Joyce Meyers- false teacher.

[Jamal]

Just read a few of the very negative and sad comments here on this thread about Joyce Meyer. I can say you folks have NO idea about Joyce Meyer. What she says and what you interpreted she said and meant are VERY different things. Based on the (few) times you listen to her and lack of real interest in what she has REALLY said vs what you "think" she said.

How much do I have to hear from her to know she's no worthy to listen to? She doesn't have any formal theological education at all. I listened to her long enough to know that she was biblically ignorant, and a brief background check proved I was right. Ignorance only begets ignorance, and that's what you're defending.

I went to her website and read her statement of faith. This should be one of the most carefully worded and conservative pieces that any church provides the public. Even most bad churches have mostly good statements of faith. Yet, her statement of faith is one of the worst I've ever read. That statement isn't about taking a stand on sound or traditional central doctrines, but about manipulating people. Corruption only begets corruption, and that's what you're defending.

When people come into a topic with minds already made up there is basically ONLY immature judgments spewing out your fingers onto the keyboard on onto the posts for all to read.

Immature judgements? No one who likes Joyce Meyer's preaching could be the least bit mature in their judgement. Her audience are like crack addicts. They listen to her to get a shot of self-esteem and then they crash because their is no nutrition in crack. Then back to her they go.

Nothing in your post addressed her lack of theological education or the lack of soundness of her doctrine. The Apostles spent several years with Jesus before they went out and taught on their own. Paul was one of the world's foremost authorities on divine scripture when Jesus recruited him. The Bible was written in their language. Yet, you to a woman who not only can't read word of Hebrew or Greek, but is unfamiliar with most of the Bible and unfamiliar with traditional interpretations of the Bible. Worst of all, that's not an issue for her because she's not interested in preaching the word of God, but only in tickling the ears of perpetual babies.

 

[Deadtosin]

Hello Mr. Deadtosin, no, I have not read (the "codex vaticanus" or the "codex sinaiticus" and all the changes of other modern translations accepted since "Westcott and Hort") yikesooo . But I do read the KJV and the NIV and the NAS and the Amplified Bible. So it is not a knew jerk reaction on my part to say that the amplified Bible is a good translation.

Okay, not that you are interested but on the chance you are here is a link
Westcott and Hort's Magic Marker Binge (1/2)

There is a lot more to this, and it has fueled a lot of debate, as with everything in this world you will have to draw your own conclusions (or not) some people prefer to dismiss subjects that challenge their bubble.

And for the record it's not the translation in question but the transcript they were derived from. I don't want to derail this thread so I think I'll resurrect it elsewhere.

 

[Joidevivre]

By their fruits you shall know them. I don't know Joyce nor have heard her, but I do know many many women who have been changed by her teachings. They love Christ more deeply. And they have felt His compassion, and seem to want to delve into the bible even more. I see spiritual growth in them.

Everyone teaches differently, and somehow there are women who are ministered to through her. And it is all about Jesus. He speaks to them through her.

Why do you want to touch that? Leave the judging to God. This thread only spreads dissension.

 

[Deadtosin]

By their fruits you shall know them. I don't know Joyce nor have heard her, but I do know many many women who have been changed by her teachings. They love Christ more deeply. And they have felt His compassion, and seem to want to delve into the bible even more. I see spiritual growth in them.

Everyone teaches differently, and somehow there are women who are ministered to through her. And it is all about Jesus. He speaks to them through her.

Why do you want to touch that? Leave the judging to God. This thread only spreads dissension.

dissension
A dissension is a disagreement, or difference of opinion, and the meaning hasn't changed since the word first came into use in French in about the 12th century.


Yes, indeed many threads cause disagreements and differences of opinion. I personally don't believe her teachings are biblical. I think she brings the world into her teachings. A watered down gospel. I think that David Wilkerson talks directly about her and other super-sized church pastors. I posted the video on here, though I doubt you've watched it.

 

[presidente]

I imagine any man there was dragged.


Romans 9:20 is not about someone being unhappy with their feet and hips. Everything she teaches is a misrepresentation, even if just a little off. Joyce Meyer doesn't just take some verses (from a poor translation) and apply them in ways not exactly meant by the Bible, but that she never gets them right. Her "little off" is the best it gets, and it's pervasive in her teachings.

You are looking at this the wrong way. The question you should be asking is whether Joyce Meyer's is right that people should not complain against God because of the size of their hips or feet? Of course, they shouldn't.

The Bible does make use of lesser-to-greater and greater-to-lesser arguments, which are used in Jewish hermeneutics also. If a pot has no right to say, "Why have you made me thus" about eternal matters, why would it have a right to complain about lesser matters such as hips. The original source Paul is talking about doesn't mention the predestination issues. Isaiah 45 is more general than that. It is about those who quarrel with their Maker, and compares it to a pot complaining to a potter.

Joyce Meyers makes a light point out of a heavy passage, here. That doesn't mean she is false. The point may be light, but that doesn't mean it is false.

Let me ask you, do you think Christians should complain and grumble against God over issues like their hip or foot size? Is she right about that or wrong?

Maybe she doesn't follow some rules for exegeting passages that you may be familiar with or may have been instructed in. But if the Bible doesn't say that a teacher must follow these rules to be genuine, you don't have much of a case.

Some of the people who are critical of these teachers make arguments that aren't very substantial, like your own. I don't know whether you can dig through her teachings and find some major errors because I haven't done it. I notice some preachers are accused of being false teachers for teaching on really light topics all the time. That doesn't mean their teachings are false. It may mean that someone studying under the teacher may not be spiritually healthy if that is all they learn about the Bible. Donuts have some nutritional value (calories), but they don't make a very good everyday diet.

 

[Deadtosin]

why do we need a pastor? is it to teach us the Word of God? or is it to teach us the basics of how we should feel, or how we should address God or what we can expect?

My opinion is that a pastor should teach us what the bible says. Not use the bible to get their own point across. That's where the false teacher comes in. They may actually believe what she says is what the bible means.

 

[PennEd]

I have defended Joyce Meyers in this thread. My wife attended one of her conferences in August. After reading some of this thread I decided to do a little research on her. I did uncover some disturbing, perhaps unintentional, doctrines that she has preached. But, even more upsetting is that she appears to be caught up in the "prosperity gospel" which I reeeeeally dislike. Although I don't ask my Pastor to take a vow of poverty, I expect him to live modestly with the money he gets from the Church. I know wealth is a relative term. Most Americans are wealthy compared to many other countries citizens, and I don't have a dollar amount that says "that's too much", BUT I LOATHE when preachers live beyond extravagant lifestyles. Joyce Meyers appears to definitely fall into that group. She has a net worth anywhere from $25,000,000 to $100,000,000. It would be hard to justify the luxury jets, multi-million dollar homes, and extravagant cars and travel. Some of us that have defended her here might have to re-evaluate. It still doesn't change that some of her detractors here haven't shown much love to her followers or to Joyce Meyers herself.

 

[Kerry]

Money effects many preachers. Money will effect how you preach and what you preach. Understand that when you have tv ministry it takes money and lots of it. It is very tempting when a man is sitting in front of you with a 50,000 dollar check and he say's if you will just preach this and lay off of that I will give this check. Many are succumbed by it and is the reason that they preach self help and dilute the the Cross. Yes she fell for the devils bait and the 100 dollar bill. But we cannot judge as we do not know the heart, yet the fruit is that she accepted the check as she no longer preaches the cross but rather Psychology.

 

[Jamal]

You are looking at this the wrong way. The question you should be asking is whether Joyce Meyer's is right that people should not complain against God because of the size of their hips or feet? Of course, they shouldn't.

I'd agree if concerns about the size of your feet were the low point of her teaching. But, that's the high point, never getting to greater, but only going toward lessor.

Consider her statement of faith, "By admitting we have sinned... we can spend eternity with God."

There's no place in the Bible that teaches that we can be saved by admitting (or confessing) we have sinned. The Bible does say that if we confess our sin, God is faithful to forgive. But, this isn't directly linked to salvation, and this kind of statement only exists in one or two places. But, the Bible roughly 50 times calls us to repent (change of heart, turn from sin), and this word is often directly tied to salvation.

What's the difference between admitting and repenting? One allows you to go on sinning, possibly without guilt. The other requires that you decide to stop sinning

Also, she uses the word "we", "by admitting we have sinned..." Why not "By admitting you have sinned..."? "We" is much more passive. Technically, allowing you to not even admit personally to sin, because if Meyer is part of we, she can admit it for you, "We have sinned."

The Bible teaches, repent or perish (Luke 13). Joyce Meyer teaches, admit that we have sinned. Could her error get much more serious than implicitly teaching that there's no need for repentance? This is why her fans like her, she's all about teaching God will make you rich and healthy, don't mind the size of your feet, and nothing substantial about you turning away from sin.

 

[ladylynn]

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How much do I have to hear from her to know she's no worthy to listen to? She doesn't have any formal theological education at all. I listened to her long enough to know that she was biblically ignorant, and a brief background check proved I was right. Ignorance only begets ignorance, and that's what you're defending.

Jamal., Having formal theological education is not a test of who knows God's Word and the love of Christ. Calling people ignorant without the slightest tinge of being careful says much about a person. You only read a few lines of my post to ascertain I am "ignorant" begotten from more ignorance. yikes!

I went to her website and read her statement of faith. This should be one of the most carefully worded and conservative pieces that any church provides the public. Even most bad churches have mostly good statements of faith. Yet, her statement of faith is one of the worst I've ever read. That statement isn't about taking a stand on sound or traditional central doctrines, but about manipulating people. Corruption only begets corruption, and that's what you're defending.

Those are harsh nasty words. What statements to make about a bunch of people you don't even know Jamal.

Immature judgements? No one who likes Joyce Meyer's preaching could be the least bit mature in their judgement. Her audience are like crack addicts. They listen to her to get a shot of self-esteem and then they crash because their is no nutrition in crack. Then back to her they go.

"crack addicts looking for self esteem" You don't even know these Christians Jamal. How do you type these sort of things and feel like you are defending the faith? Words so carelessly tossed at others to hurt and insult.

Nothing in your post addressed her lack of theological education or the lack of soundness of her doctrine. The Apostles spent several years with Jesus before they went out and taught on their own. Paul was one of the world's foremost authorities on divine scripture when Jesus recruited him. The Bible was written in their language. Yet, you to a woman who not only can't read word of Hebrew or Greek, but is unfamiliar with most of the Bible and unfamiliar with traditional interpretations of the Bible. Worst of all, that's not an issue for her because she's not interested in preaching the word of God, but only in tickling the ears of perpetual babies.

Many Christians have not been taught Hebrew or Greek or Latin... But the Holy Spirit manifests Himself in the lives of those who are willing to follow Him whether they be preachers, teachers, parents, fishermen and tax collectors., harlots and thieves. There is just nothing left I can even think to say to you since it took this long to get where you are today. It's gonna take time for you to learn different. But the good news is Jesus is able to save AND to sanctify each one of us.

Thank YOU Jesus!!! You make all things new.

 

[presidente]

I'd agree if concerns about the size of your feet were the low point of her teaching. But, that's the high point, never getting to greater, but only going toward lessor.

Consider her statement of faith, "By admitting we have sinned... we can spend eternity with God."

That doesn't prove much. What's between the dots? "..."

 

[pastac]

You are so far gone in your own self view you can't see. The word is for the sinner to become whole. The word is for the saved to walk in victory consistently. All the other stuff is deception and distraction. Joyce is a representative of Jesus you know that, even if you disagree with her theology understanding as you do. I'm looking at you in the same context you view her so I just trash you and call you ungodly names?
To the contrary Jamal I try to reason with you before brushing the dust from my feet. Many witnesses have tried to relay to you the same thing. Your way is not Godly about this issues as it pertains to how you speak of another. That is the only point. Keep your passion and your opinions but be Godly in your approach.

Romans 16:17-18 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

2 Peter 2:3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Joyce Meyer does not serve God and it would be contrary to God's word for me to believe she is my sister. And, those of you who defend need to examine yourselves. It is the work of Satan to oppose calling out of false teachers.

 

[Jamal]

Many Christians have not been taught Hebrew or Greek or Latin... But the Holy Spirit manifests Himself in the lives of those who are willing to follow Him

Someone who eschews an educated pastor is on par with someone who eschews educated medical doctors. Do you eat manna from heaven, or do you depend on farmers? If you reject the resources God provides, that's on you. Ignorance begets ignorance.

 

[Jamal]

That doesn't prove much. What's between the dots? "..."

It took me less than 10 seconds to find Joyce Meyer's statement of faith. If that's too much effort for you, then why do you bother getting out of bed in the morning?

 

[Inu]

Back and forth, back and forth....

Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. Maybe she's rich and materialistic or maybe she's blessed and God's intentions to not harm but prosper us, is actually working in her life because of her obedience to Him... And yes, the bible speaks of discernment and to take caution of false prophets, but I'm pretty sure it makes no mention of bickering and gossiping about another brothers or sisters work for Him.... although it does mention that when one goes stray, we need to help them....

Some of you may feel like "Yes, I am doing the work of the Lord by exposing her to the world".... Stop fooling yourself... You are doing what HAM did to his father Noah... as much as the bible speaks about recognising the false prophets, it also speaks of judgement and letting him who is blameless be the first to cast the stone...And to me, that is why Christ could call the Pharisees vipers, because He was blameless....Am I blameless, no! Are you? No! Is Joyce? Heck no! But before we judge her, lets look at ourselves, shall we?

How many have come to know Christ through us? What example are we setting for non-believers? (Oh those Christians and their false prophets, you can't trust them, non of them). Have we chosen to break people down, rather than build them up with our words? Have we chosen to judge others based on their wealth, fame, lifestyle? Do we sometimes have that "mightier than all" attitude?


If she's wrong, if she is false, let her be answerable to God... she isn't answerable to a bunch of sinner who sit on CC and criticise her work, her teachings, her earnings...Let Him, who is blameless, pure, perfect, correct, and compassionate judge her...

P.S. much love for all of you even though we have different opinions and understanding of the word of God.

 

[Apostol2013]

Many Christians have not been taught Hebrew or Greek or Latin... But the Holy Spirit manifests Himself in the lives of those who are willing to follow Him whether they be preachers, teachers, parents, fishermen and tax collectors., harlots and thieves. There is just nothing left I can even think to say to you since it took this long to get where you are today. It's gonna take time for you to learn different. But the good news is Jesus is able to save AND to sanctify each one of us.

Thank YOU Jesus!!! You make all things new.

I took time to evaluate the sanctification you to speak about , I myself reach preach the cross I preach the atonement sins through the blood of Christ that you have been justified by his blood made righteous and cleaned of all sins . that sanctification holiness is there it is the free gift but like every gift we have to open the gift and use it like Jesus told the paralyzed man pick up your mat and walk have you the possible said once you were sinners fornicators adulterers but now you should put away all these for you have been made cleansed and righteous before God . so the real issue is taking the gift that was given for free and putting it to use to begin to show your faith at work like God said in Isaiah chapter 1 let us reason together even though your sins be as scarlet I shall make them white as snow wool

 

[Apostol2013]

But also i see that you use the word sanctification as the constant renewal of the believer in this i agree much like the passover when the israelites were covered by his blood and spared then they were taken out of egypt and had to learn to trust the Lord but instead did not know how to walk as a free man but rebbelled at every lack of confidence they had because they had no identity for them the concept of trust was far off be,ause of their heart condition they had to die and the same with us we have to die to live if you hang on to the old man it is not beneficial to you , for it is written curssedn is he who hangs from a tree . unless we die we can not live sin is like the gangrene sin spreads like cancer slowly consuming away till one day you're not here no more for we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb . by his spiritual blood from heaven poured into our hearts to renew our minds are spirit and make us whole and this is the fountain of living water that gives life to us his divine spirit

 

[Jamal]

[video=youtube;RCImd8vZWG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCImd8vZWG4[/video]

I bet there are more divorced women in Joyce Meyer's congregation than there are in 99% of the churches in America.

 

[jackamo]

Someone who eschews an educated pastor is on par with someone who eschews educated medical doctors. Do you eat manna from heaven, or do you depend on farmers? If you reject the resources God provides, that's on you. Ignorance begets ignorance.

Jamal, you seem to think that unless someone has a theological degree they can't be a pastor. Let me tell you something, different people learn in different ways. Some find doing a degree very helpful, but for the most part what I see is pastors with "Theological degrees" being skeptic about the exacts of what they even believe.

My pastor is a very wise man, but he just couldn't work in a pressurised school environment. Does this mean he's stupid? No, he helped make Wright Bus the name it is to day, that work took a lot of brains to be able to do, and the entire industry of busses were changed. When God called him to plant a church he didn't go "ok God hold on and I'll go get a degree then I'll make the church you've asked me to build" God told him that he needed to plant a church NOW and he did. Does this mean my pastor is biblical ignorant because he followed God's call? No, if God wants him to preach something He will show him. The community here in the County Antrim area has greatly benefit from the get go the work our church has done.

Also hi everyone I'm back

 

[Allin]

I just do not get where people think she is a false teacher... Some men have a problem with a woman being in charge. Put the two together and they don't like her. I've heard her teach for over 25 years and have seen the growth in her personally as well as the wonderful things the ministry does for others.

I would like to start by saying, "Have you lost your mind. Have you lost it." But I better not. Let's drop the 'false teacher' and make biblical comparisons. Most jealous people are too ashamed to admit to being jealous; it's better to describe to them how they feel, because if you call them jealous, they go on the defensive and block out everything. Same with 'false teacher'; best to just describe what a person does and let that define them. I don't care to try to determine what Meyers or anyone else is doing; but no woman is supposed to be above her husband. It doesn't matter what men like or don't like; it's what the Lord has determined. God never has blessed and never in all of time will bless a family, ministry, or relationship that is backwards. Here are several backwards relationships that the Lord never blesses:

1. Wife controls things; husband is passive.

2. Children control their parents; parents are doormats.

3. Homosexual relationships.

Let's not talk about the negative or how God feels about such things; let's focus on the facts which draw a very long line of witnesses from the past and today. God will never and has never blessed any relationship that fits any of the above where things are out of order. Now, if you want to still believe that God blesses a ministry or family or minister where the woman usurps authority over the man, and the man allows her, then that's between you and the Lord. It's too bad that 'the fear of the Lord' is not recognized today and that most Christians don't know that when Jesus said in Matt. 7 that "many" who call Him Lord will be rejected from the Kingdom, the word used for "many" means "the majority". The majority of Christians will not enter the Kingdom. I believe that one of the main reasons is that Christians tend to not take God seriously. He says this, they say, "Ah, well, there's Grace. Besides, we can bend rules for the sake of sympathy." Now is not the time to bend rules. A woman usurping authority over her husband is an abomination to God, and He doesn't forgive except only there is repentance. (Rev. 2:18-29.) Abomination means condemned, and that to hell. This isn't the time to pick and choose what you think is right or fair.