Is Jesus a creature??

[Sound]

It repeatedly states throughout the Bible that Jesus was clearly a man. o_o
GOD gave is only begotten son, not calf or cub or piglet, but son. xD

It says men a buncha places I just dont want to find them at the moment.

 

[wakeup]

Sometimes yes , the amplified bible can be a very useful tool as instead of a choosing a single english word for whatever Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic word that was used, they take the time to give a fuller definition as words in greek and hebrew especially mean more than just the one word chosen.

And in regards to the answer your looking for, the passage tells us that Jesus is not a creature, in the context of the bible we see the fuller picture that Jesus is firstborn because he was born in the likeness of man through Mary, Firstborn of all creatures(not the firstborn creature). The Greek word used that is in this case translated "creature" by the KJV, means more than just that, it means the act of original formation which goes with the next verse that says that Jesus was involved in the original formation of EVERYTHING.

Jesus is not a created being, he is perfect, and because he is perfect he was able to die for our sins which is the core, the only truth that can save us.

He is obviously not the first baby born in this world.
You say he is not a created being; you are contradicting the scripture,for the scripture says creature. You need to search for the answer to this mystery if you are interested.
Or just let it be.

 

[wakeup]

thought you might actually listen to Bible scholars, what do you think GOD says of the subject?

I've given you BIBLE verses and definitions for the translated words, but in the end it is up to you and others who read to accept or reject the message in the words clearly written or to twist it into their own version of "reality"

do you think Jesus is a "creature"?

I believe what Paul says, for he has the holy spirit in him.

 

[wakeup]

here's a handy translation for the "jesus is a creature" crowd put together by The Watchtower Society (FREEMASONS):

John 1:1, "The word was a god"

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. The New World Translation
​

This is one of the most common verses of contention between the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians. Their false assumption is that Jesus is not God in flesh, but Michael the archangel who became a man. Therefore, since they deny that Jesus is divine, they have altered the Bible in John 1:1 so that Jesus is not divine in nature. The New World Translation has added the word "a" to the verse so it says, "...and the Word was a god." The correct translation for this verse is "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." This is how it is rendered in the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, ASV, RSV, etc.

~

" I am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our Masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to Masonry, and we also are Masons. I am a Freemason." Charles Taze Russell.


see this symbol in the corner?

~

The picture on the left is the cover of the recent book (1999) by Tim LaHaye called The Power of the Cross. The one on the right is a centuries old Masonic symbol and can be seen on an official site of the Knights Templar at http://www.korrnet.org/f&am/kt.htm

Thank you for those symbols zone, it will come in handy,because i am having a debate going with one of the jw teacher, it has been going for weeks now.

But what has this got to do with the question?

 

[wakeup]

If your cup of knowledge is full how can even God add to it?

perhaps pouring some out and waiting for God's answer might be a good idea?

You obviously did not understand what that scripture means,so you just use it for your defence against me. That scripture says; if you feed on spiritual food, christ will open your eyes,and give you understanding.

''wakeup''.

 

[wakeup]

Sorry to deviate slightly, but a Church of England minister wrote on another website

Anyone who thinks they have an understanding of the Trinity and the workings of it shows they nothing of the subject

I liked that quote

This is the only reason why they have to import in this doctrine; because they just could not understand this mystery of Christ and God, for over 1700yrs now. when Jesus shuts the door no one can open,whe he opens the door no one can shut.

 

[wakeup]

Does that same notion carry over to God's salvation through Christ, His plan of redemption, the putting away of all sin through the shedding of His blood, who eternal life and redemption comes from, how we receive grace through humility, how we are to worship God in spirit and truth, or concerning the gifts of the Spirit given to the church?

This man unfortunately does not know that we have been given the mind of Christ and we are to let this mind be in us as it was in Christ Jesus (Phil 2:5), that we are new creatures created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:24), that we have over 7,800 promises from God that are all yea and amen (2Cor 1:20), that we can have fellowship with the Father and the Son (1Jn 1:3), that we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth (Jn 16:13) and that God has begun a work in our lives and will perform it until the day of redemption (Phil 1:6).

Doesn't this man know that we are to be prepared to give answer to anyone who asks us of the hope that we have within, and that would include the Godhead (1Pt 3:15). To not have an understanding of the workings of the Godhead is to be ignorant, unprepared and not knowing the will of God (Rom 12:2, Eph 6:6). It would mean that we are not students of God's word and have no hunger for it or to be approved by it (2Tim 2:15).

How does this man treat these verses of inspired scripture within their context?

If you really have been given the mind of Christ; then why need help outside the word of God to find the answers. It is just like going to the rabies for help
,instead of staying with Jesus???

''wakeup''.

 

[wakeup]

Who really cares whether I or anyone else answers your questions but you? You are so self absorbed with having your questions answered that no one really cares what you think and those that respond to you are either doing it out of love or empathy because of your unbelief, and others are just waiting to be able to mock because they also live in unbelief.

As a true Christian you really should care for your bro,and sis, that attitude of i dont care, is not the spirit of love, but selfishness. Not trying to edify others, but only the group you are in. this is how they have become puddles in the landscape.

''wakeup''.

 

[Red33]

I'm Billy I m 7 years old
I say something like

My friend Bobbys Grandpa died but he isn't even sad, he said his Grandpa will be in Heaven with Jesus.......what does Bobby mean?

Well I guess we must asume that Bobby is also 7 and is saved if he believes his Grandpa is in Heaven

So 7 year old Bobby had a chat with his dad say about becoming a Christian

Bobby) Dad, my sunday school teacher was telling me that God sent his son Jesus to die for my sins and all I have to do is ask him into my life and I will be a Christian. Is that right dad? Can I ask Jesus, God's son into my life now please?

Bobbys dad) Well, there's more to it than that son, Jesus is actually God Himself and we have to believe that to become a Christian

Bobby) I don't understand dad, my Sunday school teacher told me Jesus was God's son, not God Himself

Bobbys dad) Well you see son, you have to realise that as Jesus has the nature of his Father and is the express image of his being and he said in John's Gospel-it's OK son, we'll start reading in the OT and I can explain the scriptures to you

Bobby) But I am confused now dad. My sunday school teacher told me Jesus was God's son, why are you telling me he is God (Dad sighs)

Bobbys dads) Well yes Jesus is God's son, but he is also God

Bobby) How come dad, I don't get it you are confusing me

Bobbys dad) But you see Bobby Jesus is part of the Trinity three people in one We have God his Father, Jesus who is also God, but also the son of God , and the Holy Spirit who is also God. God is three persons you see, not one

Bobby) No I don't understand dad, I only know I was told that Jesus was God's son(Dad sighs deeply)

Bobbys dad) But you have to believe Jesus is God himself Bobby, you cannot just believe he is God's son.

Bobby) But my sunday school teacher never told me Jesus was God dad

Bobbys dad) Well he should have explained all this to you Bobby

Jesus was set above the angels, his Father commanded us to worship him, you see God says only He must be worshipped. And then Jesus did refer to himself as the I Am in John's Gospel(Bobby is getting frustrated)

Bobby) What has I am got to do with Jesus being God's son and God Himself dad. When was Jesus set above the angels , my sunday school teacher told me it was simple to become a Christian, I don't understand now



Only one question

How in the world did Bobby become a Christian?

For any rule that applies to adults must apply to children

There are those that are 'dopey' and those that are 'jerky' but when you put them together they are nothing but 'turkey'.

 

[livingbygrace]

There are those that are 'dopey' and those that are 'jerky' but when you put them together they are nothing but 'turkey'.

And there are those who are the epitomy of why Christianity is so often seen as lacklustre, and not turned to by so many in society

For they do not understand that it is a humble and contrite heart that God desires, not one that considers itself superior in knowledge and understanding to most others

The result is a form of Godliness that has no power and is seen as weak

 

[Red33]

As a true Christian you really should care for your bro,and sis, that attitude of i dont care, is not the spirit of love, but selfishness. Not trying to edify others, but only the group you are in. this is how they have become puddles in the landscape.

''wakeup''.

Tell us of the group you are referring to and tell us that your statement doesn't apply to you and every poster on this site. I do not care to answer any of his incessant questions of unbelief that he brings to the table just to be contrary to the doctrine of Christ and other matters concerning the things of God. I will not give a person God's speed who outwardly denies that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Maybe you will coddle him in his unbelief but I have conviction from the scriptures not to. What do you think of that?

 

[wakeup]

Preaching the gospel to them that are lost is a beautiful thing because it involves the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father draws them to the Son, the Son shed His blood and paid for all their sins through death and the precious Holy Spirit convicts their heart that they might believe. It takes the Trinity to save the sinner, every sinner and it has always been that way, which even includes those that don't like to adhere to that doctrine. Go figure, the goodness of God.

I believe jesus is the son of God; v,s You believe jesus is God.
Jesus believe, he is the son of God. The pope believe Jesus is God.
Peter believe, Jesus is the son of God. THe born agains believe Jesus is God.
God says, he is my beloved son. Babylon the great believe Jesus is God
All the apostles believe Jesus is the
son of God.
AND THE WINNER IIIIIIIISS!!!

''wakeup''.

 

[livingbygrace]

Tell us of the group you are referring to and tell us that your statement doesn't apply to you and every poster on this site. I do not care to answer any of his incessant questions of unbelief that he brings to the table just to be contrary to the doctrine of Christ and other matters concerning the things of God. I will not give a person God's speed who outwardly denies that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Maybe you will coddle him in his unbelief but I have conviction from the scriptures not to. What do you think of that?

Your convictions are not based on the heart of sctipture. You do not understand the true heart of the Gospel

As for ideas contrary to the doctrine of Christ. I would be amazed if any discerning Christian did anything but dismiss such a comment from one who will not stand on the plain and continuous words of Christ.

And someone who has a belief of salvation which is not even written in the Bible

The true Christian from God's point of view and the one he is most pleased with is the Christian who only in their heart seeks glory for the God who loved them so ,much that he sent his son to die for them.

But some think that knowing the literal word well is enough to please God, what folly of man

God wants the heart, and he cannot have it if anyone is firstly intent on receiving praise from men

 

[Red33]

And there are those who are the epitomy of why Christianity is so often seen as lacklustre, and not turned to by so many in society

For they do not understand that it is a humble and contrite heart that God desires, not one that considers itself superior in knowledge and understanding to most others

The result is a form of Godliness that has no power and is seen as weak

The scriptures are right there for any of us to learn from by humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God and putting ourselves under a pastor-teacher that God has raised up for the church who has been called to preach and teach the word and doctrine and to edify God's body. I am just a lay person as I have mentioned many times before, but some like to be foolish and even lie about that. There is a reward for those who like to lie.

 

[livingbygrace]

The scriptures are right there for any of us to learn from by humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God .

I wpould agree with the above, but a person would need to humble themselves, and if they did that they could not then firstly be seeking the praise of man

As for lying. We both know you believe you have been raised up as a teacher/preacher of the word, why deny it?

If you believe God has raised you up for this work(as you surely do) do not deny what you believe God has called you to

 

[Red33]

Your convictions are not based on the heart of sctipture. You do not understand the true heart of the Gospel

As for ideas contrary to the doctrine of Christ. I would be amazed if any discerning Christian did anything but dismiss such a comment from one who will not stand on the plain and continuous words of Christ.

And someone who has a belief of salvation which is not even written in the Bible

The true Christian from God's point of view and the one he is most pleased with is the Christian who only in their heart seeks glory for the God who loved them so ,much that he sent his son to die for them.

But some think that knowing the literal word well is enough to please God, what folly of man

God wants the heart, and he cannot have it if anyone is firstly intent on receiving praise from men

If God raised me up to preach and sent me to your town, you would do everything in your power to keep people away from hearing anything that was being preached, would you? Would you be so bold as to touch the will of God in another's life that God has raised up? Would you point the finger and say this is not the true gospel being preached to you, this man is not of God and is a charlatan and only has head knowledge and does not know the heart of God. This man will only lead you astray from the one and only true God. Is that what's in your heart?

 

[Red33]

1Cor 1:26-29 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised , hath God chosen , yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are : 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence

 

[journey41]

I believe jesus is the son of God; v,s You believe jesus is God.
Jesus believe, he is the son of God. The pope believe Jesus is God.
Peter believe, Jesus is the son of God. THe born agains believe Jesus is God.
God says, he is my beloved son. Babylon the great believe Jesus is God
All the apostles believe Jesus is the
son of God.
AND THE WINNER IIIIIIIISS!!!

''wakeup''.

Whats written in the Bible!

 

[livingbygrace]

If God raised me up to preach and sent me to your town, you would do everything in your power to keep people away from hearing anything that was being preached, would you? Would you be so bold as to touch the will of God in another's life that God has raised up? Would you point the finger and say this is not the true gospel being preached to you, this man is not of God and is a charlatan and only has head knowledge and does not know the heart of God. This man will only lead you astray from the one and only true God. Is that what's in your heart?

I can say with full assurance that if you came to my town few would listen to you. For you would be speaking for yourself and not God

How can I say this?

Because you will not accept the plain and continuous statements of Christ as to what a person must believe concerning himself to have eternal life

Therefore it is UTTERLY IMPLOSSIBLE for you to be being led of the Holy Spirit, for he COULD NEVER contradict the plain and contionuous words of Christ

I would not speak against you, there would be no need. Your preaching would be seen as weak and lacklustre and would not have power ,for you cannot have power without the Holy Spirit

I have seen many preach and teach believing they have been raised up by God, they have displayed much pride and arrogance, the result is always the same, for their first concern from the heart is not for God to be glorified but for them to receive praise from men

 

[wakeup]

No, Jesus isn't a creature. He was never created, but as one of the three divine Persons of the Trinity, He has always existed. However, He was born on earth as a human, and so has briefly (for one human lifespan) been a creature... or partially one, since He was both God and man at the same time.

Jesus called us his bretheren: He is the first born of every creature.
This thing about Jesus is a creature, but he also is God?
He is a creature for a little while, but then he is also God?
This only tells me that there is confusion. There are holes in this doctrine that need to be patched up. Or just ignore. Thats what the christian world is doing. when we are in heaven, jesus will explain.

''wakeup''.