Jesus is God.... why do some "christians" deny this?

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NoNameMcgee

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John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.



John 8:58

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
 
I don't know man, and honestly don't know if you can be a true Christian and deny this. I don't see how anyway. I know during my conversion, before I even knew what actually happen, I "KNEW" 2 things #1 I knew the change I was experiencing came from God, #2 I knew Jesus was His Son and the way this change took place. I'm not sure that one can be saved and not KNOW this, the Spirit testifies of the Son. That's my understanding and experiences for what it's worth (worth everything to me BTW;)).
 
When I was first coming to the Lord I didn't know He was God.

I think it is hidden to those who have not come to Him.
 
Grandpa said:
When I was first coming to the Lord I didn't know He was God.

I think it is hidden to those who have not come to Him.
Click to expand...

I think that what may happen is that those that deny Jesus is in fact God come in the flesh - they may think that if they "mimic" the things Jesus said while here on this earth - that they are good to go.

They can make Jesus a 'religion" and condemn those that don't "follow Him like they do" or the way they interpret some scriptures.

In essence they have a religion which replaces the life of Christ in us for "following His teachings". The true Christian life is Christ living in and through us. Gal. 2:20 & Col. 3:3
 
I usually hear the exact same argument from unbelieving Christians that I do from Muslims on the issue, actually. The "exact words" argument. They ask you "where did Christ say that He is God?" and you show them verses where He says that He and God are one, that He owns all that God owns, that He will judge the world on the last day, that He existed with God and shared in His glory before the world was even formed, ect ect. And they say "No, I want to see the exact words where Jesus said 'I am God, worship Me'". If you cant show them that Jesus said that, then all the claims of Jesus saying that He is only what God is, they will refuse to believe in it.

I also see alot of unbelieving Christians say "how can He be both God and the Son of God", I assume that they believe that He was literally always the Son of God, that He existed as the Son of God before the world was even formed. I dont believe that, I believe that He is the Son of God because He came from God into the womb of Mary and was born in the flesh of a man, therefore making Him a Son, but that He is a part of God Himself (the right arm). But I guess they believe that God has always had a literal Son with Him throughout eternity.

Jesus will raise the dead, judge the world, forgive sin, be worshiped by all and will be called Lord by everyone. He will save those who have come to Him and cast those who did not into the place made for satan and his angels. He will reign over the world in the temple of God. It is clear that He shares all of Gods attributes and abilities, and even in His glory-

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols."

Zechariah 14:9
9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
 
NoNameMcgee said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.



John 8:58

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
Click to expand...

So do you know the meanings of these verses so as to be confident that they support your conclusion that Jesus is truly God. It's just a worthwhile thing to do, I believe.

In Christ, Always
 
NoNameMcgee said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.



John 8:58

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
Click to expand...

Good question☺
 
AKAP said:
So do you know the meanings of these verses so as to be confident that they support your conclusion that Jesus is truly God. It's just a worthwhile thing to do, I believe.

In Christ, Always
Click to expand...

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.




Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



if you would like to refute the op


i will accept scripture


i am not above reproof
 
[h=1]Jesus is God.... why do some "christians" deny this?[/h]Genuine Christians will not deny this. But the reason for all the attacks on the deity of Christ is because Satan does not want to see people saved, and without believing this they cannot be saved. Thus we have groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Muslims and the unbelieving Jews, who are so blind and yet so zealous about their religion.
 
AKAP said:
So do you know the meanings of these verses so as to be confident that they support your conclusion that Jesus is truly God. It's just a worthwhile thing to do, I believe.
Click to expand...
This is not rocket science. Those are plain statements of Scripture, which even a child can understand. So it is either believe the Bible or disbelieve it.
 
AKAP said:
So do you know the meanings of these verses so as to be confident that they support your conclusion that Jesus is truly God. It's just a worthwhile thing to do, I believe.

In Christ, Always
Click to expand...

Well akap, apprently you don't know the meaning of these verses because you clearly have said you deny that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. Why does a pious Jew likie Thomas declare to Jesus Christ Himself at John 20:28 that Jesus Christ is "His Lord and His God?" In the Greek Thomas is literally saying to Jesus, "The Lord of me and the God of me." :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
I think that these few people think that the Old Testament explains the New one.

While the rest of us think that the New Testament explains the Old one.
 
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NoNameMcgee said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.



John 8:58

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
Click to expand...

This thread reminds me of the talk Jesus had with Philip.

"Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" (John 14:8-9 KJV)
 
trofimus said:
I think that these few people think that the Old Testament explains the New one.

While the rest of us think that the New Testament explains the Old one.
Click to expand...


"And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." (Leviticus 26:10 KJV)

"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old." (Matthew 13:52 KJV)

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth." (1 John 2:6-8 KJV)

 
NoNameMcgee said:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.John 10:3030 I and my Father are one.John 8:58 “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
Click to expand...

Hi McGee,


When I became a Christian I didn't know anything about the Lord. I know I would say in my BC days that there must be a god, but I sure didn't know what I was talking about at all.


When I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I only knew that there was God and there was His Son, and that somehow His Son took my sins away.


It was only later that I realized Jesus was God. And it was through reading the word, studying it and attending church and bible studies. I can't tell you when I came to know Jesus was God. It wasn't emphasized to me as a new believer. I think we all assume new believers just know that.


Some Christians are in a denomination that don't teach Jesus is God. So for years they believe what they are being taught. Without reading the word on their own, or studying the word, they can easily be deceived. But even if they are reading the word, their denominational influence won't allow for them to interpret the scriptures correctly.


I certainly didn't know about the trinity either until later.


After one thread here that spoke of the Trinity and hearing what others had to say about it, there were some who posted that didn't believe in the trinity. And some unkind words were flung at those who said they don't believe that doctrine.


And yet, it seems like they love God and live His truth. On here though it's hard to really discern that, but at face value it appears that some on here who don't believe in the Trinity are believers. The same goes for those who don't know yet that Jesus is God.


I'm going to give Christians the benefit of the doubt and accept them as a believer who just doesn't know yet. I think it's a good thing to show scriptures as you are doing McGee.


They need to be told and need to shown through God's word that there's a Trinity and that Jesus is God. After showing them, it still may take a while for them to come to the knowledge of the truth of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. But if the rest of their doctrine and way of living/speaking seems genuine, they truly might be a Christian and just aren't understanding those 2 things yet.


But God gives the discernment of spirits as a gift and it could be that they're being deceived by Satan and are one of His that come to deceive the brothers and sisters in Christ. We do need to watch out for that and not allow people to come on here teaching false doctrine without refuting the lies of the enemy.


So...
it can be immaturity
it can be they're in the wrong denomination
it could be they are young in the Lord, a babe in Christ
it could be a spouse's influence


It could be a number of things. But they need to hear the truth and sometimes we have to be patient and allow the Lord to work in them. The Holy Spirit will lead and guide them into all truth if they genuinely believe.
 
Desertsrose said:


Hi McGee,


When I became a Christian I didn't know anything about the Lord. I know I would say in my BC days that there must be a god, but I sure didn't know what I was talking about at all.


When I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I only knew that there was God and there was His Son, and that somehow His Son took my sins away.


It was only later that I realized Jesus was God. And it was through reading the word, studying it and attending church and bible studies. I can't tell you when I came to know Jesus was God. It wasn't emphasized to me as a new believer. I think we all assume new believers just know that.


Some Christians are in a denomination that don't teach Jesus is God. So for years they believe what they are being taught. Without reading the word on their own, or studying the word, they can easily be deceived. But even if they are reading the word, their denominational influence won't allow for them to interpret the scriptures correctly.


I certainly didn't know about the trinity either until later.


After one thread here that spoke of the Trinity and hearing what others had to say about it, there were some who posted that didn't believe in the trinity. And some unkind words were flung at those who said they don't believe that doctrine.


And yet, it seems like they love God and live His truth. On here though it's hard to really discern that, but at face value it appears that some on here who don't believe in the Trinity are believers. The same goes for those who don't know yet that Jesus is God.


I'm going to give Christians the benefit of the doubt and accept them as a believer who just doesn't know yet. I think it's a good thing to show scriptures as you are doing McGee.


They need to be told and need to shown through God's word that there's a Trinity and that Jesus is God. After showing them, it still may take a while for them to come to the knowledge of the truth of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. But if the rest of their doctrine and way of living/speaking seems genuine, they truly might be a Christian and just aren't understanding those 2 things yet.


But God gives the discernment of spirits as a gift and it could be that they're being deceived by Satan and are one of His that come to deceive the brothers and sisters in Christ. We do need to watch out for that and not allow people to come on here teaching false doctrine without refuting the lies of the enemy.


So...
it can be immaturity
it can be they're in the wrong denomination
it could be they are young in the Lord, a babe in Christ
it could be a spouse's influence


It could be a number of things. But they need to hear the truth and sometimes we have to be patient and allow the Lord to work in them. The Holy Spirit will lead and guide them into all truth if they genuinely believe.
Click to expand...

i see....


well thank you for this DRose
:)


and im sure even without a church
or denomination i probably had some kind of influence before reading Gods Word too


just from random hear-say over the years prior to reading the Bible
 
bluto said:
Well akap, apprently you don't know the meaning of these verses because you clearly have said you deny that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. Why does a pious Jew likie Thomas declare to Jesus Christ Himself at John 20:28 that Jesus Christ is "His Lord and His God?" In the Greek Thomas is literally saying to Jesus, "The Lord of me and the God of me." :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...

So you cannot help yourself I see. You were scheming and trying to badger me in another topic forum that you monitor like a hawk, looking for heretics I guess, (I would look at the speck in your own eye before looking at mine). And now you come on this one and do the same thing. Why do you think you know me! I'm asking you for the last time, change your tone and 'voice.' I'm saying this kindly and with love. I'm here to share and listen. Yes, Jesus had just risen from the 'grave' and Thomas being very cautious, cried out, after seeing Jesus, and said 'my Lord and my God.' Thomas suddenly realized that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead and his Father did indeed raise him as he and others were told before. He became a strong believer in his Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ, Always
 
Answering to the question posed in the title, it seems some who say they are of the faith do not believe Jesus or the Gospels and Epistles..... ergo, they do not believe.
 
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
 
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