Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

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Really? "But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—" John 1:12

"Him" in this passage is Jesus. I was born again by accepting Christ. I knew nothing about the Holy Spirit. He was called the Holy Ghost in those days. I knew something about ghosts and they for sure were not holy. So I was confused. It took me a while to understand.

Also, "Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name (Jesus) under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12​

Revelation 7:3
King James Version (KJV)


3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.



The seal of God is the Holy Spirit and only God’s elects can receive the Holy Spirit

Revelation 9:4
King James Version (KJV)


4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


Ephesians 1:13-14
King James Version (KJV)


13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.
Acts 16
Jesus said those who endure till the end will be saved. Paul said "faith" without love is noise. Read Matthew 24 and 25, then let's talk about. Jesus said only those who obey Him will be saved. Is instantaneous salvation available without obedience? Jesus made it clear that a rich man has little chance of heaven. Jesus said that you must love your neighbor, but I don't see that in most salvation theology.

In your quotation from Acts 16 you left off the part where as soon as they claimed belief they were baptised in middle of the night. Why would they have to be baptised if they were already saved as soon as they said "I believe?"
 
Those of Israel and the kingdom gospel were required to endure to the end. Those saved by the grace gospel have salvation that is immediate and eternal. Those who are saved by the grace gospel are expected to grow into Christ-likeness by transitioning from the flesh to walking by the Spirit. Sadly, most Christians do not know this much less how to do it. Thus most Christians remain immature and indistinguishable from the unsaved.
 
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Jesus said that only those who endure all forms of persecution, "but remain faithful to the end" will be saved. What does His statement imply about "instantaneous and irreversible?" Paul said it does not matter how much faith you have. If you don't have love, your faith is just noise. How does that play into your theology? Can you have "saving faith" without love?

to further clarify "Enduring until the end"
A follower of Jesus Christ must battle the pulls of their own carnal human nature every day of their life: lust, pride and greed to name a few.
They must battle the attracts of Satan, Satan wants not just the Saints of God but all mankind to die,

Like our Passover, Jesus Christ we also must endure until the end plus we must overcome our own nature, this world and Satan.
Satan's world, just living in this world of sin is a huge daily battle,
and it is the many who will not survive.

Those accepting the satanic doctrine of "instantaneous and irreversible salvation" has been deceived by Satan.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Enduring and overcoming are required, no exceptions.
 
Well, to start with there was no real harmony about living a Christian life. Some said, you have to become a Jew then you could be a Christian. Some said, "Whatever you eat means nothing," while others said, no meat offered to idols, no strangled food, no food with blood in it. From approx. 315 AD till 1,514 AD there was one common concept of Christianity in service to the state.

So, there is the dating. Why dodge the question?
What does God say?
 
Well, to start with there was no real harmony about living a Christian life. Some said, you have to become a Jew then you could be a Christian. Some said, "Whatever you eat means nothing," while others said, no meat offered to idols, no strangled food, no food with blood in it. From approx. 315 AD till 1,514 AD there was one common concept of Christianity in service to the state.

So, there is the dating. Why dodge the question?
Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice to usher in a new and better covenant. We are no longer under the OC. So yes, it happened about 2000 yrs ago.
 
Seems to me this question has been around for 600 yrs. I am interested in how we the answer now.
Augustine talked about the predestination of the elect in the fourth century, and that was 1700 hundred
years ago. Was Augustine the first to consider that idea?

In other words, you don't choose Jesus rather Jesus chose you.
 
IF salvation i.e eternal life, was instantaneous and permanent, with no time or period of testing to see if the person would never turn away from God's One righteous Way, disaster would be certain.

Man already has a 6000 year history of turning away, even now in 2026, World War Three is close.
Just read Revelation chapters 2 and 3 describing seven Churches of God, not a pretty picture.
God is ready to cast some out if they will not repent of sin.
Well, that was encouraging.
 
Seems to me this question has been around for 600 yrs. I am interested in how we the answer now.
Context is very important in the letter to the Romans (Jews and Gentiles).

Here is AI summarizing your question applied to Romans.

Based on a strict reading of Romans within its original context, Calvinism (often summarized by the TULIP acronym: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints) is a possible, though not universally accepted, interpretation of Paul’s argument, particularly in chapters 8–11. [1, 2]
However, the "possibility" of Calvinism in Romans relies on how one interprets Paul’s focus: whether it is on the individual's salvation destiny, or on God's sovereign historical plan for Israel and the Gentiles. [1, 2]
Here is an analysis based on the text and context of Romans:

1. Arguments for Calvinism in Romans
Calvinists heavily rely on Romans 8-9 to argue for unconditional election and sovereign grace. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Total Depravity (Romans 3 & 5): Paul states, "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God" (Rom 3:10-11). He also teaches that all sinned in Adam (Rom 5:12-19).
  • Unconditional Election (Romans 9): Paul argues that God’s purpose in election stands "not of works, but of him that calleth" (Rom 9:11). He uses the example of Jacob and Esau, noting God loved one and hated the other before they were born, concluding "it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy" (Rom 9:15-16).
  • Sovereignty/Hardening (Romans 9): Paul asks "who art thou that repliest against God?" when discussing vessels of mercy and wrath (Rom 9:20-23). He directly states, "He hath mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth" (Rom 9:18).
  • Perseverance/Golden Chain (Romans 8): Paul links divine actions that guarantee the outcome: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined... those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified" (Rom 8:29-30). [1, 2, 3, 4]

2. Contextual Arguments Countering Calvinism
Many scholars argue that lifting these verses to support a systematic theology (Calvinism) ignores the immediate context of Romans 9-11, which focuses on national Israel, not individual heaven/hell destiny. [1, 2]
  • Context of Israel (Romans 9-11): Paul is addressing the problem of Israel’s unbelief (Rom 9:1-5). The election discussed is often interpreted as God choosing Israel to bring the Messiah, and now choosing to bring in Gentiles, allowing a temporary "hardening" of Israel (Rom 11:25-26).
  • Conditional Faith (Romans 10): While chapter 9 seems high-sovereignty, chapter 10 emphasizes human responsibility. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom 10:13). Paul notes that Israel did not believe because they sought righteousness by works rather than faith (Rom 9:31-32, 10:3-4).
  • "All" vs. Elect (Romans 5 & 11): In Romans 5:18, Paul states justification applies to "all men" (corporate), and in 11:32, he says, "God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." This implies a universal offer, contradicting Limited Atonement.
  • Free Will in Vessels (Romans 1 & 9): Before God hardens (Rom 9), the people "did not like to retain God in their knowledge" (Rom 1:28), implying they hardened themselves first. [1, 2, 3, 4, 6]

Conclusion
Is it possible? Yes. If one reads Romans 9 as a direct treatise on individual salvation from eternity past, Calvinism is a plausible systematic deduction. [1]
However, if one reads Romans in its historical context—focusing on God’s faithfulness to his covenant promises through history (replacing national privilege with faith-based inclusion for both Jews and Gentiles), and balances Romans 9 with Romans 10—then the text can be interpreted to hold God's sovereignty and human responsibility in a way that differs from strict Calvinism.

Ignore context and you pay a dreadful price.
 
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What happens to our "salvation" if we turn away?
Salvation is not merely registration/enlistment into Jesus’ community. It is being functionally involved in advancing Jesus’ agenda for the world.

If I enlist in the army with a bunch of my friends we all go through a process where we get an army haircut, our kit and our barracks bed allocated. We then need to submit to the training programme and follow the orders of our troop commander. If three months later, I decide I don’t want to follow orders and risk my life for my countrymen, and go AWOL, travel across country and are living a civilian life off-barracks, I may tell people I am in the army, but am I? No, I am a deserter. If I return to the barracks six months later when my original intake are about to be commissioned and sent overseas, the army will not consider that I have been in the army for six months and send me off with my original cohort. I would be a danger to them all out on the field. I will be punished for my desertion and I will need to go through training from scratch and graduate.

I was enlisted in the army. I was in the army for three months. But during my desertion, I am not really “in the army”.

"Becoming saved" is instantaneous. "Being saved” is a term descriptive of a present ongoing relationship of submission to Jesus as Lord and saviour. When I am living in submission, I am being saved from living out of synch with the laws God built into the universe. Living out of synch with those divinely appointed laws is what causes us to become wounded and damaged. working with those laws saves us from suffering that wounding and damage due to rebellion.

IMO most Christians concept of salvation as a contract signed, as opposed to a covenant being kept, is misdirecting their attention and their focus in debates about whether “salvation" can be “lost”.
 
Jesus said that only those who endure all forms of persecution, "but remain faithful to the end" will be saved. What does His statement imply about "instantaneous and irreversible?" Paul said it does not matter how much faith you have. If you don't have love, your faith is just noise. How does that play into your theology? Can you have "saving faith" without love?
:) Was He talking to Christians? Was this about "salvation" or physical deliverance? To your question, yes and yes and its a work in progress. Now as one said could I in 3 months just walk away? In this world the answer would be duh yes.... Love this song

"Feels like" "I won't waste my life Without You, Life's not worth living, living They can't change my mind, Cause You saved my life, Led me through the night, Set me free, gave me something I can't describe...oh oh oh oh feels like oh oh oh.." "Feels like joy, Feels like peace, Feels like change, Feels so free, Feels like home, Like clarity, Feels like this is the way it was meant to be" Playing as I type.. what are the odds.

So this salvation a choice or something so much more that man cannot begin nor the angels in heaven understand. Not my words.. but I like this "sovereign act of God that transcends human comprehension and leaves angels in awe." Do we understand Eph where we put off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts. That is still in us but now we put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. That new man is what is born again the new spirit that was dead is now alive. So yes one could at the start fake it or not mean it just playing games.

But could I just go awol? For me.... No what happened when He found me was a choice yet something supernatural that I cannot describe happened and I have after that moment (young) done some awful things really bad yet He was still there. What He started He won't maybe hopefully finish but will finish. He never gives up on us. There are sins I willfully did but I never rejected Him dying on the cross for then there would be no hope just judgement. Nor have I just tasted or faked it never meant it. He died for the "sin" of the world. So yes when you see Him and some "sin" was talked about.. you would ask "I thought you don't hold them against us?" HE would say " I don't" . I don't repent hoping to keep my salvation that is never questioned. For me.. take prayer.. I always when praying for someone (prayed up...and in some cases fast) make sure I have repented of everything for I do not want anything to hinder what God can do...understand? This is not some game of OSAS or you can lose your salvation. Were talking about Christ here.. I pause.. to much to go into..

Sorry.. love love this song "You Are Holy..you are holy"..."Unto the one who sits on the throne unto the Lamb be all the blessing and honor Glory and Power" YES AMEN
 
Seems to me this question has been around for 600 yrs. I am interested in how we the answer now.

From the consequences of sin, spiritual death? Yes. Jn.5:24

From the power of sin brought on by the lies of our ignorance and our own imaginings resulting in flawed characters? No, that requires growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and the application of faith. 2Pet.3:18 Jms.1:22

From the presence of sin, the corruption in our flesh that we refer to as the sin nature? Yes, but not until the Day of Resurrection. 1Cor.15:54
 
Seems to me this question has been around for 600 yrs. I am interested in how we the answer now.
So, if you get God in you, how do you get him out?

And yet, 99% of the threads are on salvation. Sad that people can’t move on to get to know God. You’re saved! Now move on!
 
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So, if you get God in you, how do you get him out?

And yet, 99% of the threads are on salvation. Sad that people can’t move on to get to know God. You’re saved! Now move on!
I guess you are probing at the center of the problem. If you are saved, why not just go out and live your best life based on your priorities, morality, finance, entertainment choices and sin pleasure.

The old circular thinking theology goes like this. You can get saved, but then if your life is as a reprobate, antagonistic headonist, then you were "never saved in the first place..." Thus salvation depends on how you live, not at all about what you claim to believe. That little Protestant gem has been around for about 220 yrs.
 
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I guess you are probing at the center of the problem. If you are saved, why not just go out and live your best life based on your priorities, morality, finance, entertainment choices and sin pleasure.

The old circular thinking theology goes like this. You can get saved, but then if your life is as a reprobate, antagonistic headonist, then you were "never saved in the first place..." Thus salvation depends on how you live, not at all about what you claim to believe. That little Protestant gem has been around for about 220 yrs.
Well then you start wanting the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and then you move on from that to using the gifts (and your spiritual prayer language) of the Holy Spirit to further obey God. And yes, people get stuck at the Baptism of the Holy Spirit too.
 
Jesus said that only those who endure all forms of persecution, "but remain faithful to the end" will be saved. What does His statement imply about "instantaneous and irreversible?" Paul said it does not matter how much faith you have. If you don't have love, your faith is just noise. How does that play into your theology? Can you have "saving faith" without love?
You did not read what I said. "Salvation" has more than one aspect. You tell me how someone can be unborn again. How can anyone change eternal to temporary? How can the indestructible life of Jesus be destroyed? (Hebrews 7:16) He who has the Son has the Life. Salvation is God's business. God has never yet failed.
 
Well then you start wanting the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and then you move on from that to using the gifts (and your spiritual prayer language) of the Holy Spirit to further obey God. And yes, people get stuck at the Baptism of the Holy Spirit too.
are you talking of speaking in tongues??
 
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I was baptized in water in 1970, in 2015, the Lord saved me. I'll never be the same.

John
King James Bible
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.