Losing Salvation
- Thread starter KenAllan
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If water baptism is needed in order obtain the remission of sins and to have regeneration happen as is falsely taught by some. When did the disciples get water baptized after Christ died on the cross and then was resurrected?
They would still need to have been water baptized after Christ's death and resurrection before they could be regenerated and to receive the remission of sins according to the water regeneration theory.
Even if they were water baptized by John - this still doesn't negate the need to be water baptized AFTER Christ rose from the dead as the "water baptism regenerationists believe" - in order to have remission of sins and to be regenerated. John's baptism was different from Christ's baptism that He gives to the believers.
When Peter said to the whole group of Jews in Acts 2:38...repent and be baptized.....there must have been many of them there that were already baptized by John because it seems that only the Pharisees/Sadducees and scribes didn't get water baptized by John. So, that throws a whole other wrench into the mix here.
There are so many holes in this false teaching about needing to be water baptized in order to receive remission of sins and the regeneration for the Holy Spirit.
This completely violates all the clear, multiple scriptures to believe on Christ to be saved. Look at Acts 10:43-48 - clearly they were saved first and had already received the Holy Spirit - which is being born-again by the Spirit and being baptized into the body of Christ...then they were water baptized.
They would still need to have been water baptized after Christ's death and resurrection before they could be regenerated and to receive the remission of sins according to the water regeneration theory.
Even if they were water baptized by John - this still doesn't negate the need to be water baptized AFTER Christ rose from the dead as the "water baptism regenerationists believe" - in order to have remission of sins and to be regenerated. John's baptism was different from Christ's baptism that He gives to the believers.
When Peter said to the whole group of Jews in Acts 2:38...repent and be baptized.....there must have been many of them there that were already baptized by John because it seems that only the Pharisees/Sadducees and scribes didn't get water baptized by John. So, that throws a whole other wrench into the mix here.
There are so many holes in this false teaching about needing to be water baptized in order to receive remission of sins and the regeneration for the Holy Spirit.
This completely violates all the clear, multiple scriptures to believe on Christ to be saved. Look at Acts 10:43-48 - clearly they were saved first and had already received the Holy Spirit - which is being born-again by the Spirit and being baptized into the body of Christ...then they were water baptized.
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CC's position on Romanism is clear. They do not support it. As long a believers refute error with scripture the enemy cannot prevail.
Only the foolish contend against God. Rest assured that when they think they have outsmarted the bible believers they have truly lost more than they can imagine.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Ho 8:7 For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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PurerInHeart
Guest
Hebrews 2:1-3...
"We MUST pay the most CAREFUL attention, therefore, to what we have heard, SO THAT we do not DRIFT AWAY. For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE IF we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him." Hebrews 2:1-3
This is written to Christians who are already saved, as a warning that they could lose their salvation if they are not careful.
"We MUST pay the most CAREFUL attention, therefore, to what we have heard, SO THAT we do not DRIFT AWAY. For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE IF we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him." Hebrews 2:1-3
This is written to Christians who are already saved, as a warning that they could lose their salvation if they are not careful.
Here's your context
I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
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PurerInHeart
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How does that make no sense? It is scripture. Scripture makes no sense to you? You have no ears to hear or eyes to see the plain truth right in front of you?
At 1st I would agree with you brother, but many wonderful, mature brothers and sisters have helped me to a greater understanding of God's incalculable Grace. And most have managed to do it in such a loving manner. There is fruit in this thread. Peace, love and Grace to you, friend.
yes, but ALL Scripture must be used, not just pluck out verses that back up your thoughts.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....how foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the gospel of the grace of Christ?
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved when we do not factor in the gospel of Christ and what He ahs done for salvation?
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....how foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the gospel of the grace of Christ?
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved when we do not factor in the gospel of Christ and what He ahs done for salvation?
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
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sparkman
Guest
Attached is a document I created on assurance of salvation if anyone is interested.
Regarding the original op's question, I find it bizarre that some groups think you can lose your salvation, yet re-gain it.
It seems like if Hebrews 6 says what they think it says, that would be an impossibility, and that those who lost their salvation have no hope whatsoever. If their view that it is speaking about that is correct, then there are no do-overs.
I do not think Hebrews 6 is saying what they claim it is, though. I just won't spend time arguing with the ones who claim you can lose your salvation.
I am not into fear and condemnation theology. I don't believe that a Christian can do works based on love if losing your salvation is a possibility, with the exception of some Arminians who believe you can intentionally and defiantly choose to walk away. I don't think those individuals necessarily have a fear and condemnation mentality, despite the fact that I disagree with them, but many on the forums do have a fear and condemnation mentality (thinking believers are still subject to condemnation).
Regarding the original op's question, I find it bizarre that some groups think you can lose your salvation, yet re-gain it.
It seems like if Hebrews 6 says what they think it says, that would be an impossibility, and that those who lost their salvation have no hope whatsoever. If their view that it is speaking about that is correct, then there are no do-overs.
I do not think Hebrews 6 is saying what they claim it is, though. I just won't spend time arguing with the ones who claim you can lose your salvation.
I am not into fear and condemnation theology. I don't believe that a Christian can do works based on love if losing your salvation is a possibility, with the exception of some Arminians who believe you can intentionally and defiantly choose to walk away. I don't think those individuals necessarily have a fear and condemnation mentality, despite the fact that I disagree with them, but many on the forums do have a fear and condemnation mentality (thinking believers are still subject to condemnation).
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Gr8grace
Guest
There are also many mature believers here that I have gleaned a lot of wisdom from. Actually, more than any other site I have been on.
If you leave, it is one more voice lost that can POUND the religion out of the few here that push it. These folks need Grace, and need to hear it more than the guy out getting drunk at the pub.
They think they are in the light. And they are the ones who are actually far,very far from the Lord Jesus Christ...............and yes, He wants them saved.
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PurerInHeart
Guest
How does that tie into what Jesus said in your former post? Anyone can post verses without finding the initial meaning and context behind of what was said.
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