Jesus warned us not too look for Him in Jerusalem

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said nothing about having Children when He left the disciples at His ascension.

Did jesus have to?

The OT prophets did speak of children, That is good enough for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This also rightly divides with Acts 1...the angel told the disciples he would return as he left, and Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives, or Mt. Olivet...

Amen, tells is where and tells us how , Although there will be fireworks when he returns. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1st coming, splitting mnt of Olives in two is figurative. We know from scripture that mountains or hill have a figurative meaning. What is split in two is not the physical mountain, but the people of Israel, some will follow Him, and some won't.

If you want to believe this, Thats your choice.

I refuse to take prophecies concerning the return of the lord and make an allegory of them.

All things in the OT concerning His first coming and His work of redemption that the Father laid our for Him. Jesus made the decree/prophecy He was coming back again, and NT writers, I'm not so sure the OT really mentions this. If you know the prophecy in OT of Jesus' second coming, post it and lets look at it.

If your just going to spiritualize prophesies what good would that do? i am being honest.

 

[Adstar]

1st coming, splitting mnt of Olives in two is figurative. We know from scripture that mountains or hill have a figurative meaning. What is split in two is not the physical mountain, but the people of Israel, some will follow Him, and some won't.

All things in the OT concerning His first coming and His work of redemption that the Father laid our for Him. Jesus made the decree/prophecy He was coming back again, and NT writers, I'm not so sure the OT really mentions this. If you know the prophecy in OT of Jesus' second coming, post it and lets look at it.

No way... The splitting of the mountain is in alignment of the prophecy of the great earthquake. In the Book of Revelation..

Revelation 16:KJV
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.



Revelation 6:KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


The earthquake is a literal earthquake.. It will be bigger then any earthquake humanity has ever experienced on earth..

 

[valiant]

Have you ever considered that it would be Gods will to give people over to deception and delusion??

With Jesus ruling on earth and standing by doing nothing? No. David would not have done it. Far less David's greater son. In the Old Testament prophecies He is seen as victorious and ruling the earth. Here He is depicted (if you think it is teaching reign on earth) as either powerless or failing in his duty. In the Old Testament he breaks them with an iron rod and smashes them in pieces like a potter vessel. Here he is depicted as weak and leaving it to the Father at the last moment after great destruction.

Have a read of the following scriptures:::

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That sounds like events leading up to Revelation 19 to me.

John 12: KJV
37 ¶But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

This sounds like 1st century AD to me

 

[valiant]

.....................................................

 

[Adstar]

With Jesus ruling on earth and standing by doing nothing? No. David would not have done it. Far less David's greater son. In the Old Testament prophecies He is seen as victorious and ruling the earth. Here He is depicted (if you think it is teaching reign on earth) as either powerless or failing in his duty. In the Old Testament he breaks them with an iron rod and smashes them in pieces like a potter vessel. Here he is depicted as weak and leaving it to the Father at the last moment after great destruction.



That sounds like events leading up to Revelation 19 to me.



This sounds like 1st century AD to me

Yes the second scripture is from the times of Jesus.. Both scriptures reveal that God can blind people to give them over to deception .. At the end of the 1000 Year Kingdom satan will be released from His chains in the bottomless pit to go out and deceive the nations and he will leave them to attack the LORD but He and the nations shall be defeated.. and then the final judgement will come.. satan being released by God and going out and deceiving the nations is Gods punishment upon the nations...

Revelation 20: KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Only way satan can be released is if God wills for him to be released.. God is not showing any weakness in doing this.. He is giving rebellious people delusion and giving satan enough rope to hang himself.. God is so awesome He can use the rebellion of those that oppose Him as part of their own judgement..

 

[valiant]

No way... The splitting of the mountain is in alignment of the prophecy of the great earthquake.

LOL are you going to make a vivid apocalyptic description the same as with two final earthquakes. There are many earthquakes in Revelation. Which one are you going to choose.?

There is no mention of an earthquake in Zechariah 14. In fact it is describing the time of the destruction in 70AD. Look at the FACTS and forget your dreams. Zechariah is an apocalyptic book all through.

Zech 12-14 show first the siege of Jerusalem by Antiochus Epiphanes (12.1-4), followed by the rise of Judas Maccabeus (12.5-9). This will be followed by the work of the Spirit (13.1),following the crucifixion (12.10-13.1). More detail of the vanquishing false prophecy leading up to the cross in 13.2-7, followed by the remnant who became Christians in 12.8-9. Then in 13.1-2 the destruction of Jerusalem, followed by YHWH acting against them.

That the details of the last is not to be taken literally is shown by the apocalyptic language in verses 6-7 ..

 

[Adstar]

LOL .

There is absolutely nothing funny about our discussion... Your ""LOL"" is nothing but mockery of a believer in Christ..

Zechariah 14 KJV
4 ¶And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Isaiah 13: KJV
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.


Joel 2: KJV
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

 

[valiant]

There is absolutely nothing funny about our discussion... Your ""LOL"" is nothing but mockery of a believer in Christ..

No, it is a mockery of the attitude of those who make all depend on their particular interpretation of Revelation, the most argued about book in the Bible.

Zechariah 14 KJV

4 ¶And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The mount of olive trees, never elsewhere mentioned in the OT, harks back to the olive trees that represented Zerubbabel and Joshua (chapter 4). God will send His witnesses both north and south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

that earthquake was past history. It is NOT said that this will be an earthquake. God's activity would be greater than an earthquake.

Isaiah 13: KJV
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

A full reading of Isaiah 13 shows that it is speaking in apocalyptic language of the destruction of Babylon in 539 BC. The are many 'days of the LORD' in Scripture. It simple refers to a day when God has His day.

To equate all of them to the final days of the world is laughable. God had many 'days'.

Joel 2: KJV

1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

This was speaking of a plague of locusts which would occur some time in their future. It would be a 'day of the LORD' on Israel. It occurred BEFORE the pouring out of the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is absolutely nothing funny about our discussion... Your ""LOL"" is nothing but mockery of a believer in Christ..

Zechariah 14 KJV
4 ¶And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The fact that he said, As they did in the earthquake under Uzziah the king, Proves this is a literal event, not one to be taken symbolically. Because he not only said what will happen. But said it will be like this literal event..

 

[valiant]

The fact that he said, As they did in the earthquake under Uzziah the king, Proves this is a literal event, not one to be taken symbolically. Because he not only said what will happen. But said it will be like this literal event..

you are sadly lacking in the knowledge of God's ways. It proves nothing of the kind. It merely shows an event of huge magnitude. You totally ignore the apocalyptic, which was common in those days. You would rather resurrect a nation which is one that God has finally rejected as such.

God has only one nation in mind now. the true people of God.

 

[Bookends]

Did jesus have to?

The OT prophets did speak of children, That is good enough for me.

Yes, during the millennium which I believe is now, since Christ's first coming. Did you miss my point even though I know you disagree with it?

 

[Bookends]

If you want to believe this, Thats your choice.

I refuse to take prophecies concerning the return of the lord and make an allegory of them.


If your just going to spiritualize prophesies what good would that do? i am being honest.

Look EG, why did the Jew have such a hard time understanding their own prophecies? Even to this day? Was it because they understood the prophecies in a literal sense? They were looking for a king to rule on the ground in a tangible way, even in a militaristic fashion. Same as you! Paul said they have a veil over them that hinders them from seeing the true meaning of their own prophecies. Why, because most of the prophecies have a spiritual fulfillment and only being in Christ can lift the veil.

Also, you say Christ is coming to earth and all eyes will see it, He'll literally split the mount of Olives in two. This contradicts the clear words of Jesus Himself, Jesus said His kingdom comes without observation. Luke 17:
[h=3]The Coming of the Kingdom[/h][FONT=&quot]20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”[/FONT]

 

[Bookends]

May Christians are walking with Jesus right now (in the spirit). They will recognize a false Christ.

Then Jesus really didn't have to warn them in Matthew 24 did he. Why warn them, or us, however you take it, if it's not possible to be deceived.

 

[eph610]

Allegorical interpretation is not a valid or proper part or form of Bible Hermeneutics and only leads to deception.

There are some allegories in the Bible, but one should not base personal Bible study or Preaching/teaching in Allegory at all.

 

[Bookends]

""" It says all things concerning Jesus was discussed, and they eyes were opened, yet no mention of church gap, a 1000 year reign. Don't you think they want to let us know what Jesus said about it, give us a heads up? Unless, there is nothing written or to be said.""""

It says all things written in the OT about the prophecies contained therein about Jesus was discussed.. And they where.. If one reads all of Zechariah chapter 14 then one can see that After the Day of the Lord (the day of the return of Jesus) a kingdom on earth will be set up centered on Jerusalem and from year to year::::

Zechariah 14:KJV
16 ¶And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The Book of Revelation only gives more clarity to how long this Year to year period will last... It will be 1000 Years..

Well earthly Jerusalem is going to need a tremendous overhaul because it won't be able to fit the whole world in it. Unless of course, the prophet is speaking of Jerusalem our mother, as Paul put it, a spiritual one.

 

[Bookends]

where He will remain except for a visit to gather His own until the founding of the New Jerusalem on a new non-material earth.

Well, I agreed with you up to this point, lol. I think Peter clearly describes the earth remade in the eternal state. But much is to seen.

 

[Bookends]

Oh Boy.. Thanks, But you can have your unfulfilled/fulfilled prophecy.



so they can not be fulfilled today? Jesus said all life on earth could be killed off. Yet that was not possible in his day, yet is more than possible today. Could jesus have spoken of a future event? Of course you spiritualists will never admit this is a possibility.






Jerusalem was never necessary God could have done what he did in another city, Jerusalem (as Daniel said in chapter 9 of his book) is special to God. It is his city, Did Daniel lie?



Revelation. Romans 11.

next.



No paul did not say this, He said this is WHEN Israel will all be saved, Not that this is all be saved.

Isreal is blind in part UNTIL this time, THEN all Israel will be saved.

Israel in this context means the physical children of Bbraham Issaac and Jacob, not the spiritual children of abraham through Christ.




So God can not save a whole nation? Oh ye of little faith. DO you reallise what you just said?

You know whats funny, The rejection of God by isreal and God giving the kingdom to Gentiles was prophesied..

I am sure you will not deny this,, (paul even mentioned it in romans 9 and 10)

But the OT also prophesies Israel will repent, and be restored.

You like 1/2 of the prophesy, But hate the other half..

It all must come true. or God is a liar.





In that senerio I gave, no one would be saved, all would be lost. How could a few be saved if God did not take care of the sin problem?



The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..



I believe Isreal was blinded in part. Meaning some were saved, many were not. But one day, when the time of the gentile is complete, All Israel will be saved (the blindness will be removed)





1. The old never saved anyone
2. Israel being in her land never saved anyone
3. Israel receiving the promises never saved anyone
4. Israel being restored will never save anyone.

why are you trying to mix the old way with the promise God made to a nation of people? they do not mix, nor are they reliant on each other. This is proven by the fact Israel continually disobeyed the covenant, Yet God allowed them to live in there land until AD 70 when according to lev 26, He said enough is enough, I promised to bless you, But I also promised to punish you.



Stalin, Hitler, Huessein, Just three of these "wild animals" who were not held in check, whos ruthless and evil tendancies were (in at least two cases) were felt worldwide.


and this list would be almost endless of these evil LEADERS the past 2000 plus years since Christ left.

Yep. God is usin ghis rod of iron to stamp out evil now..

smh!!




Revelation is the NT

so again, You are wrong.

second, the nt does not have to say EVERYTHING about the OT prophets.. The NT concerned buidling up a new church and helping them on the way, Not telling them about future events, (although revelation did do this)

A lot to respond too. I break it down to this, Where did Jesus say all would be killed on the earth?

OT Jerusalem is a type to the anti-type Heavenly Jerusalem, so why wouldn't God speak of the earthly Jerusalem as he did, it represents something more glorious and greater.

 

[Bookends]

Oh Boy.. Thanks, But you can have your unfulfilled/fulfilled prophecy.



so they can not be fulfilled today? Jesus said all life on earth could be killed off. Yet that was not possible in his day, yet is more than possible today. Could jesus have spoken of a future event? Of course you spiritualists will never admit this is a possibility.






Jerusalem was never necessary God could have done what he did in another city, Jerusalem (as Daniel said in chapter 9 of his book) is special to God. It is his city, Did Daniel lie?



Revelation. Romans 11.

next.



No paul did not say this, He said this is WHEN Israel will all be saved, Not that this is all be saved.

Isreal is blind in part UNTIL this time, THEN all Israel will be saved.

Israel in this context means the physical children of Bbraham Issaac and Jacob, not the spiritual children of abraham through Christ.




So God can not save a whole nation? Oh ye of little faith. DO you reallise what you just said?

You know whats funny, The rejection of God by isreal and God giving the kingdom to Gentiles was prophesied..

I am sure you will not deny this,, (paul even mentioned it in romans 9 and 10)

But the OT also prophesies Israel will repent, and be restored.

You like 1/2 of the prophesy, But hate the other half..

It all must come true. or God is a liar.





In that senerio I gave, no one would be saved, all would be lost. How could a few be saved if God did not take care of the sin problem?



The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..



I believe Isreal was blinded in part. Meaning some were saved, many were not. But one day, when the time of the gentile is complete, All Israel will be saved (the blindness will be removed)





1. The old never saved anyone
2. Israel being in her land never saved anyone
3. Israel receiving the promises never saved anyone
4. Israel being restored will never save anyone.

why are you trying to mix the old way with the promise God made to a nation of people? they do not mix, nor are they reliant on each other. This is proven by the fact Israel continually disobeyed the covenant, Yet God allowed them to live in there land until AD 70 when according to lev 26, He said enough is enough, I promised to bless you, But I also promised to punish you.



Stalin, Hitler, Huessein, Just three of these "wild animals" who were not held in check, whos ruthless and evil tendancies were (in at least two cases) were felt worldwide.


and this list would be almost endless of these evil LEADERS the past 2000 plus years since Christ left.

Yep. God is usin ghis rod of iron to stamp out evil now..

smh!!




Revelation is the NT

so again, You are wrong.

second, the nt does not have to say EVERYTHING about the OT prophets.. The NT concerned buidling up a new church and helping them on the way, Not telling them about future events, (although revelation did do this)

You fail to see that all Israel now is Jews and gentiles who repented, they are brought together in Christ and called the Israel of God. Were not the 1st Century Jews who believed still Jews and the remnant of Israel? In which gentiles added to their numbers, the other fold that Jesus spoke of, who He added to the flock, ONE flock?