Is Open Theism Heresy?
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Man does not know how to draw a triangular circle. You Just said that God does know how to draw a triangular circle.
God's knowledge can have unlimited capacity (be infinite) now, but contain only all truths so far observed, without it also having to contain now all truths that will be observed in future, if that were possible.
You are human, but you are designating to God a nature you have rationalised God should have according to your thinking. In doing so you are binding God by human rationale - something you say does not work: the created defining the Creator.
God's knowledge can have unlimited capacity (be infinite) now, but contain only all truths so far observed, without it also having to contain now all truths that will be observed in future, if that were possible.
You are human, but you are designating to God a nature you have rationalised God should have according to your thinking. In doing so you are binding God by human rationale - something you say does not work: the created defining the Creator.
PaulThomson said:
What? You cannot find any examples on those pages of God being loving, living, relational, good or personal?
Matthew 26:57-75
King James Version
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus (Personal) led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
58 But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.
59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; (Good, and living)
60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Living)
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, (Relational)
68 Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee? (Personal)
69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
can you show anywhere on those same two pages where God must be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, impassible or immutable.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: (Living)
2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. (Good) And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me. (Relational)
11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.
13 Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.
Now can you show anything on those same pages that declares that God must be immutable, impassible, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?
What? You cannot find any examples on those pages of God being loving, living, relational, good or personal?
Matthew 26:57-75
King James Version
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus (Personal) led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
58 But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.
59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; (Good, and living)
60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Living)
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, (Relational)
68 Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee? (Personal)
69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
can you show anywhere on those same two pages where God must be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, impassible or immutable.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: (Living)
2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. (Good) And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me. (Relational)
11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.
13 Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.
Now can you show anything on those same pages that declares that God must be immutable, impassible, omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient?
Does a person overseeing a spoon-making machine that makes each spoon unique by some randomising process create each spoon? Or does he form the spoons using a process already in play? God has created a process by which humans reproduce. Personally, I don't think He predetermines or controls which sperm merges with which egg to provide which predetermined gene content will be in each zygote's chromosomes. God's invention of the process and His use of the process to form babies could be said to be creating those persons, if the worker who invents a machine to make unique spoons and then uses it to make many of them could be said to be creating spoons. Do you feel that God creating each person helps your position on Open Theism somehow?
I'm an Open Theist and I believe God is intricately involved in every aspect of our world. In Him we live and move and have our being.
I experience God by trusting Him and seeing my life play out according to His promises for those who trust Him. I experience God through conversation, with Him, through communion with him, through His Spirit working through His people, through observing His creation and through His word.
I experience God by trusting Him and seeing my life play out according to His promises for those who trust Him. I experience God through conversation, with Him, through communion with him, through His Spirit working through His people, through observing His creation and through His word.
He observes the formation of every aspect of the formation of each person and is recording it as it happens, according to Ps. 139. Nature also uses the process God invented, although the process has degenerated somewhat due to mankind's degeneration, and so throw up some noticably malformed persons.
No, based on the word of GOD. Unlike some who create false narratives and cute terms to suggest they know more than everyone else. Professing themselves to be wise, they are fools. God knows all because of His Special Revelation (His WORD) says so. And is authoritative without errors, unlike fallen man.
Hebrews 4:12-13
The word of God is living and active, able to penetrate the soul and spirit, and discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. No creature is hidden from God's sight.
Romans 11:33
"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!"
Psalm 139:1-18
O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
Isaiah 55:8-9
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
This is not human rationale it is reading what the word of God says about GOD.
Hebrews 4:12-13
The word of God is living and active, able to penetrate the soul and spirit, and discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. No creature is hidden from God's sight.
Romans 11:33
"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!"
Psalm 139:1-18
O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
Isaiah 55:8-9
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
This is not human rationale it is reading what the word of God says about GOD.
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PaulThomson said:
And yet you are binding God to having to know all the future based on human rationale.
Nothing in those texts says that God exhaustively knows the future. The only way to to get to Exhaustive Divine Foreknowledge from those texts is to add presuppositions from human rationale.
And yet you are binding God to having to know all the future based on human rationale.
Nothing in those texts says that God exhaustively knows the future. The only way to to get to Exhaustive Divine Foreknowledge from those texts is to add presuppositions from human rationale.
Isaiah said God is the only God who knows the END from the BEGINNING. If God knows how things will END that means He knows everything in between the end and the beginning.
For God to know the END before something begins that is DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE of the FUTURE.
You clearly don't read the Bible very well because ALPHA and OMEGA has been a concept since FOREVER. But the fact you don't know this makes me question everything you post in every topic.
For God to know the END before something begins that is DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE of the FUTURE.
You clearly don't read the Bible very well because ALPHA and OMEGA has been a concept since FOREVER. But the fact you don't know this makes me question everything you post in every topic.