn't do His own will but the Father's will. We are not to take it upon ourselves to "save" anyone. But if the Lord God gives opportunity to show His light to a lost soul, we are to obey His Voice.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
I don't know what WWJD means but certainly Jesus Christ invested time and energy into sinners with the expectation that they would repent and "sin no more."
In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).
Show me just one verse where Jesus Christ continued to befriend someone who rejected Him and God's holiness without repentance (apart from the predestined "son of perdition").
Show me just one verse where Jesus Christ taught that His followers are supposed to befriend dangerous immoral unrepentant people who refuse to change and subject their children to such people.
You can't because no such verse exists.
Inviting people to repent and be saved in preparation for life long sanctification toward glorification in God's kingdom does not equate to being a negligent fool and subjecting little children to unrepentant immoral people that statistically have a high rate of victimizing them.
Try to exercise wisdom as you live life so the people around you aren't harmed by your foolish choices.
In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).
Show me just one verse where Jesus Christ continued to befriend someone who rejected Him and God's holiness without repentance (apart from the predestined "son of perdition").
Show me just one verse where Jesus Christ taught that His followers are supposed to befriend dangerous immoral unrepentant people who refuse to change and subject their children to such people.
You can't because no such verse exists.
Inviting people to repent and be saved in preparation for life long sanctification toward glorification in God's kingdom does not equate to being a negligent fool and subjecting little children to unrepentant immoral people that statistically have a high rate of victimizing them.
Try to exercise wisdom as you live life so the people around you aren't harmed by your foolish choices.
Here again... WWJD? It's written how the Lord befriended robbers, cheating tax collectors, drunks, prostitutes, all manner of sinful folk. And of course He was accused by the self-righteous Pharisees of being a drunkard and worse because Jesus associated with all sinners. But Jesus did not sin and they could not find any fault in Him. They had to make up deceitful accusations in order to arrest Jesus. But in truth, they could never find fault in Him because He never sinned.
We are Jesus' ambassadors in this world and must shine His light. We must associate with the sinners or else they cannot see Jesus working in our lives. Jesus is a friend of sinners; so must we also be.
Remember, it is the holy Spirit working in us, not we ourselves. Jesus didn't do His own will but the Father's will. We are not to take it upon ourselves to "save" anyone. But if the Lord God gives opportunity to show His light to a lost soul, we are to obey His Voice.
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AbbeyJoy
Guest
Yeah you can I mean Jesus Hanged with the sinners, you don't have to agree with them but it's ok to be friends with them.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
And only one of those two sinners Jesus was crucified with is still his friend. Do the math.
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AbbeyJoy
Guest
[h=1]Mark 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners[/h]13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" -Matthew 7:16-23
"Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." -1 Corinthians 5:6-7
“If your brother sins, go and show him [or her] his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." -Matthew 18:15-17
"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one." 1 Corinthians 5:11
"Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." -1 Corinthians 5:13
Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality [instructions to elders]. -1 Timothy 5:20-21.
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. -1 John 3:4-10
Etc... etc... etc...
As stated with respect to the teaching of Christ and the apostles: "His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15)."
It is in scripture we find the proper relationship between God's moral law and His agape love. Two equal and opposite dangers must be avoided:
1. Legalism effectively ousts agape love as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life by reducing both to obedience or conformity to a set of external commands or rules (after the manner of the scribes and Pharisees in the gospels).
2. Its opposite, antinomianism, ousts God's moral law as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life. Antinomianism is heresy that tells Christians it's OK to forget about God's law and concentrate solely on agape love... a course which is a justification for degeneration and immoral licence, such as homosexual marriage, rather than promoting the true Christian liberty (i.e. freedom from sin).
The Gospel of Jesus Christ and God's grace in Jesus Christ frees the Christian from both these erroneous tendencies but only if Christians respectfully strive to follow God's moral law and both practice and realize agape love in their lives.
Behaving like a negligent fool and putting other people (especially children) at risk of unrepentant immoral people makes you a partaker of the dark deeds they will do. Try to exercise some common sense and do read and apply the whole Bible not just a few parts that you like.
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" -Matthew 7:16-23
"Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." -1 Corinthians 5:6-7
“If your brother sins, go and show him [or her] his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." -Matthew 18:15-17
"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one." 1 Corinthians 5:11
"Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." -1 Corinthians 5:13
Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality [instructions to elders]. -1 Timothy 5:20-21.
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. -1 John 3:4-10
Etc... etc... etc...
As stated with respect to the teaching of Christ and the apostles: "His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15)."
It is in scripture we find the proper relationship between God's moral law and His agape love. Two equal and opposite dangers must be avoided:
1. Legalism effectively ousts agape love as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life by reducing both to obedience or conformity to a set of external commands or rules (after the manner of the scribes and Pharisees in the gospels).
2. Its opposite, antinomianism, ousts God's moral law as a dynamic of the gospel and the Christian life. Antinomianism is heresy that tells Christians it's OK to forget about God's law and concentrate solely on agape love... a course which is a justification for degeneration and immoral licence, such as homosexual marriage, rather than promoting the true Christian liberty (i.e. freedom from sin).
The Gospel of Jesus Christ and God's grace in Jesus Christ frees the Christian from both these erroneous tendencies but only if Christians respectfully strive to follow God's moral law and both practice and realize agape love in their lives.
Behaving like a negligent fool and putting other people (especially children) at risk of unrepentant immoral people makes you a partaker of the dark deeds they will do. Try to exercise some common sense and do read and apply the whole Bible not just a few parts that you like.
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Some here will post scripture confident in their own righteousness. As a believer, you are called to be more loving to sinners than sinners are to sinners. If you cannot greet a gay person or accept a friendship with them, then you are showing less love than many who do not even believe.
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AbbeyJoy
Guest
We had a gay man who came to our church , most people accept him and encourages him and prays for him, but the others criticized him so he stopped coming, he he admit he wanted to be free but was afraid of church gave it another try and some people chased him away...it was disappointing when some church people are so full of themselves and doesn't help him...
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
But should you let an unrepentant pedophile molest your children? Should you put innocent people at risk of unrepentant sexually immoral predators? Is that what Jesus instructed and modeled for His disciples to do?
Obviously NOT.
You might want to read the posts in the thread and consider what's being communicated before blurbing.
Family Research Council - "Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children."
Of course, you're not really living what you preach. How many newly paroled unrepentant homosexual pedophiles have you befriended? Let me guess: zero. But then, that's the point.
No one is saying don't evangelize the lost (including the sexually immoral). But "as a believer," you are called to be wise and discerning and not act negligently or irresponsibly that ends up in other people being victimized.
You just glossed right over all of that; however, and alluded that anyone who points this out is "confident in their own righteousness" which was ignorant and hypocritically self-righteous of you.
Obviously NOT.
You might want to read the posts in the thread and consider what's being communicated before blurbing.
Family Research Council - "Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children."
Of course, you're not really living what you preach. How many newly paroled unrepentant homosexual pedophiles have you befriended? Let me guess: zero. But then, that's the point.
No one is saying don't evangelize the lost (including the sexually immoral). But "as a believer," you are called to be wise and discerning and not act negligently or irresponsibly that ends up in other people being victimized.
You just glossed right over all of that; however, and alluded that anyone who points this out is "confident in their own righteousness" which was ignorant and hypocritically self-righteous of you.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
I agree with part of what you say, but the question I would ask to you is;
How do you know which ones have repented, and which ones have not ?
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agirlandherguitar
Guest
Short answer: Yes, it is okay.
Jesus associated with all kinds of people many would consider sinners who lived unacceptable lifestyles. His own disciples raised their eyebrows at him when they saw him talking to a Samaritan woman. Matthew was a tax collector. Who want's to eat and drink with a tax collector? And Simon the zealot? Another word for "fanatic" and probably had a violent history. Yet they sat and prayed with Jesus.
If we are called to be like Jesus then we extend our grace to all people in all walks of life. If we only associate with Christians then you won't get past your comfortable little bubble. Sometimes being a Christian means you have to be uncomfortable and take risks.
If we live right by God and have a relationship with him then others will see that and they will crave that too. If they don't, then they don't. It's not up to us to save somebody's soul, only God can do that. We are the ones who light them in the right direction.
So be friends with them. Don't preach at them. Just be friends and show them what love and grace looks like, the kind of love and grace Jesus has shown us time and time again.
Jesus associated with all kinds of people many would consider sinners who lived unacceptable lifestyles. His own disciples raised their eyebrows at him when they saw him talking to a Samaritan woman. Matthew was a tax collector. Who want's to eat and drink with a tax collector? And Simon the zealot? Another word for "fanatic" and probably had a violent history. Yet they sat and prayed with Jesus.
If we are called to be like Jesus then we extend our grace to all people in all walks of life. If we only associate with Christians then you won't get past your comfortable little bubble. Sometimes being a Christian means you have to be uncomfortable and take risks.
If we live right by God and have a relationship with him then others will see that and they will crave that too. If they don't, then they don't. It's not up to us to save somebody's soul, only God can do that. We are the ones who light them in the right direction.
So be friends with them. Don't preach at them. Just be friends and show them what love and grace looks like, the kind of love and grace Jesus has shown us time and time again.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
We have some homosexuals attend the church I'm a member of. But we have a LOT more EX-homosexuals that attend the church I'm a member of many of whom are now married to a member of the opposite sex and living moral Christian family lives.
Fortunately, the church has strong policies on vetting its members before they can work with minors. And guess what? A number of the new members gravitating toward children's ministries and attending the training in preparation of entering those ministries were discovered to be homosexuals with serious criminal records of abusing male children. They were, of course, told they could NOT be a part of those ministries. In a couple cases, law enforcement was called because they were violating the terms of their probation and they were taken away by law enforcement.
While their plight is not that of most homosexuals, statistically the percentage is higher from that demographic and Christians and especially Christians in leadership have a serious responsibility, commanded in scripture, to exercise wisdom and protect their families and the flock from the wolves even when they dress themselves in sheep's clothing.
Your friend would have been welcome at the church I attend; however, as a person engaged in serious sexual immorality he would also have been counseled toward salvation and sanctification. It sounds like your church has no ministry for people engaged in homosexual behaviors. Instead of complaining about the people at your church, why don't you start one?
There is definitely a healthy balance in scripture between God's holiness and God's love... something Jesus demonstrated perfectly in his ministry on earth which is often taken out of context by both legalists and antinomianists (though the latter have no idea that's what the worldview they are espousing is).
Fortunately, the church has strong policies on vetting its members before they can work with minors. And guess what? A number of the new members gravitating toward children's ministries and attending the training in preparation of entering those ministries were discovered to be homosexuals with serious criminal records of abusing male children. They were, of course, told they could NOT be a part of those ministries. In a couple cases, law enforcement was called because they were violating the terms of their probation and they were taken away by law enforcement.
While their plight is not that of most homosexuals, statistically the percentage is higher from that demographic and Christians and especially Christians in leadership have a serious responsibility, commanded in scripture, to exercise wisdom and protect their families and the flock from the wolves even when they dress themselves in sheep's clothing.
Your friend would have been welcome at the church I attend; however, as a person engaged in serious sexual immorality he would also have been counseled toward salvation and sanctification. It sounds like your church has no ministry for people engaged in homosexual behaviors. Instead of complaining about the people at your church, why don't you start one?
There is definitely a healthy balance in scripture between God's holiness and God's love... something Jesus demonstrated perfectly in his ministry on earth which is often taken out of context by both legalists and antinomianists (though the latter have no idea that's what the worldview they are espousing is).
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Jesus answered your question. You can find His answer recorded in the New Testament by Matthew (see Matthew 7):
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits."
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits."
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Nice reply, and I knew that answer.
I was just asking you how do you know, for you mention newly paroled ones. Well if they just got out of prison how do you know at that time if they have repented or not, for they have not had time to prove they have yet.
Unless you like to go by studies taken like I know you do, because you post studies all the time.
Did you know that a study was done that out of all offenders, that sex offenders who take and complete their sex offender treatment programs are less likely to offend again out of all offenders.
Not too many people know this study was done, and the out come of it.
They are still told the media lies, like Nancy Grace that I dub a queen of lies who has ton's of followers who listen and believer her lies.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
I'm off to some outside activities so I'll have to reply in greater detail later but the church performs background checks on everyone (no exceptions) before they can assume any position of leadership or interact with children in any church role. Bye.
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." -Matthew 10:16
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." -Matthew 10:16
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blueorchidjd
Guest
I had a feeling something like this would be brought up.
Sometimes I feel gay people are the most receptive because they are the ones that are most hurt by the church?
Just a thought.
Sometimes I feel gay people are the most receptive because they are the ones that are most hurt by the church?
Just a thought.