Jesus warned us not too look for Him in Jerusalem

[Bookends]

Oh Boy.. Thanks, But you can have your unfulfilled/fulfilled prophecy.



so they can not be fulfilled today? Jesus said all life on earth could be killed off. Yet that was not possible in his day, yet is more than possible today. Could jesus have spoken of a future event? Of course you spiritualists will never admit this is a possibility.






Jerusalem was never necessary God could have done what he did in another city, Jerusalem (as Daniel said in chapter 9 of his book) is special to God. It is his city, Did Daniel lie?



Revelation. Romans 11.

next.



No paul did not say this, He said this is WHEN Israel will all be saved, Not that this is all be saved.

Isreal is blind in part UNTIL this time, THEN all Israel will be saved.

Israel in this context means the physical children of Bbraham Issaac and Jacob, not the spiritual children of abraham through Christ.




So God can not save a whole nation? Oh ye of little faith. DO you reallise what you just said?

You know whats funny, The rejection of God by isreal and God giving the kingdom to Gentiles was prophesied..

I am sure you will not deny this,, (paul even mentioned it in romans 9 and 10)

But the OT also prophesies Israel will repent, and be restored.

You like 1/2 of the prophesy, But hate the other half..

It all must come true. or God is a liar.





In that senerio I gave, no one would be saved, all would be lost. How could a few be saved if God did not take care of the sin problem?



The church does not replace the OT prophecies of Isreal, who in sin were scattered all over the earth, then in a day of rentance, restored to her place.

Please..



I believe Isreal was blinded in part. Meaning some were saved, many were not. But one day, when the time of the gentile is complete, All Israel will be saved (the blindness will be removed)





1. The old never saved anyone
2. Israel being in her land never saved anyone
3. Israel receiving the promises never saved anyone
4. Israel being restored will never save anyone.

why are you trying to mix the old way with the promise God made to a nation of people? they do not mix, nor are they reliant on each other. This is proven by the fact Israel continually disobeyed the covenant, Yet God allowed them to live in there land until AD 70 when according to lev 26, He said enough is enough, I promised to bless you, But I also promised to punish you.



Stalin, Hitler, Huessein, Just three of these "wild animals" who were not held in check, whos ruthless and evil tendancies were (in at least two cases) were felt worldwide.


and this list would be almost endless of these evil LEADERS the past 2000 plus years since Christ left.

Yep. God is usin ghis rod of iron to stamp out evil now..

smh!!




Revelation is the NT

so again, You are wrong.

second, the nt does not have to say EVERYTHING about the OT prophets.. The NT concerned buidling up a new church and helping them on the way, Not telling them about future events, (although revelation did do this)

I agree that the Church does not replace Israel, the Church was added to Israel, believing Israel, the remnant in which were the 1st Century believing Jews...The Church is Israel, it's a continuation of the true Israel of God. I guess you need God to reveal this to you. I am praying for you, Oh God, please let EG understand the mystery.

[h=1]Ephesians 3New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Mystery Revealed[/h][FONT=&quot]3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.[/FONT]

 

[Bookends]

I prefer to believe Jesus and the Apostles in their interpretation. Gong back to a physical separate Israel is to deny Ephesians (2.11-22) where God made both ONE. It is also to sideline the purposes of God.[/B][/COLOR]




It was feasible in His day. But Jesus did not say that all life would be killed off, before He did it at the end of time. He merely pointed out that the future was bleak. It was bleak in His day. The 1st century saw appalling disasters both military and natural. Read Tacitus. It would be equally bleak through the centuries. But God will NEVER allow all life to be killed off. That is your opinion based on a wrong interpretation of Revelation. His kingly rule will triumph to the end.







Daniel pointed out that it would be finally destroyed in 70 ad as far as God was concerned. It is no longer special to God. He gave His opinion of it in Gal 4.20 ff. Satan as kept alive the myth of Jerusalem for his purposes. He has you hood winked



There is no mention of a physical Jerusalem as being God's city in either Revelation or Romans. No wonder you had no answer.




He said they are not all Israel who are Israel (Rom 9.6). He goes on to point out that there is a remnant of Israel which will have Gentiles grafted in so that they BECOME Israel (Rom 11.12-24). Paul nowhere mentions Jerusalem or an earthly Israel reigning on earth. He must have forgotten it LOL



If this means all natural Israel it contradicts 9.27, only a remnant will be saved.




They are NOT all Israel who are Israel (9.6). And if Israel means physical blood descendants of Abraham most Jews are excluded, They are not physical Blood descendants of Abraham. It is wishful thinking, READ THE SCRIPTURES. Some were born of the large number of servants Abraham had. Others were born of the mixed multitude (Ex 12.38).. Others were descended from pagans who became Israelites (Ex 12.48). Others were born of Edomite or Gentile stock who were forced to become Israelites under for example, Hyrcanus or Aristobulus . The Jews were very mixed race. If it just means a taint of Abraham, most of us have a taint of Abraham. So who are physical descended from Abraham.?





He never has done. And the assumption is He will go on like that. Only those who believe will be saved. He will not force it on any nation, especially one of mixed blood like Israel.




In Rom 9-11 He promises that gentiles will become a part of the olive tree that is Israel (Jer 11.16). You have misunderstood Rom 9-11.



It nowhere says that Israel as a whole will repent and be restored. It only promises the remnant. See Rom 9.




you mean you only accept half and ignore the rest.



what must all come true? Your interpretation. You americans are too fond of calling God a liar if He doesn't agree with you, I would be careful if I were you.




but your scenario is NOT God's



Israel were restored after the Exile. But they failed again, Then God produced His new nation, the congregation or church.

Hey, I'm an American!!!

 

[Bookends]

1. They already were one, All people who came to God by faith were one in Christ in the old and the new,, (did you know king davids grandmother was a gentile?? )
2. Gods promise concerning the nation of Israel had nothing to do with salvation. So please. Stop trying to mix them, That is where YOUR INTERPRETATION is flawed.




Oh, So tell me, what man held great power he could kill off all life on earth. what would happen, the last two solders alive take their sword and fight it until the death? Please!!



Jesus said plainly, if he did not return, NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE.

That means all live on earth, not just human life. would survive what woudl happen if God let it go on.



1. Daniel prayed to God. a prayer for his people. that god would have mercy on HIS people and HIS holy city.
2. Gabriel told Daniel the city would be destroyed in 70 ad, and it would remain that way until a time determined by God himself..




the context of daniels 70 weeks....

Dan 9: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate.

Next....



Paul said ALL isreal will be saved, Paul also said they (isreal) are my enemy, Is the church your enemy Valient? Can you really sit there and tell me you read Romans 11 and not see this major point?

romans 11: [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake

If "all Isreal" as you claim is the church, You just called the church YOUR ENEMY!







No, 9: 27 says there will always be a remnant. There is no need for a remnant if God is done with a nation, the fact God says there will always be a remnant, PROVES god is not done with them as a nation. otherwise, he would let them die and cease to exist.





Roman 9 is concerning the unbelief of Isreal. Not the restorationof Isreal. Two seperate events.. You can not use romans 9 to interpret romans 11.



Who said God forces? Get real man, Your excuses are gettin worse.




No you have, because you try to use romans 9 to interpret romans 11..

Romans 9 is to prove that being a child of Isreal does not mean you get an automatic in, and that gentiles were prophesied in the OT to be part of the promise of grace.

Rm 11 answers the question, Is God done with Isreal.

2 different context.

Your the one who got it all messed up





Rom 11, All Isreal will be saved, At this time, they are your enemy,

Stop it, your making yourself look bad.






Your the one who did that (smh)





If God said this will happen.

and it does not happen,

God is a liar.

anyone is a liar who makes a stament that is not fact.

get over yourself




keep believing that, thats your right. it does not make it true





Boy you have a hatred don't you.

news flash, Lev 26 is just as relevant today as it was when God gave it to moses.

God did not make a new church, He gave control of it over to the gentile. but it is the same church,

All who are saved by faith belong to it.

Wow, are you kidding me, God's promise to Abraham and his Seed (Christ) all about salvation.

 

[Bookends]

So at last you agree that Israel is the church. well done.

LOL, good job...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, are you kidding me, God's promise to Abraham and his Seed (Christ) all about salvation.

So God promising a certain family land has everything to do with salvation? I guess every jew will get to heaven, they are right..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that the Church does not replace Israel, the Church was added to Israel, believing Israel, the remnant in which were the 1st Century believing Jews...The Church is Israel, it's a continuation of the true Israel of God. I guess you need God to reveal this to you. I am praying for you, Oh God, please let EG understand the mystery.

Ephesians 3New King James Version (NKJV)

The Mystery Revealed

3 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

What mystery? It was not mystery that Gentiles would not only be added to the body, but would actually take over the body, while Israel would be set back (blinded in part)

Who were the gentiles Jonah was sent to ? "Ninevah" Who were king davids grandmother, and many other gentiles were were added to the true body of believers in the OT.

you think the new is different than the old? People were saved the same way, Jew and gentile alike.

Promises were made to Isreal. that have never been made to the church,, The church did not replace Israel in those promises those promises are still in effect They are just not in motion at the present time because Israel is still in sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A lot to respond too. I break it down to this, Where did Jesus say all would be killed on the earth?

OT Jerusalem is a type to the anti-type Heavenly Jerusalem, so why wouldn't God speak of the earthly Jerusalem as he did, it represents something more glorious and greater.

The new jerusalem does not come until after the last battle. After Satan is re-released and unbound, and after this heaven and earth are destroyed.

No one said all would be killed on earth. Jesus said he who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[Bookends]

So God promising a certain family land has everything to do with salvation? I guess every jew will get to heaven, they are right..

I guess the only thing left to do is answer with the Word. Those in Christ are co-inheritors of this promise. Again, Paul says it right here, the promise has a spiritual fulfillment.

Galatians 3
[h=3]The Changeless Promise[/h][FONT=&quot]15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.[/FONT]

 

[Bookends]

So God promising a certain family land has everything to do with salvation? I guess every jew will get to heaven, they are right..

NM, I didn't realize you were referring to the land promise.

 

[Bookends]

The new jerusalem does not come until after the last battle. After Satan is re-released and unbound, and after this heaven and earth are destroyed.

No one said all would be killed on earth. Jesus said he who endures to the end will be saved.

I guess we'll be in disagreement on this. When Jesus comes back He'll hand the kingdom over to God according Paul, that's plain as day. This suggest to me that we are already in that kingdom. John is seeing a picture of the Church (new Jerusalem) being established from heaven, it's a spiritual event.

Hebrews 12:22
[FONT=&quot]22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]heavenly Jerusalem[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [same Jerusalem to me][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot], to an innumerable company of angels, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.[/FONT]

 

[Connock]

Question: For those you believe Christ will come again to physically rule in Jerusalem, how will you know if he is not an impostor? Doesn't Jesus warn us not too look for Him there?

Look at his feet.
If they're touching the ground, it ain't Him.
(unless you're at the Mount of Olives)

 

[Adstar]

Yes, during the millennium which I believe is now, since Christ's first coming. Did you miss my point even though I know you disagree with it?

During the Millennium satan is bound in the bottomless pit and he cannot tempt or effect people on earth.. Do you think satan is currently bound? ... I see satan at work in this world right now..

 

[valiant]

Hey, I'm an American!!!

I hope you have such reverence for God and His Name that you would not even hint at the fact that God is a l--r. It seems to be an American trait.

 

[valiant]

During the Millennium satan is bound in the bottomless pit and he cannot tempt or effect people on earth.. Do you think satan is currently bound? ... I see satan at work in this world right now..

yes but he is bound (Matt 12.29) otherwise the Gospel would not be spreading see also rev 9.11

 

[valiant]

Allegorical interpretation is not a valid or proper part or form of Bible Hermeneutics and only leads to deception.

There are some allegories in the Bible, but one should not base personal Bible study or Preaching/teaching in Allegory at all.

And who says so? although in fact we do not allegories, we interpret as it was intended just like Paul did,

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by eph610 This also rightly divides with Acts 1...the angel told the disciples he would return as he left, and Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives, or Mt. Olivet...

and you expect him to come on a horse? That is not the way that He left. You take a general statement and expect the details to be the same *(when it suits you)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess the only thing left to do is answer with the Word. Those in Christ are co-inheritors of this promise. Again, Paul says it right here, the promise has a spiritual fulfillment.

Galatians 3
The Changeless Promise

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

then the church should be in jerusalem. Jerusalem should be out capitol city. And we should be living in peace from our enemies, in the land God gave us.

Oh wait. THE PROMISES ARE SEPERATE AND NOT RELATED.

Your scripture means nothing, because the promises are not the same

God made a promise to abraham which concerns us "In you shall ALL THE NATIONS of the WORLD be blessed

Then he made a different, seperate promise, to one family (and to your seed I give this land as an inheritance FOREVER.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NM, I didn't realize you were referring to the land promise.

yes, Sorry if you misunderstood me, and if I was not clear. forgive me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess we'll be in disagreement on this. When Jesus comes back He'll hand the kingdom over to God according Paul, that's plain as day. This suggest to me that we are already in that kingdom. John is seeing a picture of the Church (new Jerusalem) being established from heaven, it's a spiritual event.

Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem [same Jerusalem to me], to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews is God speaking to Israel in their language, Jerusalem was where the temple was Where God was Where the atonement was (Daniel even faced jerusalem when he prayed)

The new jerusalem is heaven, Where we face were our salvation and our high priest is.. To me, that is what Heb 12 is talking about...

 

[valiant]

then the church should be in jerusalem. Jerusalem should be out capitol city. And we should be living in peace from our enemies, in the land God gave us.

Oh wait. THE PROMISES ARE SEPERATE AND NOT RELATED.

Your scripture means nothing, because the promises are not the same

God made a promise to abraham which concerns us "In you shall ALL THE NATIONS of the WORLD be blessed

Then he made a different, seperate promise, to one family (and to your seed I give this land as an inheritance FOREVER.

the problem is that olam does NOT mean for ever. It merely meant into the hidden future. its root meaning is 'hidden',