looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Churchgoer]

I read it again.

And we have agreed Jesus says it is fine to do good work.

So as long as one can justify to do work on Saturday, then one does not break the law.

I am only to say this as a surface reading.
To understand deeper, it really need holy spirit guidance, and read Bible as a complete message.

 

[Churchgoer]

I am only to say this as a surface reading.
To understand deeper, it really need holy spirit guidance, and read Bible as a complete message.

Further more, in creation week, God put aside that 7th day , and blessed that day, note, that single day. Not days.

Only starting manna time, Hebrews started 7th day cycle.

Therefore, I stand by my conclusion, it is 7th, you can start today as day 1, or any day as day 1.

Which means doctors, firefighter, police.... all can have their day of rest on their 7th day.

Sabbath literally means 7th.

I also believe the goal is rest in the Lord, holy convocation.

 

[Davidstarr]

I read it again.

And we have agreed Jesus says it is fine to do good work.

So as long as one can justify to do work on Saturday, then one does not break the law.

I can justify committing murder. Does that mean murder is not a sin?
I can justify theft...
Adultery...
Lying...
Worshiping idols...

The priests of Jesus' day had added so many unbiblical burdens placed on their idea of keeping the sabbath.
Jesus condemned them for placing their own traditions above the commandments.
Are you willing to follow suit? Placing the indoctrinated teachings of your church above what the bible says?

The 4th commandment explicitly states that we are to do our work (our chosen profession - or whatever work we can find) for 6 days (that's Sunday through Friday) and resting on the 7th day sabbath (Saturday today).
If you rest from your labor on Sunday or Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you have already broken the 4th commandment

I understand in today's world many companies do not work on Sundays.
But that does not prevent you from doing work.
Paint your house, mow the lawn, trim some hedges, plant some potatoes, etc.
All those things are still "do thy own work".

Here's a scenario that you may find interesting:

A carpenter makes things out of wood Sunday through Friday. Sells his products for profit. This is according to the 4th commandment.
On Saturdays he enjoys a relaxing day of rest going out on his boat and doing some fishing. It gives him time to admire God's creation and enjoy the wonders of nature. This also is in accord with the 4th commandment.

On the other hand a fisherman goes out Sunday through Friday fishing for profit, to earn his daily bread and pay his bills.
But on the sabbath he enjoys a day of rest with his hobby of making things out of wood.

You see where I'm going with this?
For a fisherman to fish on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the carpenter.
For the carpenter to make things out of wood on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the fisherman.

What the 4th commandment actually says "Do all THY work in 6 days" but to rest from that work on the sabbath.
It is dependent on what that individual's work might be.

In my case, I live on a farm way out in the middle of nowhere. I do all the needed farm work (when I can) Sunday through Friday but on the sabbath farm work is out of the question.
Yes I still need to feed the farm animals (even on the sabbath). But that falls into the line of rescuing an ox out of the ditch. I cannot let our farm animals go hungry or thirsty just because it's Saturday. They need to eat and drink.
But building, planting or repairing things? No that's for the 6-day work week.

 

[TMS]

The promise was passed down to Ephraim and Manassas which were the grand children of Israel. That promise never ended and is still in effect. Once the kingdom of Israel was split the 10 tribes were captured and eventual dispersed and many went north and to the west. So the real question is? Are you a part of Israel? and not are you Jewish.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, we are naturalized into the commonwealth of Israel and made one in Him. This spiritual unity transcends all earthly distinctions, making us members of the household of God and heirs to the promises made to the patriarchs.

When we receive the Holy Spirit, we are bound together in a common spiritual brotherhood. In the kingdom of God, social, racial, and gender distinctions do not create divisions. We are all one in Christ.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The title "Israel" is a family name for overcomers. While many rely on physical descent, the Bible clarifies that the true Israel is composed of those who have the faith of Abraham.

Inward Reality vs. Outward Form:

Being a true Israelite is a matter of the heart and the Spirit, not merely physical lineage or outward ceremonies


Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

We are not isolated individuals but are built together into a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices.

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

In the final days, God's servants are identified as the "children of Israel" who receive His seal, representing a people without guile.

Rev 7:3-4
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

By abiding in the Vine, we receive the life-giving sap that makes us fruitful branches, united to the same Parent Stock, which is Christ. John 15:4-5

 

[TMS]

The promise was passed down to Ephraim and Manassas which were the grand children of Israel. That promise never ended and is still in effect. Once the kingdom of Israel was split the 10 tribes were captured and eventual dispersed and many went north and to the west. So the real question is? Are you a part of Israel? and not are you Jewish.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, we are naturalized into the commonwealth of Israel and made one in Him. This spiritual unity transcends all earthly distinctions, making us members of the household of God and heirs to the promises made to the patriarchs.

When we receive the Holy Spirit, we are bound together in a common spiritual brotherhood. In the kingdom of God, social, racial, and gender distinctions do not create divisions. We are all one in Christ.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The title "Israel" is a family name for overcomers. While many rely on physical descent, the Bible clarifies that the true Israel is composed of those who have the faith of Abraham.

Inward Reality vs. Outward Form:

Being a true Israelite is a matter of the heart and the Spirit, not merely physical lineage or outward ceremonies

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

We are not isolated individuals but are built together into a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices.

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

In the final days, God's servants are identified as the "children of Israel" who receive His seal, representing a people without guile.

Rev 7:3-4
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

By abiding in the Vine, we receive the life-giving sap that makes us fruitful branches, united to the same Parent Stock, which is Christ. John 15:4-5

 

[TMS]

Please clearly show your recommendations on how to keep the 4th commandment.
From discussion with you, I don't see your practical recommendations, or anything special.

Love
Love for God is the essential principle.

Love for your neighbour.

Not working or buying or selling.

Doing good kind acts

A time to spend with God and not be distracted by the burdens of every day living.

Read the commandment and ask yourself what can I do to follow these points.

I know that Friday is a preparation day to do things so that they don't need doing on the sabbath.

But be careful that you don't fall into the trap that Israel did.
They made so many rules and burdens for keeping the sabbath so that it became a huge burden and was not a delight...

The sabbath was made for man..

A gift from God.

A delight for me. Time with my brothers and sisters in Christ and time with Christ.

 

[Churchgoer]

I can justify committing murder. Does that mean murder is not a sin?
I can justify theft...
Adultery...
Lying...
Worshiping idols...

The priests of Jesus' day had added so many unbiblical burdens placed on their idea of keeping the sabbath.
Jesus condemned them for placing their own traditions above the commandments.
Are you willing to follow suit? Placing the indoctrinated teachings of your church above what the bible says?

The 4th commandment explicitly states that we are to do our work (our chosen profession - or whatever work we can find) for 6 days (that's Sunday through Friday) and resting on the 7th day sabbath (Saturday today).
If you rest from your labor on Sunday or Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you have already broken the 4th commandment

I understand in today's world many companies do not work on Sundays.
But that does not prevent you from doing work.
Paint your house, mow the lawn, trim some hedges, plant some potatoes, etc.
All those things are still "do thy own work".

Here's a scenario that you may find interesting:

A carpenter makes things out of wood Sunday through Friday. Sells his products for profit. This is according to the 4th commandment.
On Saturdays he enjoys a relaxing day of rest going out on his boat and doing some fishing. It gives him time to admire God's creation and enjoy the wonders of nature. This also is in accord with the 4th commandment.

On the other hand a fisherman goes out Sunday through Friday fishing for profit, to earn his daily bread and pay his bills.
But on the sabbath he enjoys a day of rest with his hobby of making things out of wood.

You see where I'm going with this?
For a fisherman to fish on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the carpenter.
For the carpenter to make things out of wood on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the fisherman.

What the 4th commandment actually says "Do all THY work in 6 days" but to rest from that work on the sabbath.
It is dependent on what that individual's work might be.

In my case, I live on a farm way out in the middle of nowhere. I do all the needed farm work (when I can) Sunday through Friday but on the sabbath farm work is out of the question.
Yes I still need to feed the farm animals (even on the sabbath). But that falls into the line of rescuing an ox out of the ditch. I cannot let our farm animals go hungry or thirsty just because it's Saturday. They need to eat and drink.
But building, planting or repairing things? No that's for the 6-day work week.

But if you repair, build for fun, then it is good?
How about build the church for God, volunteering?
Hahaha

 

[Churchgoer]

I can justify committing murder. Does that mean murder is not a sin?
I can justify theft...
Adultery...
Lying...
Worshiping idols...

The priests of Jesus' day had added so many unbiblical burdens placed on their idea of keeping the sabbath.
Jesus condemned them for placing their own traditions above the commandments.
Are you willing to follow suit? Placing the indoctrinated teachings of your church above what the bible says?

The 4th commandment explicitly states that we are to do our work (our chosen profession - or whatever work we can find) for 6 days (that's Sunday through Friday) and resting on the 7th day sabbath (Saturday today).
If you rest from your labor on Sunday or Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you have already broken the 4th commandment

I understand in today's world many companies do not work on Sundays.
But that does not prevent you from doing work.
Paint your house, mow the lawn, trim some hedges, plant some potatoes, etc.
All those things are still "do thy own work".

Here's a scenario that you may find interesting:

A carpenter makes things out of wood Sunday through Friday. Sells his products for profit. This is according to the 4th commandment.
On Saturdays he enjoys a relaxing day of rest going out on his boat and doing some fishing. It gives him time to admire God's creation and enjoy the wonders of nature. This also is in accord with the 4th commandment.

On the other hand a fisherman goes out Sunday through Friday fishing for profit, to earn his daily bread and pay his bills.
But on the sabbath he enjoys a day of rest with his hobby of making things out of wood.

You see where I'm going with this?
For a fisherman to fish on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the carpenter.
For the carpenter to make things out of wood on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the fisherman.

What the 4th commandment actually says "Do all THY work in 6 days" but to rest from that work on the sabbath.
It is dependent on what that individual's work might be.

In my case, I live on a farm way out in the middle of nowhere. I do all the needed farm work (when I can) Sunday through Friday but on the sabbath farm work is out of the question.
Yes I still need to feed the farm animals (even on the sabbath). But that falls into the line of rescuing an ox out of the ditch. I cannot let our farm animals go hungry or thirsty just because it's Saturday. They need to eat and drink.
But building, planting or repairing things? No that's for the 6-day work week.

Thank you for your explanation.
According to this, most people I know are all keeping the sabbath law, according to you.
They don't work on Saturday, if do, only for fun, emergency rescuing, feeding to prevent hunger....
So that's wonderful according to your definition.
Blessings.

 

[Annnie]

Others have given important components of the biblical response. I offer this: our frail human bodies need rest. We sleep roughly one-third of each day/week/year. God designed this. We also need cyclical rest beyond sleep. The Sabbath (as a principle) is God's provision for this, such that we don't drive our workers, our families, or ourselves to physical breakdown. The principle extends to the land (every seventh year) and to the nation (every 50th year) for debt redemption. At the risk of importing politics, the Sabbath is the original "great reset".

The error made by the "Sabbatarians" is treating the Sabbath like it is still "LAW" for Christians. It isn't. However, there is still truth in the concept of sabbath that is beneficial for us. I suggest you look at your schedule and find a space during each week where you can disconnect from things you "must" do and take time to relax physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually... and invite the Lord into that time and space.

This is hitting it right on the head. May I also, say that what God intended for us to do to experience this wonderful blessing in our lives, is not just because he said so, we rest because we want to enjoy God's goodness in doing this. We already apply this wisdom in living our lives morally by obeying the other 9 commandments and God expects us to do that with the 4th one too. The scriptures in Exodus 20: 8-12 and Deuteronomy 5: 14-15 say nothing about going to church so go and be blessed, do that also, but Saturday, if we obey God, will also be a great blessing to us. If you are obligated to "work" in some way on Saturday, pray and ask God that if He wants you to experience the Sabbath as He has said then He will make the way for you to do that at no harm or expense to you or anyone else.

 

[Gideon300]

This is hitting it right on the head. May I also, say that what God intended for us to do to experience this wonderful blessing in our lives, is not just because he said so, we rest because we want to enjoy God's goodness in doing this. We already apply this wisdom in living our lives morally by obeying the other 9 commandments and God expects us to do that with the 4th one too. The scriptures in Exodus 20: 8-12 and Deuteronomy 5: 14-15 say nothing about going to church so go and be blessed, do that also, but Saturday, if we obey God, will also be a great blessing to us. If you are obligated to "work" in some way on Saturday, pray and ask God that if He wants you to experience the Sabbath as He has said then He will make the way for you to do that at no harm or expense to you or anyone else.

It is obvious from the NT writings that the Sabbath and other Jewish festivals are no longer obligatory for believers. (Colossians 2) "Rest" means different things for different people. For those working the land, physical rest was vital. If someone sits in front of a computer all day, an hour at the gym on Saturday may be the best thing for them.

I was saved in the Military, on a warship. I had no choice but to work as instructed, one time for about 30 days straight. I slept for nearly 24 hours after that. God did not condemn me and there were no health repercussions.​

 

[Gideon300]

Are you a Jew or a gentile?

I do not have Jewish blood but I am a Jew by adoption and through Christ.

I have been grafted into the family.

You can continue to be a gentile and an alien.

Through faith in Jesus Christ, we are no longer strangers, foreigners or servants, but are legally and spiritually adopted into the royal family of the Creator of the universe. This adoption is the result of God's matchless love, bringing us from a state of alienation into a sacred relationship.

Because the human race fell into sin and became "children of wrath," Jesus came to earth specifically to redeem us from the condemnation of the law so that we might be reinstated as His children.

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

It is a marvelous truth that the "Israel of God" is not defined by natural descent, but by a heart connection to Jesus Christ through faith. While the ancient Hebrew nation was chosen to be a witness for God, the Scriptures clearly reveal that the promises made to Abraham are now inherited by all who are "new creatures" in Christ, forming the spiritual Israel that will stand complete at His coming.

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Just as ancient Israel was given the Sabbath as a sign of their sanctification and relationship with God, spiritual Israel today honors God by keeping His commandments and the faith of Jesus. This obedience is the fruit of their righteousness by faith.

Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

What a privilege it is to know that your lineage is not determined by your birth, but by your rebirth in Jesus Christ! By faith, you are part of the true, spiritual Israel, an heir to every promise and a citizen of the kingdom that shall never end.

I'm a Gentile. Spiritually, there is no Jew or Gentile. However, in the natural, the distinction exists. If that was not true, every Christian should move to Israel. In Christ, there is no male or female. In the natural, there is a distinction. In the new heavens and new earth there will be no distinction. We are not there yet.

Christ is my Sabbath rest. If you can find one verse in the NT that imposes the Sabbath on Christians, I will change my mind. You cannot because it is not there.

There is also no record of anyone observing the Sabbath prior to the law. So the argument that God instituted the Sabbath on the day after creation is specious and false.

 

[Davidstarr]

I'm a Gentile. Spiritually, there is no Jew or Gentile. However, in the natural, the distinction exists. If that was not true, every Christian should move to Israel. In Christ, there is no male or female. In the natural, there is a distinction. In the new heavens and new earth there will be no distinction. We are not there yet.

Christ is my Sabbath rest. If you can find one verse in the NT that imposes the Sabbath on Christians, I will change my mind. You cannot because it is not there.

There is also no record of anyone observing the Sabbath prior to the law. So the argument that God instituted the Sabbath on the day after creation is specious and false.

God instituted the sabbath on the 7th day of creation week. (Gen 2:1-3)

And you need to read/study verse by verse, word for word Heb 4:1-11

 

[Dino246]

I can justify committing murder. Does that mean murder is not a sin?
I can justify theft...
Adultery...
Lying...
Worshiping idols...

The priests of Jesus' day had added so many unbiblical burdens placed on their idea of keeping the sabbath.
Jesus condemned them for placing their own traditions above the commandments.
Are you willing to follow suit? Placing the indoctrinated teachings of your church above what the bible says?

The 4th commandment explicitly states that we are to do our work (our chosen profession - or whatever work we can find) for 6 days (that's Sunday through Friday) and resting on the 7th day sabbath (Saturday today).
If you rest from your labor on Sunday or Monday, Tuesday, etc. then you have already broken the 4th commandment

I understand in today's world many companies do not work on Sundays.
But that does not prevent you from doing work.
Paint your house, mow the lawn, trim some hedges, plant some potatoes, etc.
All those things are still "do thy own work".

Here's a scenario that you may find interesting:

A carpenter makes things out of wood Sunday through Friday. Sells his products for profit. This is according to the 4th commandment.
On Saturdays he enjoys a relaxing day of rest going out on his boat and doing some fishing. It gives him time to admire God's creation and enjoy the wonders of nature. This also is in accord with the 4th commandment.

On the other hand a fisherman goes out Sunday through Friday fishing for profit, to earn his daily bread and pay his bills.
But on the sabbath he enjoys a day of rest with his hobby of making things out of wood.

You see where I'm going with this?
For a fisherman to fish on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the carpenter.
For the carpenter to make things out of wood on the sabbath it is a sin but not for the fisherman.

What the 4th commandment actually says "Do all THY work in 6 days" but to rest from that work on the sabbath.
It is dependent on what that individual's work might be.

In my case, I live on a farm way out in the middle of nowhere. I do all the needed farm work (when I can) Sunday through Friday but on the sabbath farm work is out of the question.
Yes I still need to feed the farm animals (even on the sabbath). But that falls into the line of rescuing an ox out of the ditch. I cannot let our farm animals go hungry or thirsty just because it's Saturday. They need to eat and drink.
But building, planting or repairing things? No that's for the 6-day work week.

So... you're a hypocrite. You preach adherence to the letter of the law (as you understand it) but excuse your own violations.

Gee... I'm so surprised.

 

[Churchgoer]

It is obvious from the NT writings that the Sabbath and other Jewish festivals are no longer obligatory for believers. (Colossians 2) "Rest" means different things for different people. For those working the land, physical rest was vital. If someone sits in front of a computer all day, an hour at the gym on Saturday may be the best thing for them.

I was saved in the Military, on a warship. I had no choice but to work as instructed, one time for about 30 days straight. I slept for nearly 24 hours after that. God did not condemn me and there were no health repercussions.​

Agree, for those sit by desk all day, rest means go to forest and chopping down trees, trimming bushes, mowing lawns .....

 

[Churchgoer]

God instituted the sabbath on the 7th day of creation week. (Gen 2:1-3)

And you need to read/study verse by verse, word for word Heb 4:1-11

I am sure Gideon is resting on Saturday based on your resting definition. So all good.

 

[Gideon300]

God instituted the sabbath on the 7th day of creation week. (Gen 2:1-3)

And you need to read/study verse by verse, word for word Heb 4:1-11

Garbage. Tell me one person prior to the law that God told to observe the Sabbath. The Law was for Israel, not for the Gentiles. I won't tell you not to observe the Sabbath. That's your business. But don't try your false doctrine on me. You are wasting your time.​

 

[Gideon300]

I am sure Gideon is resting on Saturday based on your resting definition. So all good.

I'm retired. Resting is pretty easy these days!

 

[Churchgoer]

I'm retired. Resting is pretty easy these days!

If you get tired of doing nothing, on Saturday you can go feed poor, fight fire, help sick, ....that's a rest from doing nothing, and doing good work.

Win win !! Double blessings.

 

[Davidstarr]

So... you're a hypocrite. You preach adherence to the letter of the law (as you understand it) but excuse your own violations.

Gee... I'm so surprised.

That's not what my post was about. And anyone reading, as a reply to a previous post, can see that