IS MARY THE WOMAN IN REVELATION CHAPTER 12?
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Could she possibly be the "church?" Twelve stars crowned her. But then who is her child? Jesus?
I know in the OT it is mentioned several times that Yahweh is ourhusband, but then Jesus is the Bridegroom..
No, to pronounce without revelation on these passages is too much for e, and it is yet to be given anyone by the Holy Spirit, so like Mary, I will wait.
I know in the OT it is mentioned several times that Yahweh is ourhusband, but then Jesus is the Bridegroom..
No, to pronounce without revelation on these passages is too much for e, and it is yet to be given anyone by the Holy Spirit, so like Mary, I will wait.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The woman is Isreal
1. She gives birth to christ (the seed which comes from Abraham Isaac and Jacob)
2. She is protected from total destruction from satan
3. This causes satan to attack her offspring (the church)
1. She gives birth to christ (the seed which comes from Abraham Isaac and Jacob)
2. She is protected from total destruction from satan
3. This causes satan to attack her offspring (the church)
The woman is the Church, that is, the whole aggregate of people who are faithful to God, from the very beginning to the last days of history. The moon is also an image of the Church, this shone does not shine with its own light, but with the light that the Sun illuminates it. Light is the teaching:
For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life (Proverbs 6:23 )
The "Torah" is light, - the teaching is light.
The stars are the teachers of mankind.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (Daniel 12: 3 )
12 stars can mean 12 apostles.
The sun is a powerful light source. Who is the most powerful light source for the earth? This is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. (John 9: 5 )
What is the difference between the Church, which in the image of a woman clothed with the sun, and the Church that is in the image of the moon? The church, clothed in the sun, are saints who clothed with Christ, they themselves shine brightly like Christ. And the Moon is a nominal church. It happens that such a church does not shine at all. That is, does not teach and is not a guide for travelers in the night.
The infant, whom the Church gives birth in torment, is the unity of the saints, which will appear when Ezekiel's Temple in Israel is built, and all the saints will enter the Eastern Gate. His name: Israel, he will reign over all nations. This is the incarnation of Jesus Christ in His Second Coming.
In the beginning of Genesis, the same images. It describes the creation of the spiritual world of mankind.
For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life (Proverbs 6:23 )
The "Torah" is light, - the teaching is light.
The stars are the teachers of mankind.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (Daniel 12: 3 )
12 stars can mean 12 apostles.
The sun is a powerful light source. Who is the most powerful light source for the earth? This is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. (John 9: 5 )
What is the difference between the Church, which in the image of a woman clothed with the sun, and the Church that is in the image of the moon? The church, clothed in the sun, are saints who clothed with Christ, they themselves shine brightly like Christ. And the Moon is a nominal church. It happens that such a church does not shine at all. That is, does not teach and is not a guide for travelers in the night.
The infant, whom the Church gives birth in torment, is the unity of the saints, which will appear when Ezekiel's Temple in Israel is built, and all the saints will enter the Eastern Gate. His name: Israel, he will reign over all nations. This is the incarnation of Jesus Christ in His Second Coming.
In the beginning of Genesis, the same images. It describes the creation of the spiritual world of mankind.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The woman can not be the church, The church did not give birth to the savior. The savior gave birth to the church.
The woman is isreal. Who according to OT prophesies will be protected. As apposed to the church, (offspring) who according to NT prophesies will be thoroughly persecuted to the ends of the earth,
inasmuch as Mary typologically represents Israel (Christ being born of her, fleeing to Egypt at the warning and aegis of angels, etc) i think she's represented here by the vision also, but primarily this is Israel being pictured, i agree.
to my understanding it's complex; not simply representative of a single thing/event, but a spiritual meta-event realized in a number of ways.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think it is prophecy comming to fruition or fulfillment. The OT states equivicolly at the end satan will want to destroy the woman (as he has been trying to do since the woman was born in Abraham) but God will protect her. (Jesus told them whe they see the abomination of desolation to run, to the place where God said in many OT prophesies he would protect her) At the end of this Great tribulation or time of Jacobs trouble. God will remove her blindness and she will repent.
In the meantime, many in the church will endure to the end, And both Isreal and Gentile believers will enter the kingdo age with no other than Israels messiah rulling with the rod of Iron.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Rev 12: 6 - Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of JesusChrist.
When did the above happen with mary? And when did Satan turn and make war with Jesus few brothers and sisters who were left?
If one looks at OT prophesy, they can see this is speaking of the woman (Israel) who is persecuted yet protected as promised, And the offspring (the church) who is persecuted openly and many many die.
14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of JesusChrist.
When did the above happen with mary? And when did Satan turn and make war with Jesus few brothers and sisters who were left?
If one looks at OT prophesy, they can see this is speaking of the woman (Israel) who is persecuted yet protected as promised, And the offspring (the church) who is persecuted openly and many many die.
The woman is Israel, or "believing Israel". It is a believing remnant out of Israel that is preserved in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years from the attacks of Satan and the Antichrist during the Tribulation.
The child is Christ, the one who rules the nations with a rod of iron, and the one who was resurrected and went to Heaven.. God elected Israel to be the nation which would bring King Messiah into the world. Thus we find His genealogy going back to Abraham through Judah and David.
The sun, moon, and stars take us back to Joseph's dream, where the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel.
The Catholic Church has interpreted this woman as Mary, since they have focused on Maryolatry. But that would not be the true interpretation.
"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth."
(Rev. 12: 1-2)
Is Mary the woman in Rev. 12? If she is not the woman there then who?
There are four symbolic women in the book of Revelation. Mary, the mother of Jesus, is not one of the four.
The first woman is given the name, Jezebel. She leads people astray, so as to commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.(Rev. 2: 20)
The second woman is in chapter 17 verses 1-7, and she is described as "clothed in purple and scarlet….having seven heads and ten horns…in her hand is a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality... on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” She represents the apostate church.
The third woman in Revelation is called the wife of the Lamb, the bride who represents the true church.
(Rev. 19: 7-8). Some have suggested that this is the woman in Revelation 12 represents the church. Nowhere in the Bible is the church ever called a “woman."When the church is spoken of in feminine terms, the church is always called a “bride." She doesn't become a wife until the marriage supper of the Lamb in chapter 19 of Revelation. She is always a bride. Paul writes: "for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.” (2 Cor. 11:2). We see that in Rev. 19.
Eternally-Gratefull is correct...
The fourth woman represents Israel. Israel is oftentimes depicted as the wife of God in the Old Testament, a disloyal wife, an unfaithful wife, an adulterous wife, but in the end God will bring her back to faithfulness. So Israel is symbolized as a woman in Revelation 12.
And how will you explain the child bore, the suns, moon and stars with the verses of the Bible?
"The child born"—can only refer to Jesus Christ." And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” verse 5.
"Being clothed with the sun"—speaks of the glory, dignity and exalted status of Israel. Israel is the people of promise who will be saved.
"The moon under her feet"-It could refer to exaltation of Israel. but could also have the concept of covenant relationship there, since the moon was so central in the cycle of worship, they, you remember, worshiped in their yearly cycle through a series of new moons and feasts and festivals and sabbaths associated with them.
"Her head a crown of twelve stars"—The twelve stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel.
"She cried out being in labor and in pain to give birth.” --There's something she's in pain about. And it's the bringing forth of a child. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out what that was, or who that was, would it? What did every Jewish mother long for?What did the nation wait for? What did they hope for? The Messiah. Israel agonized and suffered for centuries, waiting and longing for the child that would eventually come and destroy Satan and sin and death and bring the promised kingdom.
Conclusion:
So the imagery in Rev. 12 verse 1 leads us to the conclusion that this is a woman representing Israel.Verse 2, "She was with child." Israel here is depicted not only as a wife and as a woman, but as a pregnant woman, a woman about to give birth. Israel is seen as a mother here. I know many disagree with me and Eternally-Grateful, but context is king in Bible interpretation. And it is my belief that the fourth woman is not Mary, the mother of Jesus, nor can she be "the church" for the reasons stated above.
(Rev. 12: 1-2)
Is Mary the woman in Rev. 12? If she is not the woman there then who?
There are four symbolic women in the book of Revelation. Mary, the mother of Jesus, is not one of the four.
The first woman is given the name, Jezebel. She leads people astray, so as to commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.(Rev. 2: 20)
The second woman is in chapter 17 verses 1-7, and she is described as "clothed in purple and scarlet….having seven heads and ten horns…in her hand is a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality... on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” She represents the apostate church.
The third woman in Revelation is called the wife of the Lamb, the bride who represents the true church.
(Rev. 19: 7-8). Some have suggested that this is the woman in Revelation 12 represents the church. Nowhere in the Bible is the church ever called a “woman."When the church is spoken of in feminine terms, the church is always called a “bride." She doesn't become a wife until the marriage supper of the Lamb in chapter 19 of Revelation. She is always a bride. Paul writes: "for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.” (2 Cor. 11:2). We see that in Rev. 19.
Eternally-Gratefull is correct...
The fourth woman represents Israel. Israel is oftentimes depicted as the wife of God in the Old Testament, a disloyal wife, an unfaithful wife, an adulterous wife, but in the end God will bring her back to faithfulness. So Israel is symbolized as a woman in Revelation 12.
And how will you explain the child bore, the suns, moon and stars with the verses of the Bible?
"The child born"—can only refer to Jesus Christ." And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” verse 5.
"Being clothed with the sun"—speaks of the glory, dignity and exalted status of Israel. Israel is the people of promise who will be saved.
"The moon under her feet"-It could refer to exaltation of Israel. but could also have the concept of covenant relationship there, since the moon was so central in the cycle of worship, they, you remember, worshiped in their yearly cycle through a series of new moons and feasts and festivals and sabbaths associated with them.
"Her head a crown of twelve stars"—The twelve stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel.
"She cried out being in labor and in pain to give birth.” --There's something she's in pain about. And it's the bringing forth of a child. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out what that was, or who that was, would it? What did every Jewish mother long for?What did the nation wait for? What did they hope for? The Messiah. Israel agonized and suffered for centuries, waiting and longing for the child that would eventually come and destroy Satan and sin and death and bring the promised kingdom.
Conclusion:
So the imagery in Rev. 12 verse 1 leads us to the conclusion that this is a woman representing Israel.Verse 2, "She was with child." Israel here is depicted not only as a wife and as a woman, but as a pregnant woman, a woman about to give birth. Israel is seen as a mother here. I know many disagree with me and Eternally-Grateful, but context is king in Bible interpretation. And it is my belief that the fourth woman is not Mary, the mother of Jesus, nor can she be "the church" for the reasons stated above.
I dont know that any of that happened directly to Mary other than her giving birth to the manchild. The woman in those verses is the barren woman, heavenly Jerusalem. Mary was and is a part of heavenly Jersusalem so in that verse Mary is the physical woman who gave birth to Jesus and she's also heavenly Jerusalem.
After Jesus was crucified all the Christians were severely persecuted by the devil and he did make war against them, that's how the gospel was spread beyond Israel.
Revelation 12 King James Version And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
According to the signified language of Revelation. The woman as a new creature is the bride of Christ signified as the surrogate mother of us all.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galatians 4:26
She does not represent the flesh of any nation
Being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in respect to the glory of God . The Sun and moon under her feet represents its the end of time
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.Revelation 21:22-23
Paul as a new creature was used as a surrogate mother suffering as in birth pains until Christ was formed in Timothy .
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Paul again in a parable is show acting as a surrogate mother espousing Timothy as a member of the bride of Christ as a chaste virgin .A virgin who has not violated the first commandment to fornificate with the gods of this world .
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband (Christ) , that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
According to the signified language of Revelation. The woman as a new creature is the bride of Christ signified as the surrogate mother of us all.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galatians 4:26
She does not represent the flesh of any nation
Being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in respect to the glory of God . The Sun and moon under her feet represents its the end of time
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.Revelation 21:22-23
Paul as a new creature was used as a surrogate mother suffering as in birth pains until Christ was formed in Timothy .
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Paul again in a parable is show acting as a surrogate mother espousing Timothy as a member of the bride of Christ as a chaste virgin .A virgin who has not violated the first commandment to fornificate with the gods of this world .
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband (Christ) , that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
As many have stated "the woman" represents Israyl/the assemby/commonlycalled "the church"
Births the "seed" abraham to Issac to Jacob called Israyl to Yahshua, satan fights against them Rev 12:17, and the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israyl. Also worth noting is the message in the stars... But that is a whole other topic..
Births the "seed" abraham to Issac to Jacob called Israyl to Yahshua, satan fights against them Rev 12:17, and the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israyl. Also worth noting is the message in the stars... But that is a whole other topic..
They are not all Israel which are of Israel (Romans 9:6). Which Israel are you saying gave birth to the manchild? Fleshy descendants of Israel or spiritual descendants of Israel i.e the children of promise of Romans 9:8.
I agree, and it goes way back;
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Yahshua is the Passover Lamb...
The woman in Revelation 12 is the barren woman who finally gave birth, her first birth was Christ then those who are his. Christ represents the second birth because he is God's second born son, flesh Israel being his firstborn (Exodus 4:22).
The woman is the mother of all the second born... she had no children until Christ came because Christ brought the rights to have the second birth to all that are his.
I don't buy into a replacement theology if thats what you are saying, there are too many prophecies about Israyl being reconciled to YHWH. Also this would go against a ton of doctrine, including being "grafted in" and Num 15:15-16, Exodus 12:47-48, Isaiah 56:1-7, Acts 10:34-36 and many more... There is only One Shepherd and one body of believers...
Acts 15:14-18,14 “Shim‛on has declared how Elohim first visited the nations to take out of them a people for His Name."15 “And the words of the prophets agree with this, as it has been written:"16 ‘After this I shall return and rebuild the Booth of Dawiḏ which has fallen down. And I shall rebuild its ruins, and I shall set it up,"17 so that the remnant of mankind shall seek יהוה, even all the nations on whom My Name has been called, says יהוה who is doing all this,’"18 who has made this known from of old.”
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying...
I think you misunderstood me. Im saying that the woman is the mother of those who are born again. She was barren, there was no second births until Christ came. Now the barren has more children than her that hath a husband (Galatians 4:27).