Three levels of friendsip: friendship as association only; friendship as association plus loyalty; and friendship as association plus loyalty plus affection.
Think of all the Greek words meaning a category of love.
We need a lot of wisdom and humility to study the Bible. We also need to be careful when we use a word: there are two many levels for our modern languages! Really easy to get lost.
In the Interlinear translation, the translator uses associate before translating by the English word friend, associate meaning the lowest level of friendship.
That’s why I don’t like to use the general English word friend for the three Hebrews.
I understand what you think about the three Hebrews, it's good if you think so. They try to say what they think is right. But personally, they seem like babies to me compared to Job. Remember he expresses himself because he doesn’t understand what happens to him and he knows he has done nothing wrong. If they had been real friends, they would have tried to encourage him, not discourage him. They just say he is guilty but he is not.
- 30 2ndTimothygroup :
« I'd have to re-read the book again. But in my mind, they were absolutely trying to encourage him (to Transform his thinking). »
And they were condemned by God and put into Job’s hands : human level and God’s level !
- 31 :
I don’t know if they really wanted to encourage him because I think that when you try to encourage someone, it’s to help him feel better. When this person feels worse, it’s a strange way to encourage people, isn’t it? Or maybe you don’t find the right words? Or maybe sometimes you don’t need to speak? There are many ways to help people? Remember the parable of the good Samaritan? Or the woman putting oil on Jesus’ feet? Maybe they could have done him food and wash his body and heal his wounds, couldn’t they? And then he would have been more receptive, wouldn’t he? But then there is a difference between associates and real friends!
- 32 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I see what you're saying. Example:
Job said:
Job 14:7 NLT - "Even a tree has more hope! If it is cut down, it will sprout again and grow new branches."
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
I suppose that it is fair to say that Job was discouraged by being called a name. However, Eliphaz wasn't the only name-caller in the Bible.
Jesus said:
Matthew 12:34 NKJV - "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
Perhaps it is fair to acknowledge all of our ideas regarding Job. It is sad (for me) to see that Job claims that he has "no hope." To me, after having my incredible Spiritual Experience, I would NEVER say such words. It is impossible! I know that I could be tortured, but I would long for my death knowing, fully, that this is where my hope resides. Why? Because my relationship with God is apparently a bit different from Jobs's relationship with the Lord. (This is not to suggest that I am better than Job . . . I would never claim such a thing.)
Psalm 116:15 NKJV - "Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints."
I would prefer not to suffer in my death, but if I should, I will not curse God. I know that regardless of how I die, the Peace and Love found in Heaven is such an incredible reward that none of us will care about how we died in this physical world. I assure all of us that when we enter the gates of Heaven, the way we died and the pain that we might suffer will be totally and utterly inconsequential. Trust me on this, for this, I know as well as I know my own reflection. »
Remember there was no one like him on earth at his time according to God (human level and God’s level!)
- 33 :
Eliphaz replied:
Job 15:2 NLT - "A wise man wouldn't answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag."
“Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind? (according to the interlinear translation)
That’s a really good example. How is it possible for Eliphaz to speak like that whereas in the beginning of chapter 4 he recognizes that Job helped a lot of people through his advice. He was really short-minded (Someone who's small-minded has a narrow perspective or very firm, unchangeable opinions on things. ... If you're small-minded, you have a biased view of the world, and you're probably not very tolerant of those with different opinions or experiences according to the dictionary).
- 34 2ndTimothyGroup :
« I hear you. In no way is the following meant to brag, but I've been writing a personal commentary on the Bible, but in a very distinct way that mostly revolves around Colossians 2:9-15, the Circumcision of Christ. From the book of Job, I pull out vastly different ideas and concepts, such as the following notes (or, "personal commentary).
Job 17:4 NLT - "You have closed their minds to understanding, but do not let them triumph." - Although this is Job likely talking about his three friends that don't seem to be soothing or comforting him, this is a glimpse of the Jews and their hardened hearts. Or, this is referring to all of humanity and their Indwelling Curse of Adam and Eve.
Or, I point out other passages such as:
Job 36:31 - Tanakh: "By these things He controls peoples; He gives food in abundance." - The NLT translation uses the word "nourishes" and the footnotes include the possibility of "governs" whereas the Tanakh uses the word "controls."
As in verse 31 above, I am also fascinated by how the Lord controls people . . .
including our actions and thoughts. I think that there are some incredibly heavy concepts and ideas that we should be more considering of than others.
The Lord Takes Responsibility
Job 42:2 CSB - "I know that you can do anything and no plan of yours can be thwarted." - God is in control of all things and it really doesn't become more clear than what Job said above. »
- 35 JTB :
« So, God's worst enemy in the universe walks up to Him and says "hey God I want to screw with one of your kids" and God tells him "have at it".
I just can't imagine any earthly parent who loves their children allowing their worst enemy to harm their kids.
Why does God get a pass on that? »
Once again , there is a difference between human and God’s level ! It’s about a non-human issue between God and Satan !
- 36 Bob-Carabbio :
« Job had TWO personal problems: "Behemoth" (a tendency to rely on HIS OWN personal Strength/Wisdom, and "Leviathan" (Personal PRIDE).
The book illustrates HOW FAR God is willing to go to get us to REALIZE our spiritual problems, and repent of them (As Job did Job 42:6). And it gives insight into how God will USE satan surgically to accomplish His goals.
Job, of course, WAS NOT a "Born AGain believer" - NOBODY WAS then. He did, however have FAITH. »
He had no personal problem, he was involved in a non-human issue between God and Satan and he knew that everything happening to him was abnormal, well-organized and he was complaining and asking God for help ! He had a special relationship with God and suddenly everything was upside down !
- 37 :
Apparently he was doing a good job because according to God there was no one like him on Earth.
- 38 2ndTimothyGroup :
(As an answer to JTB)
That's a great and legitimate question. My extremely short answer would be this: The Book of Job is a demonstration of Power, and not that of Satan, but that of God. The Lord, in His incredible Power, is able to control all events, including the restoration of Job and his belongings. This is the number one lesson to be gained from Job. From that point downward, that could be any number of explanations.
As said, this is the short explanation, but it is what I have to offer at this point.
- 39 walknlight :
(Answering peldom10 about ".....a perfect servant"....said God of Job.)
« tn The word תָּם (tam) has been translated “perfect” (so KJV, ASV). The verbal root תָּמַם (tamam) means “to be blameless, complete.” The word is found in Gen 25:27 where it describes Jacob as “even-tempered.” It also occurs in Psa 64:5 (64:4 ET) and Pro 29:10. The meaning is that a person or a thing is complete, perfect, flawless. It does not mean that he was sinless, but that he was wholeheartedly trying to please God, that he had integrity and was blameless before God.
God Bless! »