Is Jesus a creature??

[Devolution]

The scriptures are right there for any of us to learn from by humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God and putting ourselves under a pastor-teacher that God has raised up for the church who has been called to preach and teach the word and doctrine and to edify God's body. I am just a lay person as I have mentioned many times before, but some like to be foolish and even lie about that. There is a reward for those who like to lie.

Mark 4
24>Take heed what you hear, with what measure ye meet, it shall be measured to you, and to you that hear shall more be given.
25> For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
26> And He said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground,
27> And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, and he knoweth not how.
28> For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself, first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.





​

 

[loveschild]

Sometimes yes , the amplified bible can be a very useful tool as instead of a choosing a single english word for whatever Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic word that was used, they take the time to give a fuller definition as words in greek and hebrew especially mean more than just the one word chosen.

And in regards to the answer your looking for, the passage tells us that Jesus is not a creature, in the context of the bible we see the fuller picture that Jesus is firstborn because he was born in the likeness of man through Mary, Firstborn of all creatures(not the firstborn creature). The Greek word used that is in this case translated "creature" by the KJV, means more than just that, it means the act of original formation which goes with the next verse that says that Jesus was involved in the original formation of EVERYTHING.

Jesus is not a created being, he is perfect, and because he is perfect he was able to die for our sins which is the core, the only truth that can save us.

Aman preach it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[loveschild]

Preaching the gospel to them that are lost is a beautiful thing because it involves the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father draws them to the Son, the Son shed His blood and paid for all their sins through death and the precious Holy Spirit convicts their heart that they might believe. It takes the Trinity to save the sinner, every sinner and it has always been that way, which even includes those that don't like to adhere to that doctrine. Go figure, the goodness of God.

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. 1-2-3

Leave Red alone.
God bless you all!

 

[livingbygrace]

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. 1-2-3

Leave Red alone.
God bless you all!

I hope you stand on scripture

Because Red tells people who stand on the plain and continuous words of Christ for salvation that they are heretics, possessed by the spirit of antichrist, condemned and can have no eternal life

So, will you stand on the Bible and speak vociferousl
y against those who will not accept what Christ clearly and continuously stated was the belief needed in him to have eternal life?

 

[loveschild]

I hope you stand on scripture

Because Red tells people who stand on the plain and continuous words of Christ for salvation that they are heretics, possessed by the spirit of antichrist, condemned and can have no eternal life

So, will you stand on the Bible and speak vociferousl
y against those who will not accept what Christ clearly and continuously stated was the belief needed in him to have eternal life?

I spoke on seeing Red being bashed over a word trinity. Remember Satan and his demons are riding the backs of Christians filled with hate to attack other Christians.

 

[livingbygrace]

I spoke on seeing Red being bashed over a word trinity. Remember Satan and his demons are riding the backs of Christians filled with hate to attack other Christians.

And what is a person being driven by if they will not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ in the Gospels as to how a person must see him to have eternal life?

I can only assume that for consistency you would believe your above statement must apply to such people

 

[Red33]

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. 1-2-3

Leave Red alone.
God bless you all!

In your heart you know the truth concerning the Father and the Son, because God is alive in you through the Spirit. You have never allowed anyone to convince you otherwise because you have stood on the truth and you also know those who are of the truth. I worship the same Father and the same Son as you do by faith through the Holy Spirit, and that makes us one.

 

[loveschild]

In your heart you know the truth concerning the Father and the Son, because God is alive in you through the Spirit. You have never allowed anyone to convince you otherwise because you have stood on the truth and you also know those who are of the truth. I worship the same Father and the same Son as you do by faith through the Holy Spirit, and that makes us one.

God bless you my friend. I am sorry to see you attacked. Jesus said we will be attacked. All praise, all glory to the most high God!

 

[zone]

Thank you for those symbols zone, it will come in handy,because i am having a debate going with one of the jw teacher, it has been going for weeks now.

But what has this got to do with the question?

huh?
what on earth are you debating a JW for?
you both agree "jesus" was created.
maybe you are trying to decide whether your "jesus" is michael or not.
who knows.

OP: Re: Is Jesus a creature??

that's the question.
i posted the graphic and JW stuff for the edification of those who may weary in the struggle to keep the "jesus is a creature" crowd away from the flock.

the very fact the JWs (and mormons) are FREEMASONS with an agenda SHOULD twig anybody to send them (and their damnable heresies) packing. oh well

whatcha gonna do.

 

[unclefester]

So, will you stand on the Bible and speak vociferously against those who will not accept what Christ clearly and continuously stated was the belief needed in him to have eternal life?

And according to you, this belief needed is that Christ is not God ? He was perfect, sinless and without blame .....but was just a man chosen by God to be His Son and our Redeemer.....but is not God ? He and the Father are one ....but Christ is still not God ? If they are one, as Jesus said they are, does this mean that God is not God as well ? Is the Father "offended" when Jesus Christ is called God ?

 

[livingbygrace]

And according to you, this belief needed is that Christ is not God ? He was perfect, sinless and without blame .....but was just a man chosen by God to be His Son and our Redeemer.....but is not God ? He and the Father are one ....but Christ is still not God ? If they are one, as Jesus said they are, does this mean that God is not God as well ? Is the Father "offended" when Jesus Christ is called God ?

Firstly Christ continuously commanded a person to believe he was the son of God to have eternal life, he did not add to that
He did not discuss his nature, whether the Father preeexisted him or anything else

Secondlty no-one can produce one verse of scripture in the whole of the NT that states what people are demanding of others to have eternal life

Please Show me where Christ stated

Unless you believe I am God Himself you can have no eternal life

Please Show me where any writer in the NT stated

Unless you believe that Christ is God Himself you can have no eternal life

Please show me a verse of scripture where Christ stated

I am the one true God Himself or You must believe I am the one true God Himself

So people demand of others what is not even written in the NT

They have a theology of man and not a belief in the spirit filled Bible

No wonder Christianity is seen as weak and lacklustre to so many

In effect people believe in a salvation that is hinted at(according to their understanding) in the Bible, but the plain statements of requirement for salvation are not accepted

The fact this would discredit the spirit filled Bible does not seem to concern people, for they stand on and look to man and their natural reasoninig and understanding, how futile

 

[wakeup]

Tell us of the group you are referring to and tell us that your statement doesn't apply to you and every poster on this site. I do not care to answer any of his incessant questions of unbelief that he brings to the table just to be contrary to the doctrine of Christ and other matters concerning the things of God. I will not give a person God's speed who outwardly denies that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. Maybe you will coddle him in his unbelief but I have conviction from the scriptures not to. What do you think of that?

But i believe that Jesus is God, but he is not the father,he is the word of God and will always be the word of God. We worship jesus dont we? so because we worship him, he is God.This world worship the material things and that makes the material things their god. What ever is number one in ones heart,that is that pesons God.If one focus on making monye in ones life, then money is that persons God. Jesus is focused on his father, that makes his father his God.

''wakeup''.

 

[livingbygrace]

And according to you, this belief needed is that Christ is not God ? He was perfect, sinless and without blame .....but was just a man chosen by God to be His Son and our Redeemer.....but is not God ? He and the Father are one ....but Christ is still not God ? If they are one, as Jesus said they are, does this mean that God is not God as well ? Is the Father "offended" when Jesus Christ is called God ?

I am not going to get into anymore scripture quoting contests I believe all the scriptures have already been discussed in the past three weeks where this subject is concerned, but I will point out your misunderstanding of scripture in the above

Jesus said

That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one

John 17:22

So how can we the believers be one?

We can only be of one heart and one mind in the spirit. But we remain individual people. You cannot be me and I cannot be you

That they may be one AS we are one

 

[Forgiven66]

Jesus Christ is the Creator and God the Second Person of the Trinity.
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is No Saviour.
Isaiah 43:11
Jehovah here speaks and says there is no Saviour beside Him.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:11
Now if the Tanakh states that only God can be Saviour, would not this make Jesus Christ God.

Isaiah 9:6-7 calls Jesus Mighty God, and Everlasting Father. If I understand right Jehovah Witnesses teach that Mighty God, never refers to Jehovah. So I really am puzzled about Isaiah 10:21, for Jehovah is called Mighty God here.

If I read the following verse right God could not have a helper in Creation.
Thus saith the LORD, they Redeemer, and He that from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone: that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself.
Isaiah 44:24

According to this scripture God did not creat someone and then created everything else with that someone help. So as AnandaHya stated, Paul used the word prototokos inColossians 1:16 which we translate as firstborn. But this word doen't mean first created but instead--first in rank, pre-eminentome, heir. All believers in Christ are heir by adoption, but Christ who is eternal for He is the I Am (John 8:58). Yes the I Am (if I understand right the NWT translate this verse "I have been" yet the greek words Ego eimi is translated I Am evrywhere else in the Gospel of John in the NWT (John 4:26; 6:35,48,51; 10:7,11,14; 11:25; 14:6; 15:1,5; and John 18:5,6,8.)


I know you commented to AnandaHya something about not using a library, but many of these disagreements go to what does the Greek mean. So she had to do that to explained this.



​

 

[superdave5221]

Jesus called us his bretheren: He is the first born of every creature.
This thing about Jesus is a creature, but he also is God?
He is a creature for a little while, but then he is also God?
This only tells me that there is confusion. There are holes in this doctrine that need to be patched up. Or just ignore. Thats what the christian world is doing. when we are in heaven, jesus will explain.

''wakeup''.

Your questions have been answered many times, and yet you persist in ignoring the answers, and continuing to ask the same questions over and over. Why do you insist that our God, and His word is confusion? Is this preferable to the credible explanations that have been offered to explain the quoted scriptures within the context of the entire written word?

Our God is not a God of confusion, but a God of order.

Galatians 1: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who calledhttp://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-13 you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospelhttp://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-14-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusionhttp://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 and are trying to perverthttp://christianchat.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-16 the gospel of Christ.

To be honest, I would be astonished to find a person who has spent considerable time studying the bible in fellowship with Holy Spirit, who would even suggest that Jesus had been created.

I have asked you what your purpose is, and you have not answered. Are you trying to sow disunity and disorder among Christians? Are you bored and just enjoy being argumentative? Are you just looking for attention? Are you really that lacking in the knowledge of the word of God? What is the answer?

 

[zone]

This is the only reason why they have to import in this doctrine; because they just could not understand this mystery of Christ and God, for over 1700yrs now. when Jesus shuts the door no one can open,whe he opens the door no one can shut.

that passage is about eternal life, not HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE.

Jesus is THE DOOR (the strait gate into the Kingdom): when He opens, the sheep are safe and can go in and out:

John 10:9
"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

the key of David (see Luke 3 - geneology of Jesus), the RIGHT TO RULE and receive into His Kingdom was allegorically given to Peter based upon his profession of faith*

Isaiah 22:22
I will give him the key to the house of David--the highest position in the royal court. When he opens doors, no one will be able to close them; when he closes doors, no one will be able to open them. (NLT)

Revelation 3:7
“And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens. (ESV)

*
Matthew 16
Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rockb I will build my church, and the gates of hellc shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosedd in heaven.” 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

and here is Peter "using" the keys:

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[zone]

If you really have been given the mind of Christ; then why need help outside the word of God to find the answers. It is just like going to the rabies for help
,instead of staying with Jesus???

''wakeup''.

wakeup:
i know full well you got your "theology" outside the "word of God".
please just get real?

 

[zone]

As a true Christian you really should care for your bro,and sis, that attitude of i dont care, is not the spirit of love, but selfishness. Not trying to edify others, but only the group you are in. this is how they have become puddles in the landscape.

''wakeup''.

so.....Red is responsible for people who "become puddles in the landscape"?
ah...NO. he isn't.

self-appointed prophets and cults are.

 

[Red33]

I can say with full assurance that if you came to my town few would listen to you. For you would be speaking for yourself and not God

How can I say this?

Because you will not accept the plain and continuous statements of Christ as to what a person must believe concerning himself to have eternal life

Therefore it is UTTERLY IMPLOSSIBLE for you to be being led of the Holy Spirit, for he COULD NEVER contradict the plain and contionuous words of Christ

I would not speak against you, there would be no need. Your preaching would be seen as weak and lacklustre and would not have power ,for you cannot have power without the Holy Spirit

I have seen many preach and teach believing they have been raised up by God, they have displayed much pride and arrogance, the result is always the same, for their first concern from the heart is not for God to be glorified but for them to receive praise from men

If I lack these things you claim and have no power and could not be led of the Spirit, I assume that you do have what I lack. If that is true, are they of your own town listening to you and is it more than just a few? For if you are speaking for God then you must have a good audience. Where you live must be the place that God had called you by grace to let your light shine. Depending upon how long you have lived in your town and having the power of the Spirit and the right gospel for the salvation of the lost, approximately how many souls have you seen been saved through your preaching and what kind of fruit have you witnessed? Should we know you by your fruit as you profess to know me by my fruit?

 

[zone]

I believe jesus is the son of God; v,s You believe jesus is God.
Jesus believe, he is the son of God. The pope believe Jesus is God.
Peter believe, Jesus is the son of God. THe born agains believe Jesus is God.
God says, he is my beloved son. Babylon the great believe Jesus is God
All the apostles believe Jesus is the
son of God.
AND THE WINNER IIIIIIIISS!!!

''wakeup''.

John 3
You Must Be Born Again
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesusa by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born againb he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ 8 The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 1
9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,b and his own peoplec did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,d who is at the Father’s side,e he has made him known.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.e

728. arrabón​

an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
​

Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Short Definition: an earnest, earnest-money
Definition: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.