LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[homwardbound]

So..basically..salvation is conditional on faith and faithfulness. And it can be lost or maintained through faithfulness of unfaithfulness to the Covenant.

John relates as much in Revelation 17:14 writing "καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτοῦ κλητοὶ καὶ ἐκλεκτοὶ καὶ πιστοί".

either one believes and follows in doing as asked or one says they do and do not
[h=3]Matthew 21:28-31[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. [SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

 

[homwardbound]

Again, in the Epistle to the Church at Ephesus, Paul entreats the saved through Grace by Faith Christians to not take part in the practices of those who suffer the wrath of God lest they sever themselves from the Kingdom of God and their salvation by sin.

if one truly believes in what Christ has done for them via the cross, then I think not in doing those things you have posted.
God is Faithful, and I personally trust God to show me and teach me how to say no to unrighteousness, and be led by father through Holy Ghost consistently 100% daily as I die to self with Christ daily
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead

 

[homwardbound]

This is exactly where we disagree. After 7 chapters outlining the justification salvation we have in Christ through faith, Paul then explains sanctification-salvation, being saved from the power of sin. To not be delivered from the power of sin is spiritual death, not applying the spiritual justification-salvation you have experienced. Obviously a Christian can walk according to the flesh, and this would be death for him, not loss of eternal salvation, but not being saved-delivered from the power of sin, an everyday process that requires walking according to the Spirit.

Paul is talking to justified Christians exhorting them to walk worthy of their calling, to be sanctified. If they don't, they will experience spiritual deadness. This is not eternal death, but living a life that reaps separation from God in the present. That's why he exhorts them to put to death the deeds of the flesh and reap spiritual life, fellowship with the Abba-Father, live out who you are, a child of God and a co-heir with Christ.

Thanks for bringing out that truth, therefore:

[h=3]Romans 6:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

 

[homwardbound]

Again, Christ speaks and warns of the possibility of losing Salvation in parables, saying,

Christ is the deep soil, and Christ is whom I hand my hat on.

 

[homwardbound]

it is funny how some people preach that you cannot save yourself or you cannot make yourself good enough for salvation, it is all by the cross and what christ did it is not what WE do that we receive salvation. BUT they turn around and say you can lose your salvation by SOMETHING YOU DO, now which is it folks? either salvation is only by Jesus blood and what he did on the cross or we can EARN our salvation? you cannot have it both ways.

To believe God or not is the final choice, make it and be whoever you decide with God in God or not.

 

[Lindasue]

What are your views on this matter, if you have time watch the entire video, and if possible give me sum feed back .Thanks i appreciate it and God bless you ,and your Family in Jesus mighty name amen.

[video=youtube;OprnFnUjslA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprnFnUjslA[/video]

Pick up your cross and follow christ

Jesus set examples for all of us to be more like him and spread his word to all mankind. AMEN! By the Grace of God we are saved.

 

[homwardbound]

I think being denied by the lord falls more along these lines. Keep in mind the first verse was in a message to a church:

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 3:5

For whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of this person when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26​

Are we not part of the fellowship of the unashamed, has not the die been cast, the decision been made, that we belief?
Good fellowship here from all, thanks

 

[konroh]

If you don't reign with him, you won't be with him. The only people who are saved and in heaven are those who reign with Him forever and ever.

But that's exactly what it doesn't say! Reigning with Him is not equivalent to being with Him. Reigning with Him is for the faithful believers who endure. It can include reigning in the millenial kingdom, judging angels, being at the right hand of Jesus. All believers in Jesus do not show the same level of faithfulness to Him, some will have their works burned up at the judgment seat of Christ, suffer shame, yet they will still be saved! Others will be rewarded with seeing their works be as precious jewels and being crowned and reigning forever with Christ. The New Testament is filled with examples of reward for the faithful believer in Christ, the one who endures. It's also filled with warning to Christians who are believers in Christ to persevere, apply the truth of the gospel, to be a committed disciple, to live out what you believe. God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

 

[1disciple]

I see no need to post any further in this thread. I've posted many of the scriptures on the relevant subject. If anyone wants to read them, they are available. I leave it up to the invididual disciples free will choice on what they believe. As for myself, I'm content on the issue.

 

[clayservant]

So in other words you can become Unborn again ? like being born into a family but you do something so bad that you become unborn out of that family? is this what I am hearning?

 

[Hizikyah]

Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to
know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."

 

[homwardbound]

So in other words you can become Unborn again ? like being born into a family but you do something so bad that you become unborn out of that family? is this what I am hearning?

When first born here on earth we are born of the flesh, alive to flesh and blood, then comes the Spirit of God and we either are born again, in the Spirit of God by believing God, and are thus dead to flesh sin, and alive to God's Spirit, done through the resurrected Christ.
Therefore we have the war between flesh and Spirit of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to
know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."

The key there is if God permits, we will move on into perfection, maturity in Christ, God receiving all the credit for us doing what is righteous in God through Son, Thanks
And there is no further forgiveness to be executed from God after the cross of Christ.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission

 

[Yury]

Hello everyone! Yep that is the permanent question in christianity of all ages. Unfortunetely I haven't read the whole discussion up here. And it's allready 193 pages. I think it's question really valuable and hard to say definitely otherwise it wouldn't have discussed for so long time.
We even have two opposite biblical systematic teachings that, certainly based on Bible and either of them are built logically very gracefully.


I think that salvation couldn't be lost because:

Rev 3:12 The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God), and my new name as well.


but salvation needed to be aquired:

Phil 2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, continue working out your salvation with awe and reverence,

 

[john832]

Hello everyone! Yep that is the permanent question in christianity of all ages. Unfortunetely I haven't read the whole discussion up here. And it's allready 193 pages. I think it's question really valuable and hard to say definitely otherwise it wouldn't have discussed for so long time.
We even have two opposite biblical systematic teachings that, certainly based on Bible and either of them are built logically very gracefully.


I think that salvation couldn't be lost because:

Rev 3:12 The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God), and my new name as well.


but salvation needed to be aquired:

Phil 2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, continue working out your salvation with awe and reverence,

What happens to one who does not "endure to the end"?

***Too Quick On The Trigger***

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

So if I don't endure to the end, will I be saved?

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

And if I look back with longing, and am not considered fit for the Kingdom of God, will I still be there?

 

[Yury]

What happens to one who does not "endure to the end"?
***Too Quick On The Trigger***
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
So if I don't endure to the end, will I be saved?

I don't know exactly what happens to one who does not endure to the end, but beleive that their destiny in the Caring Hands of God.
And when I wrote those verse from Revelation and one of the pistles I just wanted to show that principiles.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
And if I look back with longing, and am not considered fit for the Kingdom of God, will I still be there?

And I also believe that firstly, besides prophetic shade every Word contain in itself the principles for everyone regardless where considering historical timeline we all lives.

Unfortunately, I can state that today in the Church (at least I can say from russian christian community) very well-established approach to some Scripture, which implies that the Word of God is live and active (Hebrews 4:12) only regarding the framework of the specific time.
Where we are talking about the fulfilled prophecies, I can still agree, separating the principle of what happens through the Word and the more spiritual aspect of the Word, which throughout the history of heaven and earth will always be effective as a person initially, and for all humanity as well (Matthew 5:17-18).

That means that it doesn't matter regarding of what time we're living, nevertheless any word says to us today directly. And the events described those or other character (an image) are able to come into our lives in slightly different forms and images. So we do not know, able to do so and fail the will of God, hidden in His word.
That's why we need to be aware.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What happens to one who does not "endure to the end"?

***Too Quick On The Trigger***

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

So if I don't endure to the end, will I be saved?

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

And if I look back with longing, and am not considered fit for the Kingdom of God, will I still be there?

this speaks of the tribulation period. and the end of the age. Jesus is telling those alive to persever through great tribulation. whoever endures to the end (Christ return) will have their physical life saved.

this has absolutely nothing to do with salvation!

 

[john832]

this speaks of the tribulation period. and the end of the age. Jesus is telling those alive to persever through great tribulation. whoever endures to the end (Christ return) will have their physical life saved.

this has absolutely nothing to do with salvation!

And this is male bovine fecal matter.

 

[Yury]

this speaks of the tribulation period. and the end of the age. Jesus is telling those alive to persever through great tribulation. whoever endures to the end (Christ return) will have their physical life saved.

this has absolutely nothing to do with salvation!

That's what I'm talking about. I don't know why but many of followers define according to their own mindset what is refers to salvation and what is not.

I believe that every single word refers to ours salvation. We just need to know that biseds prophetic aspect every single word contain personal aspect for ourselves.

John 6:63-64a It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”

John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,

 

[Delivery]

You cannot lose your Salvation. And anybody who knows the scriptures and God's plan for man from the beginning to the end knows this. First of all, this debate about once saved always saved or not is really a debate about works vs. grace. If you believe that we're only saved by the mercy and grace of Jesus and because we are forgiven for our sins then you believe that you cannot lose your salvation. but if you believe that you can lose your salvation if you don't do good works and live a godly and respectable life then you believe that we're saved by our works. So, which is right Grace, (you cannot lose your salvation) or works (you can lose your salvation if you don't work hard enough to live a pure and godly life).

Here are some verses on that subject that show us the way of salvation:

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

That last verse indicates that it has to be 100% by Grace or 100% by works. It can't be partly by grace and partly by works as some people teach.

So now that we have clarified the point with scriptures showing that our salvation is only by grace (once saved always saved) not by works (not once saved always saved), we can go on to the next point.

3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The bible teaches us that everybody is a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God. Nobody can be perfect enough to earn or deserve heaven, no matter how hard they try.

14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Since everybody is a sinner then we can only conclude that the only way to get to heaven is by being forgiven for our sins and having righteousness automatically imputed up us by faith. And the only way that can happen is by receiving and believing in Jesus. As the apostle Peter said,

4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Some people say that the doctrine that you can't lose your salvation was cooked up by people who don't want to have to work hard to live a pure and Godly life and to be free to sin. First of all, Salvation is not about being free to sin, it's about being free from sin. Secondly the people who say this are judgmental religious hypocrites who think they are better and more righteous than others.

Since all have sinned that means that the person who is loving and gives to charity and helps people and is always sweet and nice is just as much a sinner as the murderer, rapist, pedophile, etc. But they don't see it. So to put that in perspective, if a person gets saved and has all their sins forgiven but then goes out and lives, what some people would call a sinful life, his sins are still forgiven and righteousness is still imputed upon him by faith. By the same token a person who gets saved and continues to work hard at living a pure and godly life is still just as much a sinner saved by grace as the other person. When it comes to salvation , our actual sins that each of us may or may not be guilty of is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is our faith in Jesus. Our acceptance of Jesus saves us, not our righteous ability to do the right things and be obedient to the rules. Our rejection of Jesus is what damns us, not our sins and disobediences.