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awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Perhaps you could ask questions ?

:eek: LOL

What you are offering sounds just as bizarre as what you are accrediting to me. Study to show oneself approved unto God .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The above verse applies to the Son of man, Jesus the first born among brothers and sister in Christ just as us son of man in other scriptures is refence to apostles who declare the will of another called prophets

There are godly men, God working in Man. (2 Corinthians 4:7) But no GOD MAN. And no fleshly infallible interpreter as a umpire (daysman) that sits between God not seen and man seen

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

What is bizarre is that men think God is a man rather than he works in men . Jesus as a a apostle was a man sent to the will of the father ,he had no power of His own. (2 Corinthians 4:7) He was strengthened by the father that worked in Jesus to both will and do the good pleasure of the father. He did not do the desires or the lust of the flesh.

Before he left he reminded us the one time demonstration of the unseen work of the father (the flesh profits for zero)The demonstration is over. We walk by faith the unseen God who works in us..

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

A little homework for you, reconcile the three verses.

All flesh is corrupted. His flesh typified as sinful a must, is not longer here. And no man has received the propmised new body .
I was going to respond to this but in further contemplation, I will not. I can't even think on how to begin here. So many verses ripped from there context.
 
Aug 12, 2020
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The kingdom comes not after the temporal things seen.(observation) those of men.

Yes, he is not suggesting we make the law of faith (the unseen eternal) without effect,

Thomas doubted. Doubt is not the opposite of faith .No faith is, not little faith, none.

Because the word of God is Spirit and life giving .There were two commandments the first a sarcastic rebuke. (Sarcasm = meaning tearing of the flesh or get under ones skin ) and the other a loving commandment; "Believe and be not faithless" .Therefore having the power to beleive as a anchor to ones soul . The prophecy being filled. It filled Thomas with the Holy Spirit and moved by the Spirit Thomas declared . . "My Lord and my God". God working in Thomas to both will and do the good pleasure.

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing

Again he was not destroying the faith as a work or labor principle he was building on it.

No man can serve two masters in that way. (1) the flesh the things seen and (2) the unseen eternal Spirit.
I appreciate you gentlemen referencing thomas, i have to admit, though, i am ignorant of the idea he is called an observer. From my post and from my concerns i use these pseudonyms to name the unknown. observer, narrator, covetous, someone, something, yakuza. These i hold out as indefinite articles of one who is responsible for misleading and oppressing men and dividing and denying christ' life. The one he had before the world began.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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I believe all division is of the enemy of man. I think they merely descibe the three manifestations of divinity in the bible.
Is christ divided? were you baptized into the name of paul? was paul crucified for you?
For the word of God sharper than a two edged sword dividing soul and spirit.
Thanks for your response but I still see no reason to continue this discussion. All I can think to say is: If it were not for the grace of God, so go I.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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The debate topic is jesus man/god duality. My two cents are- God was jesus, jesus was not God- You trust God, trust in me also; Through Christ God made the world...
Hi jcollins, I appreciate your posts .. Why did God not redeem Adam in the garden ? And what would it take to restore/redeem him/all man ?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
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Yes wondering, marveling is for those wonder .Faith for those given the understanding of God who faithfully works in us.

The sign of the rebuke?
How about you learn how to write complete sentences?

Signs as metaphors follow after one that can believe in God not seen . We do not seek after them to self edify oneself. Christians understand after the unseen things of God, things of faith.
Your "doctrine" is built on air and wind, not on Scripture.

The context of that parable in John 20 is not . . its OK to start lying rumor's like that of Peter as a oral traditions of men . Christ did the work of rebuking Peter. If every time the Holy Spirit was recorded dismissing lies the whole world would not hold the volumes that could of been written One warning should be enough .Peter had plenty
Goodness, man, it's not a parable! As for your ideas about context, they have no basis in the Scripture itself (surprise, surprise!).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
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As it relates to the topic of man/god duality in christ i must relate my concern deifying christ or denying his godwill totally are meant respectively to remove from your ability to do what he did or relegate his ministry and death to divinity and attribute those sufferings to godwill, revealing a subversion in our testament which i can find commonalities of in literature and the arts in general showing a corruption and state of entropy endemic to all human endevour with the goal of mocking God at a level of which even the very wise could not understand, as it is based on falsehood including the debate we are having... right.... now!
Wow... try reading that aloud without taking a breath. WAAAAY too many words.

By the way, it's also meaningless bafflagab.

Its no good its no good he says, then off he goes and boasts of his purchase.
Are you attributing that to Christ's purchase of mankind on the cross? If so, you're way off base. It's a proverb, not a prophecy.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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I appreciate you gentlemen referencing thomas, i have to admit, though, i am ignorant of the idea he is called an observer. From my post and from my concerns i use these pseudonyms to name the unknown. observer, narrator, covetous, someone, something, yakuza. These i hold out as indefinite articles of one who is responsible for misleading and oppressing men and dividing and denying christ' life. The one he had before the world began.
When Thomas saw Jesus and the nail prints in His hands he said ''my Lord and my God'' .. Do you think he said it like cursing, taking the Lords name in vain ? Or do you think he suddenly recognized that it was indeed Jesus ?..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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believe all division is of the enemy of man
What do you do with this?

Matthew 10:34-39
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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Hi jcollins, I appreciate your posts .. Why did God not redeem Adam in the garden ? And what would it take to restore/redeem him/all man ?
God the Father does not, can not, or need to break His Word ... Jesus is God come in the flesh, the Word become flesh, Immanuel .... Jesus become God in the flesh , born of a virgin and son of David .. God the Son was equipped with the proper amount of the written Word of God to learn as a man all He needed to develop and have full knowledge with understanding . He came and lived as a man from cradle to grave, perfect .. We are the mutant imperfect sinners not Him and don't forget it .. And He loved us enough to die both spiritually and physically as the Lamb of God for us while crucified on the cross for us .. Jesus had to come and become flesh to do that, God the Father is Spirit, God the Son is born of the Spirit and flesh so He could enter physical creation to dwell with us and take us back to eternal life after physical creation is done ''the End of Time'' The God you and many others seem to need to see is Jesus the Lion of the Tribe of Judah .. But He already did the hard part imo and already proved His is the eternal Lamb and Lion .. Same one God with a name given before His virgin birth ..
 
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Wow... try reading that aloud without taking a breath. WAAAAY too many words.

By the way, it's also meaningless bafflagab.


Are you attributing that to Christ's purchase of mankind on the cross? If so, you're way off base. It's a proverb, not a prophecy.
ikr, i thought my brain was gonna explode trying to convey a honest concern, thank you for your reassurance.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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I am going to give you the most valuable phrase i have learned thus far from all language. A distillation of all faith and love and angst reduced from the entirety of my lexicon. I dont know. Now, with this preface, and, having piqued your interest i had to dash it upon my ignorance. I hope you can relate to my intentions, which are; to share said ignorance with whoever will listen and perhaps find contemporaries who are as eager as i am, if we must live, to live in the truth, as it lives in us.
Thank you for your honesty.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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That is a pretty decent explanation, however I have to take exception to you saying this is "not about salvation". ...

This rejection is parallel to the one our Lord gave in Mat. 7:21-23:

(Mat 7:21-23) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I am well aware of your dilemma and your objection is in order. None other than the Lord Himself gives the wording in this Parable of the Virgins. The points I made stand. Even if half of them are valid the case is made. So my answer is twofold:
First, we need to define the Kingdom of Heaven. Now, I will not discuss at length that the "Kingdom was at hand" when John started to announce Jesus. I will not discuss at length the "Kingdom in you" and the Kingdom is come when Jesus cast out demons with the finger of God, and the Kingdom that is the Church (Rev.1:7). The Parable of the Virgins speaks of a Wedding Feast that only occurs when Christ returns, and so the Kingdom it explains is that Kingdom that Christ sets up on earth after Armageddon. It is that Kingdom that Daniel predicted when the Gentile Government is crushed (Chapter 2), and that Kingdom that follows the demise of the Beast. It is that Kingdom that our Lord prayed for in Matthew 6:10 that was still to come.

The definition of a Kingdom is an area or sphere where a certain king resides and enforces his rules or laws. The Kingdom OF Heaven is that Kingdom that proceeds out OF Heaven, to earth, where Jesus, King of the Jews and King of kings, will RESIDE and ENFORCE the rul of law that is presently in heaven. I am aware that contemporary Christianity thinks that somehow it is the Kingdom IN Heaven. But the overwhelming proof of scripture is that Jesus Christ will return to earth and set up His Kingdom here. Both Old Testament prophets, and New testify to this. The gospel of Matthew reveals this Kingdom in the most detail. You will, if you study the grammar of Matthew, soon realize that the rebirth needed to be eligible to SEE this Kingdom (Jn.3:3), is, in Matthew, TAKEN FOR ALREADY GRANTED. The terms, "my Father", "your Father" and "our Father" can only be true if the disciples were BORN of this Father. Added to this, our Lord clearly said that He spoke in Parables so Israel would NOT understand the mysteries of the Kingdom. Matthew and its Parables are for the Church ONLY.

If this be so, then the act of rebirth, effected by FAITH (Jn.1:12-13), and for having God's Life (Jn.3:15-16) is a QUALIFICATION, or matter of ELIGIBILITY for this Kingdom. In other words, the processes wrought by FAITH, sins atoned for, rebirth, eternal life, sonship to God, justification, sanctification and reconciliation ARE FOR THE GOAL OF PARTICIPATING IN THE KINGDOM. And every mention of participating in, entering, or inheriting this Kingdom is TIED TO WORKS. Check for yourself. Why is this so? It is because the Gentile government of this earth from dam to Joshua, and Nebuchadnezzar to the beast is permeated with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. And when Christ sets up His Kingdom on earth, the name and reputation of God is attached to this Kingdom, and our Lord CANNOT allow this Kingdom, which carries His Father's Name - to have bad rulers. Thus, every Christian, after receiving the wonderful benefits that FAITH brings, must undergo a rigorous TRAINING in utter righteousness and utter obedience to Christ. Those who aspire to be co-kings with Christ in the next age, must be transformed from self-seekers to those who ONLY seek the will of God. So the bottom line for entering, or inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven ON EARTH, is OBEDIENCE motivated by a LOVE-RELATIONSHIP with Jesus.

Participating in the Kingdom of Heaven is a REWARD FOR WORKS OF OBEDIENCE. Check every mention of this Kingdom and see for yourself.

This brings us to your example of Matthew 7:21-23. Here again are my observations. I propose them because you are quite able to judge for yourself. A detective only produces his observations to the District Attorney or Public Prosecutor, and it is they who decide. I observe the following in Matthew 7:21-23
  1. The so-called "Sermon on the Mount" is one long discourse that covers Chapter 5, 6 and 7 of Matthew
  2. If so, Jesus only taught His DISCIPLES. The grammar of Matthew 5:1-2 shows that although many heard Jesus, His teaching was only for His disciples. The "them" of verse 2 is, by all rules of grammar, only applicable to the disciples of verse 1
  3. This is further strengthened by the use of "our Father", "YOUR Father" and "My Father".
  4. The Law is NOT removed for Israel, but a higher standard is taught for the DISCIPLE of Jesus
  5. So when we come to Chapter 7:21 our Lord is still ONLY TEACHING disciples
  6. Verse 21 gives the time of this judgement - "in that day". The "day" is that day when men make claim to entering, or inheriting the kingdom defined above.
  7. As stated above, only those who have been BORN of the Father are eligible for this Kingdom. So this judgement is ONLY for DISCIPLE. This we see in Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10
  8. Those facing the judgment KNOW and RECOGNIZE Jesus. The call Him "LORD! LORD!
  9. Those facing judgment testify to many wonderful works during their lifetime IN HIS NAME. That is, they were well informed of Jesus in their lifetimes
  10. Those facing Judgement cast out demons. According to Mark 16:17 this a a SIGN that a man is a Christian
  11. Those facing judgement had the power of God because even our Lord Jesus cast out demons "by the finger of God"
  12. Those facing judgment must belong to Christ's side for Christ Himself said that Satan would never cast out demons as it would destroy his kingdom
  13. Those facing judgment are not judged by their FAITH. The requirement is "Did you do the WILL of my Father"
  14. Those facing judgment offer their WORKS "in Jesus' Name, and Christ, the judge, agrees that WORKS are required. He even continues in verse 24 with this same requirement
  15. Those facing judgment FAIL because they did WORKS OF INIQUITY
  16. Those facing judgment FAIL because they had no intimate relationship with Christ.
Before I say why they are accused of INIQUITY, let us agree that SIXTEEN PROOFS all show that these were (i) disciples of Jesus, (ii) Christians and were (iii) sons of God. You are the judge. Even if only eight are valid, that is massive overwhelming proof that the Lord was judging Christians. So why is doing all these wondrous works INIQUITY??? The accusation by our Lord, the Judge, is NOT that the works where INIQUITOUS. He says that the MEN judged were WORKERS OF INIQUITY. And the reason is given. The WORKS are not called into question BUT WHETHER THEY DID THE WILL OF THE FATHER!!!

But you will immediately say; "Is not doing miracles and casting out demons the will of God?" YES! BUT WHEN HE COMMANDS IT! Did not our Lord Jesus command us disciples to preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth (Act.1:8)? Paul took this command to heart and we take up the narrative in Acts 16:6-7.

6 "Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not."


Why? Because the WILL OF GOD was that they go to Macedonia! If Paul had ignored the Holy Spirit, he would have fulfilled Acts 1:8, BUT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORKER OF INIQUITY. It was not the works that would of made Paul a rebel. It was the refusal of the Father's WILL.

As a detective, I propose to you, for your consideration, that those of Matthew 7:21-23 were (i) Disciples, (ii) sons of God, (iii) had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for power, (iv) knew who the Lord was, and (v) did works that only a Christian can do. I also propose that they had no working relationship with Jesus. The word rendered "knew" in verse 23 in the Greek, does not mean that our Lord did not have "intellectual knowledge" of them. It means that He had no INTIMATE knowledge of them. This Greek word is first ever used in the New Testament to show that Joseph had no sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born (Matt.1:25). It means intimate experimental and experiential knowledge. These Christians did the works because they could. They had no intimate loving relationship with Christ, their Head. They were loose cannons.

They are refused ENTRY into the Kingdom. At no time are they removed from their status of being disciples. They were just LOUSY DISCIPLES and Christ cannot afford loose cannons in His Kingdom on earth.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
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I am well aware of your dilemma and your objection is in order. None other than the Lord Himself gives the wording in this Parable of the Virgins. The points I made stand. Even if half of them are valid the case is made. So my answer is twofold:
First, we need to define the Kingdom of Heaven. Now, I will not discuss at length that the "Kingdom was at hand" when John started to announce Jesus. I will not discuss at length the "Kingdom in you" and the Kingdom is come when Jesus cast out demons with the finger of God, and the Kingdom that is the Church (Rev.1:7). The Parable of the Virgins speaks of a Wedding Feast that only occurs when Christ returns, and so the Kingdom it explains is that Kingdom that Christ sets up on earth after Armageddon. It is that Kingdom that Daniel predicted when the Gentile Government is crushed (Chapter 2), and that Kingdom that follows the demise of the Beast. It is that Kingdom that our Lord prayed for in Matthew 6:10 that was still to come.

The definition of a Kingdom is an area or sphere where a certain king resides and enforces his rules or laws. The Kingdom OF Heaven is that Kingdom that proceeds out OF Heaven, to earth, where Jesus, King of the Jews and King of kings, will RESIDE and ENFORCE the rul of law that is presently in heaven. I am aware that contemporary Christianity thinks that somehow it is the Kingdom IN Heaven. But the overwhelming proof of scripture is that Jesus Christ will return to earth and set up His Kingdom here. Both Old Testament prophets, and New testify to this. The gospel of Matthew reveals this Kingdom in the most detail. You will, if you study the grammar of Matthew, soon realize that the rebirth needed to be eligible to SEE this Kingdom (Jn.3:3), is, in Matthew, TAKEN FOR ALREADY GRANTED. The terms, "my Father", "your Father" and "our Father" can only be true if the disciples were BORN of this Father. Added to this, our Lord clearly said that He spoke in Parables so Israel would NOT understand the mysteries of the Kingdom. Matthew and its Parables are for the Church ONLY.

If this be so, then the act of rebirth, effected by FAITH (Jn.1:12-13), and for having God's Life (Jn.3:15-16) is a QUALIFICATION, or matter of ELIGIBILITY for this Kingdom. In other words, the processes wrought by FAITH, sins atoned for, rebirth, eternal life, sonship to God, justification, sanctification and reconciliation ARE FOR THE GOAL OF PARTICIPATING IN THE KINGDOM. And every mention of participating in, entering, or inheriting this Kingdom is TIED TO WORKS. Check for yourself. Why is this so? It is because the Gentile government of this earth from dam to Joshua, and Nebuchadnezzar to the beast is permeated with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. And when Christ sets up His Kingdom on earth, the name and reputation of God is attached to this Kingdom, and our Lord CANNOT allow this Kingdom, which carries His Father's Name - to have bad rulers. Thus, every Christian, after receiving the wonderful benefits that FAITH brings, must undergo a rigorous TRAINING in utter righteousness and utter obedience to Christ. Those who aspire to be co-kings with Christ in the next age, must be transformed from self-seekers to those who ONLY seek the will of God. So the bottom line for entering, or inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven ON EARTH, is OBEDIENCE motivated by a LOVE-RELATIONSHIP with Jesus.

Participating in the Kingdom of Heaven is a REWARD FOR WORKS OF OBEDIENCE. Check every mention of this Kingdom and see for yourself.

This brings us to your example of Matthew 7:21-23. Here again are my observations. I propose them because you are quite able to judge for yourself. A detective only produces his observations to the District Attorney or Public Prosecutor, and it is they who decide. I observe the following in Matthew 7:21-23
  1. The so-called "Sermon on the Mount" is one long discourse that covers Chapter 5, 6 and 7 of Matthew
  2. If so, Jesus only taught His DISCIPLES. The grammar of Matthew 5:1-2 shows that although many heard Jesus, His teaching was only for His disciples. The "them" of verse 2 is, by all rules of grammar, only applicable to the disciples of verse 1
  3. This is further strengthened by the use of "our Father", "YOUR Father" and "My Father".
  4. The Law is NOT removed for Israel, but a higher standard is taught for the DISCIPLE of Jesus
  5. So when we come to Chapter 7:21 our Lord is still ONLY TEACHING disciples
  6. Verse 21 gives the time of this judgement - "in that day". The "day" is that day when men make claim to entering, or inheriting the kingdom defined above.
  7. As stated above, only those who have been BORN of the Father are eligible for this Kingdom. So this judgement is ONLY for DISCIPLE. This we see in Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10
  8. Those facing the judgment KNOW and RECOGNIZE Jesus. The call Him "LORD! LORD!
  9. Those facing judgment testify to many wonderful works during their lifetime IN HIS NAME. That is, they were well informed of Jesus in their lifetimes
  10. Those facing Judgement cast out demons. According to Mark 16:17 this a a SIGN that a man is a Christian
  11. Those facing judgement had the power of God because even our Lord Jesus cast out demons "by the finger of God"
  12. Those facing judgment must belong to Christ's side for Christ Himself said that Satan would never cast out demons as it would destroy his kingdom
  13. Those facing judgment are not judged by their FAITH. The requirement is "Did you do the WILL of my Father"
  14. Those facing judgment offer their WORKS "in Jesus' Name, and Christ, the judge, agrees that WORKS are required. He even continues in verse 24 with this same requirement
  15. Those facing judgment FAIL because they did WORKS OF INIQUITY
  16. Those facing judgment FAIL because they had no intimate relationship with Christ.
Before I say why they are accused of INIQUITY, let us agree that SIXTEEN PROOFS all show that these were (i) disciples of Jesus, (ii) Christians and were (iii) sons of God. You are the judge. Even if only eight are valid, that is massive overwhelming proof that the Lord was judging Christians. So why is doing all these wondrous works INIQUITY??? The accusation by our Lord, the Judge, is NOT that the works where INIQUITOUS. He says that the MEN judged were WORKERS OF INIQUITY. And the reason is given. The WORKS are not called into question BUT WHETHER THEY DID THE WILL OF THE FATHER!!!

But you will immediately say; "Is not doing miracles and casting out demons the will of God?" YES! BUT WHEN HE COMMANDS IT! Did not our Lord Jesus command us disciples to preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth (Act.1:8)? Paul took this command to heart and we take up the narrative in Acts 16:6-7.

6 "Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not."


Why? Because the WILL OF GOD was that they go to Macedonia! If Paul had ignored the Holy Spirit, he would have fulfilled Acts 1:8, BUT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORKER OF INIQUITY. It was not the works that would of made Paul a rebel. It was the refusal of the Father's WILL.

As a detective, I propose to you, for your consideration, that those of Matthew 7:21-23 were (i) Disciples, (ii) sons of God, (iii) had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for power, (iv) knew who the Lord was, and (v) did works that only a Christian can do. I also propose that they had no working relationship with Jesus. The word rendered "knew" in verse 23 in the Greek, does not mean that our Lord did not have "intellectual knowledge" of them. It means that He had no INTIMATE knowledge of them. This Greek word is first ever used in the New Testament to show that Joseph had no sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born (Matt.1:25). It means intimate experimental and experiential knowledge. These Christians did the works because they could. They had no intimate loving relationship with Christ, their Head. They were loose cannons.

They are refused ENTRY into the Kingdom. At no time are they removed from their status of being disciples. They were just LOUSY DISCIPLES and Christ cannot afford loose cannons in His Kingdom on earth.
Again thanks, a most interesting view. Since you are settled on this view, it does me no good really to discuss it further. As my view, of this section of Scripture, did not change your view, I am afraid you have not changed mine either. It is interesting still, But I still maintain that the five who were late, were unsaved.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I was going to respond to this but in further contemplation, I will not. I can't even think on how to begin here. So many verses ripped from there context.

Ripped from context of what?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
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Ripped from context of what?
Simply put, these verses are not teaching what you are having them to teach, they must be studied within the context. Sometimes the context is a few verses together and sometimes it is chapters long.
 
Aug 12, 2020
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What do you do with this?

Matthew 10:34-39
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
I am thankful. (apparently) this is a quote from micah- 7 6. Most of the time christ referenced the scripture it was directed at those who professed it. I could string together a bunch of bible verse to disguise the fact that i have no idea what this means, but If paul was a misled man who willfully disowned christ in himself and helped to destroy others causing him to be punished by christ, and that punishment resulted in his healing and restoration, then those were a result of his restored christ logic/morality/fellowship that was christs from eternity. In this example you see a man who lost his life for christ. Rather poetic, don't you think?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I appreciate you gentlemen referencing thomas, i have to admit, though, i am ignorant of the idea he is called an observer. From my post and from my concerns i use these pseudonyms to name the unknown. observer, narrator, covetous, someone, something, yakuza. These i hold out as indefinite articles of one who is responsible for misleading and oppressing men and dividing and denying christ' life. The one he had before the world began.

Observers are those who walk or have a understanding after the the temporal corrupted things seen, and not the eternal things of faith, those of God not seen .

Thomas had doubts until he was loving commanded not to be faithless but rather believe as that Holy Spirit works in mankind to make it possible to believe in a God not seen . Thomas having been filled with the Spirit he was moved to give glory to the unseen God. The words of the prophet apostle Thomas . . My Lord and God. No glorying in dead flesh as if the kingdom came by observing the temporal things seen and not the new promised creation our new incorruptible bodies . (Hebrew 11: 39 )

In that way Thomas did not mix the unseen eternal thing with the temporal thing seen as in faithless. Not little faith none. Faith is believing. Doubt is doubting. Observing is observing. Again the opposite of faith is no faith coming from God . I think you could say a lesson in mixing faith spoken of in the book of Hebrews 4. No mixing no gospel.

Black . . .no life
Green. . . life from above

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.