looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Gideon300]

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The seventh day was sanctified.

God sanctified it not man.

Did God ever unsanctify it?

Do we have the right to change the day or ignore the day.

The sabbath was made for man. Set apart and made holy before sin. Before division and before Israel Was founded.

God used Israel to preserve His laws. He gave the laws to these people to be a light to the surrounding nations.

The sabbath was made way before Israel.
Is there a record of God commanding people not to take His name in vain, or not to covet? Just because there is no recorded commend to keep the sabbath Holy, there is plan evidence in the creation of the day.

The sabbath was made for man.

Absolute rubbish. Tell me one person that God instructed to keep the Sabbath prior to the Law. God's dealings with Israel were unique. There was no law prior to Israel. And the law was given to Israel, no other nation.

I don't care which day of the week people meet. It's between them and God. Only dead religion demands a particular day. And how you define "work" on the sabbath anyway? And why do SDA's assume that Sabbath observance means going to church? That's not what the law says.​

 

[Gideon300]

When God gave manner in the wilderness. The people gathered for 2 days on Friday.

No gathering on sabbath.

No work on the sabbath. Nothing about having church on a Saturday. The sabbath is a day of rest. So even if SDA is correct (it is not), church on Sunday is just fine.

 

[Churchgoer]

Absolute rubbish. Tell me one person that God instructed to keep the Sabbath prior to the Law. God's dealings with Israel were unique. There was no law prior to Israel. And the law was given to Israel, no other nation.

I don't care which day of the week people meet. It's between them and God. Only dead religion demands a particular day. And how you define "work" on the sabbath anyway? And why do SDA's assume that Sabbath observance means going to church? That's not what the law says.​

Actually they didn't say they will meet and worship God.
They just say not to do the same work as weekdays.
If one sit by computer all week, he can go chop woods on Saturday.
That's their statement of keeping sabbath day holy.
They didn't mention anything about meeting.

Not mine.

 

[TMS]

There was no law prior to Israel. And the law was given to Israel, no other nation.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gravity is a law that affects us. God set many laws in place before Israel.

Just because there is no record of these laws being spoken by God does not mean they do not exist. Why did Abel give a sacrifice that God accepted and Cain give one that God did not accept.

Gen 4:6-7
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

There is no record that God gave the command to not murder. Does that mean that murdering was acceptable. ??

 

[Davidstarr]

Correct.
so all of us already following this law, based on your requirements.

Whose life is being saved by breaking the sabbath?
Or is it all about making money for you?
That's mammon isn't it?

Matt 6:24; Luke 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

 

[Davidstarr]

The store people possible are feeding hungers. So it is doing good in Jesus term. Remember Jesus are feeding people, healing people, getting food for people on sabbath day?

What do you do on your sabbath day?

You don't seem to understand the situation.
You really should read the bible more.

Every day (for over 40 years) manna fell, enough for one day from (what we would call Sunday today through Thursday) by noon it would all melt away.
It was enough to feed about 2 million people each day.
That alone was a miracle in and of itself.
If any was left over for the next day it would rot and have worms in it.
But every Friday enough manna fell to feed the people for 2 days.
Even though some people would go out looking for manna on the Sabbath there would be none.
God even complained to Moses, "How long will my people refuse to keep my laws?"
But there was weekly miracle as well. Manna left over from Friday was still edible on the Sabbath day.
The whole idea was the sabbath was a day of rest. NOT a day to go get food.

This was before they reached Mt. Sinai and received the written law.

On the selfsame day that Joshua led the Hebrew nation across the flooded Jordan river and they began to eat of the fruit of the land, the manna stopped. This was after the 40 years of wandering.
Manna has not been seen again since.

Now yes, with our modern freezers, refrigerators, toasters, micro waves we don't have to worry as much with food rotting. I see nothing wrong in using the available electricity to heat up some leftovers on the sabbath.
But to actually cook a meal on the sabbath, that's out of the question. Same thing to go shopping. These things should be done Sunday through Friday.

 

[Journey_man]

The claim that the Sabbath was only an Old Covenant institution fails when Scripture's timeline is examined. The Sabbath was not introduced at Sinai. It appears before Israel existed as a nation...Genesis 2:2–3 states: "God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done." The Sabbath is rooted in creation itself, not merely the Mosaic covenant...Then, when the Ten Commandments were given, the 4th commandment does not say "create a new Sabbath." It says: "REMEMBER the Sabbath day by keeping it holy." — Exodus 20:8 To remember something means it was already established and known...The commandment connects directly back to creation: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth... but He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." — Exodus 20:11...So the biblical sequence is: Creation → Sabbath established → Israel commanded to remember → Sabbath observed. The question is not whether the Sabbath existed under the Old Covenant. It clearly did...The question is whether something established by God at creation and included in the moral law is abolished simply because the Old Covenant reached fulfillment. To also note that marriage as well was also included in the mosaic laws and establish in the days of creation but yet we do not say that marriage is fullfilled. We cant be isolating the Sabbath alone. Jesus said: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." — Mark 2:27...Notice He did not say the Sabbath was made only for Israel. The foundation of the Sabbath is creation, the command is remembrance, and its purpose predates Sinai. In the book of Revelations 1:10 “I was in the spirit in the Lord’s day” Jesus said he is Lord over the sabbath day and John is busy addressing Jesus himself when he is talking about his experience on the Lord’s day, the Lord’s day is the day Jesus is Lord over which as he said is the sabbath day thus the Lord’s day is Sabbath.

The Lord's Day is observed on Sunday, which is the Christian Sabbath. While the original creation Sabbath was the seventh day (Saturday), the day of corporate worship and rest shifted to the first day of the week (Sunday) under the New Covenant.

This change commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week, marking the dawn of a new creation. The fourth commandment—requiring one day in seven to be set apart for holy rest and worship—as a permanent moral law rooted in creation, rather than a temporary ceremonial rule.

In the New Testament, we see Christians gathering together on the Lord’s Day, to celebrate and commemorate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. We see John in prayer on the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10). We see the church in Acts gathered on the Lord’s Day (Acts 20:7). The impression we’re given is that first-century Christians understood that the first day of the week was the Christian Sabbath or the Christian day of worship.

 

[Davidstarr]

Absolute rubbish. Tell me one person that God instructed to keep the Sabbath prior to the Law. God's dealings with Israel were unique. There was no law prior to Israel. And the law was given to Israel, no other nation.

I don't care which day of the week people meet. It's between them and God. Only dead religion demands a particular day. And how you define "work" on the sabbath anyway? And why do SDA's assume that Sabbath observance means going to church? That's not what the law says.​

Exo 16 was before they reached Mt. Sinai.

"The law was given to Israel, no other nations." All the other nations were pagan idol worshipers.

You need to read the 4th commandment Exo 20:8-11. It's only 4 verses.

Lev 23:3 "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."

Do you know what a "holy convocation" is. It means the people gathering together to hear the writings of scripture.

That is what the law says.
You really need to read the bible more.

 

[Gideon300]

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gravity is a law that affects us. God set many laws in place before Israel.

Just because there is no record of these laws being spoken by God does not mean they do not exist. Why did Abel give a sacrifice that God accepted and Cain give one that God did not accept.

Gen 4:6-7
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

There is no record that God gave the command to not murder. Does that mean that murdering was acceptable. ??

No, murder is not acceptable. Christians are not given permission to lie, steal, slander, or commit adultery. So what? Abraham simply did as God asked. He did that in faith. And he was quite willing to murder his son if God had required it. Abraham lied about Sarah to protect himself. There is no record that God rebuked him for lying. In fact, God punished Pharaoh for Abraham's transgression.

Some Christians want a nice neat little package of instructions to follow. They can feel good about themselves and sneer at others who don't meet their self appointed standard of righteousness.
Acts 15:10 & 11

"Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

By proclaiming the Law, you are testing God. I suggest that you cut it out.

 

[Gideon300]

You don't seem to understand the situation.
You really should read the bible more.

Every day (for over 40 years) manna fell, enough for one day from (what we would call Sunday today through Thursday) by noon it would all melt away.
It was enough to feed about 2 million people each day.
That alone was a miracle in and of itself.
If any was left over for the next day it would rot and have worms in it.
But every Friday enough manna fell to feed the people for 2 days.
Even though some people would go out looking for manna on the Sabbath there would be none.
God even complained to Moses, "How long will my people refuse to keep my laws?"
But there was weekly miracle as well. Manna left over from Friday was still edible on the Sabbath day.
The whole idea was the sabbath was a day of rest. NOT a day to go get food.

This was before they reached Mt. Sinai and received the written law.

On the selfsame day that Joshua led the Hebrew nation across the flooded Jordan river and they began to eat of the fruit of the land, the manna stopped. This was after the 40 years of wandering.
Manna has not been seen again since.

Now yes, with our modern freezers, refrigerators, toasters, micro waves we don't have to worry as much with food rotting. I see nothing wrong in using the available electricity to heat up some leftovers on the sabbath.
But to actually cook a meal on the sabbath, that's out of the question. Same thing to go shopping. These things should be done Sunday through Friday.

Acts 15: 10 & 11
"Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Testing God is not advisable. Quit preaching the law to believers.

 

[Gideon300]

Exo 16 was before they reached Mt. Sinai.

"The law was given to Israel, no other nations." All the other nations were pagan idol worshipers.

You need to read the 4th commandment Exo 20:8-11. It's only 4 verses.

Lev 23:3 "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."

Do you know what a "holy convocation" is. It means the people gathering together to hear the writings of scripture.

That is what the law says.
You really need to read the bible more.

You should quit being a Judaiser. You have no business instructing believers in the law that no longer applies.

 

[Davidstarr]

The Lord's Day is observed on Sunday, which is the Christian Sabbath. While the original creation Sabbath was the seventh day (Saturday), the day of corporate worship and rest shifted to the first day of the week (Sunday) under the New Covenant.

This change commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week, marking the dawn of a new creation. The fourth commandment—requiring one day in seven to be set apart for holy rest and worship—as a permanent moral law rooted in creation, rather than a temporary ceremonial rule.

In the New Testament, we see Christians gathering together on the Lord’s Day, to celebrate and commemorate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. We see John in prayer on the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10). We see the church in Acts gathered on the Lord’s Day (Acts 20:7). The impression we’re given is that first-century Christians understood that the first day of the week was the Christian Sabbath or the Christian day of worship.

Rev 1:10 does not say the Lord's day is on the first day of the week.

You should read Acts 2:46. The early Christians gathered together EVERY day to worship God. Acts 20:7 says nothing about the first day of the week replacing the 7th day sabbath.

 

[Gideon300]

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The seventh day was sanctified.

God sanctified it not man.

Did God ever unsanctify it?

Do we have the right to change the day or ignore the day.

The sabbath was made for man. Set apart and made holy before sin. Before division and before Israel Was founded.

God used Israel to preserve His laws. He gave the laws to these people to be a light to the surrounding nations.

The sabbath was made way before Israel.
Is there a record of God commanding people not to take His name in vain, or not to covet? Just because there is no recorded commend to keep the sabbath Holy, there is plan evidence in the creation of the day.

The sabbath was made for man.

I'll tell you what God's word says:

"Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink or in the part of a feast or of a New Moon or of Sabbaths....." Colossians 2:16 literal

You really should quit trying to preach your false doctrines. You do as you please. Leave others to be led by their conscience. If people want to follow Jewish feast days or food laws, I have nothing to say. It's their business. And it's none of their business that I have ham on my Chicken Parmigiana for dinner tonight. Or that I did my washing today. (It's Saturday here.)

 

[Davidstarr]

You should quit being a Judaiser. You have no business instructing believers in the law that no longer applies.

Do you believe Christians should follow lawlessness?
Do you need me to quote Paul says about following the man of lawlessness?

Worshiping other gods, murder, theft, adultery, etc. You think it is OK for Christians to do those things?

I could go through 9 of the 10 commandments and you would say "Yes. we should keep those laws."
But add that 4th (sabbath command) and you are willing to do away with all 10 commandments?

The 7th day sabbath existed before any Jew was born.
Refusing to worship idols, refusing to murder, refusing to take my neighbors wife, you think I am Judaizing?
What does that mean for your idea of Christianity.

You MUST kill your neighbor, you MUST take his wife, you MUST worship idols; just to prove you are not Judaizing.

 

[Davidstarr]

I'll tell you what God's word says:

"Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink or in the part of a feast or of a New Moon or of Sabbaths....." Colossians 2:16 literal

You really should quit trying to preach your false doctrines. You do as you please. Leave others to be led by their conscience. If people want to follow Jewish feast days or food laws, I have nothing to say. It's their business. And it's none of their business that I have ham on my Chicken Parmigiana for dinner tonight. Or that I did my washing today. (It's Saturday here.)

That is between you and God.
You will have to stand alone before Him and explain your disobedience.

 

[Gideon300]

Do you believe Christians should follow lawlessness?
Do you need me to quote Paul says about following the man of lawlessness?

Worshiping other gods, murder, theft, adultery, etc. You think it is OK for Christians to do those things?

I could go through 9 of the 10 commandments and you would say "Yes. we should keep those laws."
But add that 4th (sabbath command) and you are willing to do away with all 10 commandments?

The 7th day sabbath existed before any Jew was born.
Refusing to worship idols, refusing to murder, refusing to take my neighbors wife, you think I am Judaizing?
What does that mean for your idea of Christianity.

You MUST kill your neighbor, you MUST take his wife, you MUST worship idols; just to prove you are not Judaizing.

I doubt if anything that is in any way spiritual can get through to you. But for sake of others, I will tell you this:

You say that the Sabbath was instituted before the Law. So was circumcision. It was so serious that God set out to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. Yet circumcision was removed as a requirement for believers.

Galatians 5: 1 & 2
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19. What laws apply to dead people?

But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.

"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”
Galatians 3: 1-12

When you follow the law, you are not living by faith. That means that you are not pleasing God.
"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:23-25

The law does not save us and neither does it make us righteous. "Whoever keeps the whole law, but stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14

You say that the Sabbath was instituted before the Law. So was circumcision. It was so serious that God set out to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. Yet circumcision was

 

[Gideon300]

That is between you and God.
You will have to stand alone before Him and explain your disobedience.

See, I was right. Happens from time to time. You reject God's word and condemn those who refuse to bow down to your false doctrine.

Have fun explaining why you refuse to obey God's word as revealed in the New Testament. Much of it was written to counteract false doctrines such as you promote. You don't have to worry about me. I know God, I know Jesus and I know that my sins are forgiven. I know that Jesus lives in to be all that God requires me to be. I am led by the Spirit.

I am not perfect, but I am accepted by God because he included me in Christ. Jesus is my Lord. I know that God raised Jesus from the dead. Therefore I am saved.

I hope you are perfect because the law includes sanctions for breaking the Law. Good luck sacrificing a lamb to cover your sin. Those days are over.

 

[Davidstarr]

I doubt if anything that is in any way spiritual can get through to you. But for sake of others, I will tell you this:

You say that the Sabbath was instituted before the Law. So was circumcision. It was so serious that God set out to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. Yet circumcision was removed as a requirement for believers.

Galatians 5: 1 & 2
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19. What laws apply to dead people?

But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.

"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”
Galatians 3: 1-12

When you follow the law, you are not living by faith. That means that you are not pleasing God.
"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:23-25

The law does not save us and neither does it make us righteous. "Whoever keeps the whole law, but stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14

You say that the Sabbath was instituted before the Law. So was circumcision. It was so serious that God set out to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. Yet circumcision was

Circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments.

You seem to think the 10 commandments should not be obeyed.
That includes worshiping other gods, murder, theft, adultery.

You are following the man of lawlessness, NOT Christianity.

 

[TMS]

The store people possible are feeding hungers. So it is doing good in Jesus term. Remember Jesus are feeding people, healing people, getting food for people on sabbath day?

What do you do on your sabbath day?

Read the commandment
There is a clear difference between helping the needy and laboring for money.

 

[TMS]

No gathering manna for the 7th day.

Counting from manna day 1....

Jesus in nt picked food in the field, on sabbath day.

Do you know any Christians today go pick up manna on 7th day?

Exo 16:22-28
22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. 24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. 25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

The principle is simple. Don't go gathering food on the sabbath when you can gather it the day before.

The labour was not to be done on the sabbath.

Jesus was walking through a field and plucked corn... was that labour ? No it wasn't. If Jesus was harvesting or laboring in the field it would have been breaking the sabbath. But what Jesus did was not labour.

Exo 20:9-10
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: